[INTJ] Why is INTJforum So Boring?

[Usehername]

also, not very many interesting threads and too much of an accepted atmostphere of discrimination and intolerance of certain groups of people (for my tastes! )

I've noticed this, too.

good points.

...the level of holier than thou-ness on the forums. ...
Those guys seemed almost autistic to me, and I don't think I have ever met anyone that behaved in their manner in real life. I am not saying that people should conform to the norms or anything like that, but I seemed to get an attittude of, I am going to behave opposite of the norm because that is the right thing to do from these people. Maybe I am just being overly enfpish or something of that nature, but their behaviour seemed very fake and more like an enfp smoke and mirror show.

As for Metamorphasis's claim that their posts are too long, I think any Rational, especially the Introverts, can become engrossed enough in their work that they add too much detail and turn off less interested, patient, or concentrating people. Personally, I think getting straight to the point is for most nonformal purposes more effective.

As an INTJ, you should be able to come up with some ideas of your own about how to make it better. One person must take initiative for something to be any good; if you're seeing activity, don't complain about it - do something about it. Throw a load of topics out there that you're interested in, and you'll have swayed the discussion in your favour.

I've registered and TRIED. I posted 70-something times, and a lot of those are topic formations. I do have ideas to make it better, and have even suggested some of them to the admin. I also got a warning for a silly reason; the admin seems very moody in a bad way.

Because there is no diversity. Same at INTPc. "Look at me! No look at meee!"

Yet, INTPc is full of interesting things. Yes, INTJf is a lot younger, but in pure ratios of quality threads, there is no comparison. INTPc doesn't really annoy me--there's crap in there, too, but it's not that difficult to move past it and find the good stuff.

My theory is that many claimed INTJs have Asperger's Syndrome, which seems to cause results around that end of the scale, and is probably due to the unconventionality of their thought patterns vaguely matching ours. They're more prone to long-winded boring esoteric diatribes about some subjects than an INTJ, which could readily explain it. There is also the common false-INTJ, which is actually an ISTJ, which adds a weird dynamic with the high concentration of people with Asperger's. This could easily cause a fact-oriented no-negotiation lecturing style to permeate the culture.

It seems like the forum just lacks a depth of quality. Wolf's ideas of the ISTJs and Aspes being overrepresented is helpful; still, the "tone" of the forum is not something I find interesting.

I also felt like whenever I posted there, no one read my posts; instead, they just skimmed for key words and then began a diatribe with their thoughts that were vaguely related.

The INTJs on this forum meet the descriptions (this one from personalitypage) "Others may falsely perceive the INTJ as being rigid and set in their ways. Nothing could be further from the truth, because the INTJ is committed to always finding the objective best strategy to implement their ideas."
INTJf reminds me of this quote (also there) "When Introverted iNtuition dominates the INTJ such that the other functions cannot serve their own purposes, we find the INTJ cutting off information that it needs to consider. If the psyche is presented with information that looks anything like something that Introverted iNtuition has processed in the past, it uses Extraverted Thinking to quickly reject that information. The psyche uses Extraverted Thinking to reject the ideas, rather than analyzing the information within its intuitive framework, and therefore reduces the likelihood that the framework will have to be reshaped and redefined."

 

[Veneti]

To start, other than what I just looked up on Google I know very little about Normal culture, however, I can tell you that I have ancestry from Ireland that is well documented, and Norse heritage that is for some reason significantly harder to find anything about (Among other European areas such as France, and Germany). From what I just looked up, I would say that it is quite possible that my background is tied into the Norman culture.

I am interested to hear your theory, care to explain?

Well, I won't hijack this thread so I'll speak more in the coming weeks.

Basically, the Normans (North Men) are desendents of the Viking, They teamed up with the Viking to take Britain from the Anglo Saxons in 1066.

You would likely be Viking, if my theory holds, especially if you can trace back to Dublin Ireland and/or can ascertain your surname as being a Viking derivative. (Almost certain the Normans didn't venture to Ireland)

Anyway, Given that the male Y chromosome stays (reasonably) constant through the generations, I do believe that traits (In males) and so forth also pass down this line..

The Vikings/Normans were seriously a very different breed of people. The more you learn about them, the more you'll see that NTJ "8w7" trait line. (The Castles, The Churches, The Crusades, its all there... it wasn't prissy 5w stuff, Lots of J, Lots of NT... and good old fashioned pillaging )

Image:Vikings-Voyages.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[matmos]

You would likely be Viking, if my theory holds, especially if you can trace back to Dublin Ireland and/or can ascertain your surname as being a Viking derivative. (Almost certain the Normans didn't venture to Ireland)

You're theory is an interesting one but has a tiny weakness... You have catagorized a whole people as one type! Quite clearly any self-respecting Viking would have a strong interest in rape and pillage (supplimented by a bit of trade and fishing) - more S than N, more E than I more P than J and probably more F than T!

Lastly, I've known quite a few Scandinavians and there doesn't appear to be any greater concentration of INTJs there than anywhere else IMO. If there were your theory might be worth exploring more. Do you have any figures?

Edit: You'll find the Normans were very active in Ireland: Normans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MerkW]

If I remember rightly your ennegram (sp) is something like mine 8w7, which speaks volumes.... basically all the intjforum people there are 5w types. e.g. ISTJs that have a bit of N and call themselves INTJs.

I do agree with the notion that a large degree of INTJs on INTJforum are in reality ISTJs, yet it is ludicrous to associate that with 5 on the enneagram. 5s certainly have more "intuitive" traits than 8s.

The Vikings/Normans were seriously a very different breed of people. The more you learn about them, the more you'll see that NTJ "8w7" trait line. (The Castles, The Churches, The Crusades, its all there... it wasn't prissy 5w stuff, Lots of J, Lots of NT... and good old fashioned pillaging )

There is no way that the Vikings/Normans had Se as an inferior function. I could see ENTJ in certain situations, but overall, I think ESTP is more apt.

Also, precisely what is this "prissy 5w stuff" that you ever-so-vaguely refer to?

 

[Tigerlily]

Yet, INTPc is full of interesting things. Yes, INTJf is a lot younger, but in pure ratios of quality threads, there is no comparison. INTPc doesn't really annoy me--there's crap in there, too, but it's not that difficult to move past it and find the good stuff.

I'm older and more cynical. Don't mind me.

 

[Totenkindly]

1. They are all concerned with being the "most INTJ" INTJ that the nature of the forum becomes competitive and not helpful.
2. Everyone's posts are way too long to get out a simple point.
3. Everyone thinks all INTJ traits are awesome, even if they are obviously flaws.
4. Everyone feels compelled (as far as I can tell) to show off their wittiness and intelligence every chance they get.

This is why I don't go.

They're not very inclusive either. I saw quickly that any of my contributions would be ignored because I was different. No one was really looking for threads to pick up and chase down; they already possessed invested points of view and just enjoy hearing themselves talk.

(Ah, to sit and stare at one's own face in the shiny water!)

No bust on Jezebel, though. I don't know her well, and haven't been there recently, but she seemed professional and competent enough as an admin and I genuinely liked her as a person.

My theory is that many claimed INTJs have Asperger's Syndrome, which seems to cause results around that end of the scale, and is probably due to the unconventionality of their thought patterns vaguely matching ours....

Well, isn't this ironic? Weren't you pissing and moaning in the "server problems" thread about people speaking out of their ass in ways that sounded like they knew what they were talking about, but to you they were just database n00bs?

Where did you get your psych degree from?

 

[MetalWounds]

Well, I won't hijack this thread so I'll speak more in the coming weeks.

Basically, the Normans (North Men) are desendents of the Viking, They teamed up with the Viking to take Britain from the Anglo Saxons in 1066.

You would likely be Viking, if my theory holds, especially if you can trace back to Dublin Ireland and/or can ascertain your surname as being a Viking derivative. (Almost certain the Normans didn't venture to Ireland)

Anyway, Given that the male Y chromosome stays (reasonably) constant through the generations, I do believe that traits (In males) and so forth also pass down this line..

The Vikings/Normans were seriously a very different breed of people. The more you learn about them, the more you'll see that NTJ "8w7" trait line. (The Castles, The Churches, The Crusades, its all there... it wasn't prissy 5w stuff, Lots of J, Lots of NT... and good old fashioned pillaging )

Image:Vikings-Voyages.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's some really interesting material, I'll have to pick your brain a little later down the line.

In relations to INTJs, I've noticed there is quite a schism between 8 wing and 5 wing INTJs. 5s acuse 8s of really being ENTx, and 8s accuse 5s of being ISTJs. Either way, it's all based on the mentality that the signle greatest insult to an INTJ is to accuse them of not being one.

 

[elfinchilde]

They're insufferable even in small groups...

*a little intp blithely walks in amongst the INTJs to be slaughtered*

Yea. I should imagine INTJs would be even more insufferable in small groups because then, the INTJ command-and-control exerted upon per minion would be greater than if the INTJ got to boss around a big group of minions. From the minion's point of view, spreading the suffering always helps. After all, no one person should havta *suffer* an INTJ alone. That would be so cruel. That's why misery loves company.

INTJs in a mass forum wouldn't survive, because everyone would want to dominate, and no one would want to listen.

INTPs in a mass together would be all "Look at meee!" "what? no one is looking at me? " "well, that's because they're all idiots who can't appreciate my *superior* intellect!* :steam: "

ahem.

*the little intp decides that right now would be an appropriate moment to play possum and lie dead*

 

[miss fortune]

Subjective points of view that have no merit would never be used in our thought processes.

Maybe, as I've seen, your point of view is wrong and beliefs are severely skewed due to utilizing poor and/or biased sources. We don't come to accept a certain way of thinking lightly.

Too much of this attitude over there, which the phrase "close-minded certitude" seems to fit quite aptly

A group of INTJs who wants to interact with other INTJs seems (to me) to be a group of INTJs only interested in becoming more extreme in thier type and rather uninterested in opening themselves up to other viewpoints or thought processes. INTJs who choose to interact with other types sometimes display an interest in learning more about other types and how to interact with them.

I lurk over there occasionally and have an unused account there- unused because I know for sure that my EPness and leftist politics would just be a lightning rod for INTJs who would somehow find me to be what is wrong with society. I'm quite confident that no matter how well thought out and educated any opinion of mine would be it would merely be discounted as "the product of a bogus education". Why? Because apparently anyone with half a mind would agree with them if they had the right facts

Just my observations though

 

[Wolf]

Well, isn't this ironic? Weren't you pissing and moaning in the "server problems" thread about people speaking out of their ass in ways that sounded like they knew what they were talking about, but to you they were just database n00bs?

I answered the problem mentioned, and they went off on unrelated tangents that indicate one was claiming something bogus.

Where did you get your psych degree from?

I don't need one. Many mention they've been diagnosed. There's no way to tell via this medium, though they do possess certain common patterns that can be identified over time. Have you ever seen an argument on en.wp?

 

[elfinchilde]

concur with whatever. personally, for me, because i'm an intp, i try to mix more with other types. Have found that being with other intps tend to reinforce negativity. two negative electron clouds should never be together.

besides, it's more fun and affirming, and instructive, to learn from ALL types, rather than sticking with one type.

Perhaps in the end, the best type to be is XXXX. balanced enough for all of life; the centre of self still being self.

 

[miss fortune]

balance is a good thing- any site that swings too far in one direction or another seems to only end up as potentially harming its members by polarizing them.

^ agreeing with elfie

 

[Veneti]

You're theory is an interesting one but has a tiny weakness... You have catagorized a whole people as one type! Quite clearly any self-respecting Viking would have a strong interest in rape and pillage (supplimented by a bit of trade and fishing) - more S than N, more E than I more P than J and probably more F than T!

Lastly, I've known quite a few Scandinavians and there doesn't appear to be any greater concentration of INTJs there than anywhere else IMO. If there were your theory might be worth exploring more. Do you have any figures?

Edit: You'll find the Normans were very active in Ireland: Normans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course you can say I have categorised a whole people as one type, but your argument is flawed. I am not saying that all Viking/Norman are INTJ 8w. I am saying that INTJ 8w could be residual invader genes. Big difference.

The Vikings that got off their butts and got into ships were a different trait type than those they left behind. Just like immigrant countries have a different outlook and propensity.

In terms of "scientific proof" there is none, thats why the questions are being asked! Also, the plausible reply from my side is supply evidence that refutes my investigation and intuition.

Too many people (especially those indoctrinated by universities) somehow believe everything in life is "true" unless proven with numbers. If it feels right, and it doesn't contradict my knowledge frameworks then it is approximately true until other evidence comes along to change it.

As for the Normans in Dublin. Depends on what you define as material. Prior to 1066 there were not that many Normans in the UK. I also have a feeling that Viking and Norman identities have been mixed, quite possibly Vikings started calling themselves Normans. The Vikings settled in Dublin and may have "hosted" the Normans (To what extent I don't know) and I wouldn't quote Wikipedia as the authoritative guide.

Here's the backup. Hell, "Normans" invaded Ireland 100 years after the battle of hastings... The first Norman knight to land in Ireland was Richard fitz Godbert de Roche in 1167, but it was not until 1169 that the main body of Norman, Welsh and Flemish forces landed in Wexford.

Lastly, given that my ancestry is absolutely Norman (Try looking at the First Secretary of State for England as an example) I am always keen to see if there are other Viking/Norman descendents that can be typed. Just as Blonde hair can show your genetic past, so too can other traits.

 

[Badlands]

I would probably generally agree with Wolf's concensus; I would bet the vast majority of Aspies are Introverted Rationals (I don't think the other way around though). Could you seriously imagine your typical person with Aspergers to be anything else? Introverted, Intuitive, Thinking...

As for the Viking argument, I think the cultural standard the Vikings had was established primarily by NTJs, but the majority were still Guardians, who were heartlessly raping and pillaging because that's what their culture told them to do. The Viking Artisans raped and pillaged because battle was fun and exciting, and Idealists; I'm not sure why Idealists would want to fight Viking-style.

 

[Kiddo]

Subjective points of view that have no merit would never be used in our thought processes.

Maybe, as I've seen, your point of view is wrong and beliefs are severely skewed due to utilizing poor and/or biased sources. We don't come to accept a certain way of thinking lightly.

Wow, so basically your entire argument is an ad hominem and you have the gall to tell me that I'm not objective.

This is exactly why I dislike INTJcentral. Statements like "[your] subjective points of view" and "Your point is wrong and beliefs are severely skewed" just prove my point about how INTJs prefer to insult your ideas rather than intelligently discuss them. Basically the argument is my type of thinking is different than their way of thinking, therefore it must be inferior, "subjective," "biased," and "skewed." It just isn't worth my time to argue against that kind of idiocy.

 

[nozflubber]

INTJs prefer to insult your ideas rather than intelligently discuss them.

It just isn't worth my time to argue against that kind of idiocy.

This kid makes me lol irl

 

[Kiddo]

This kid makes me lol irl

Hey, if he wants to talk about why he perceives my thoughts as, "subjective," "biased," and "skewed" then I'm all for a good discussion. But coming into a thread and making those claims completely unsupported is asinine. At least I had his own words to back up my assertions.

 

[matmos]

If it feels right, and it doesn't contradict my knowledge frameworks then it is approximately true until other evidence comes along to change it.

Bwahahhahahha. "Appoximately true"; love it! (- you are an ENTP!)

Interesting~^. You should perhaps create a new thread if you want to, er, digress? I think the original OP was getting at INTJforum.

I look forward to hearing about your extensive knowledge of Irish history. Early post you claimed the Normans were never in Ireland ["Almost certain the Normans didn't venture to Ireland"] but in a latter you expound fantastical knowledge of their arrival - with dates!

Problem is this: when you mess up basic facts it questions the reasoning of your *theory*.

We wouldn't want to derail things. I'm sure the mods would remove these posts to the new thread if you asked them nicely.

Bit busy. Must trot.

 

[Thursday]

Someone posted that same type forums induce an acceptance of all the qualities as "right"

I say lack of diversity induces sleep and death
some side effects may incur

 

[Maverick]

I can understand that the style of the INTJ forum is an aquired taste and it may seem too cold and boring to some people.

However, there are also many positive points about the forum. I find it to be rather interesting. I don't feel a competitive atmosphere. I think people are just being consistently reasonable to the point of not showing emotion. There's alot of thought provoking discussion going on and most of the posts are of high quality. I think it's a good forum overall.