[NT] Degree = intelligence?

[Robopop]

There's a fine difference between motivation and intelligence, that should say it all as far as I'm concerned.

 

[entropie]

Can you explain that to lowly humans who dont think binary ?

 

[Fluffywolf]

I don't have a degree, I was born this way.

Yup, this is the third time I made this post. But it's worth repeating.

 

[SilkRoad]

I'm an NF, of course but I don't view a degree as an especially major measure of intelligence. Well, maybe to a certain extent. They do generally take time and hard work. But there are so many kinds of intelligence. It would certainly be narrow to look at it in such a way that you MUST have a degree to be "intelligent". Especially because getting a degree has so many financial and other requirements.

I knew a 45 year old who didn't even finish high school, is very intelligent and self-educated in many ways. A good person to have discussions about literature and art and so on with, at least up to a point. However - it was a guy I was interested in, and I also discovered eventually that he was very insecure. I have a bachelors' degree and although I think he was at least somewhat attracted to me, I later realised that there was almost no way he would date a woman who has a lot more education than he does. He's kind of a power/control freak and likes to keep people in inferior/dependent positions. Also, in retrospect, although I liked the fact that he was self-educated in so many ways, and he had managed to become financially successful, I'm not so impressed by the fact that he never went back and at least finished school. I think he had reasons to drop out due to his family being poor and needing to work and so on, but I would view it at least as a positive thing initiative-wise to go back and finish school. With this individual I wondered if it was a sort of reverse snobbery thing where he might consider himself too good for that.

I will say that this (non-)experience made me think a little more in terms of "well, maybe I should think more about dating up or at least on the same level, in terms of education and social class, and do more screening out of guys where I'd be dating down." Frankly, I'm pretty opposed to thinking that way in terms of all people being equal, wanting to avoid snobbery, etc...but it makes me wonder.

 

[scorpiomover]

Piece of paper. Generally, people with degrees are much better at sounding clever, because they learned the jargon. Largely, I found the academic experience quite exposing for people who don't normally think, and quite stifling for people who normally think about everything. Less of a melting pot, more of a factory for intellectuals.

 

[CrystalViolet]

A degree does not necessarily donate intelligence. I have worked with plenty of people who were considered intellectually bright, but couldn't do the simplest of tasks, or follow instructions for that matter. The most intelligent people are the ones who know when to toe the line and when thinking out of box is necessary. These people are rare. They usually aren't the honor students either, in my experience either.
The way I see it, a degree is a societal bench mark, and a base line. All through school and uni, I actually thought I was kinda dumb. Then came one fateful day when I went back to my home town, and I realized that maybe the brainy tag I had been labelled with, was deserved. Why? I met people I had gone to school with, and well some them seemed totally incapable of learning any more. It was like they reached a quota, and I had barely just begun. Those four years formed a divide, that was more than mere intelligence....I think people who have fought to better themselves in any way shape and form would understand this more. It's more about not accepting your lot in life. I say a degree technically means less to, And for those who's families have gone to top ranking uni's for generations, but for some one who scraped themselves through uni, despite being technically from a low socioeconomic background, it speaks absolute volumes about their level of commitment and determination.

 

[SilkRoad]

I say a degree technically means less to, And for those who's families have gone to top ranking uni's for generations, but for some one who scraped themselves through uni, despite being technically from a low socioeconomic background, it speaks absolute volumes about their level of commitment and determination.

I agree with this. I don't think you can just look at the degree in isolation. I am proud of my degree (not massively proud, but still proud) - but everyone in my immediate family went to university (and a great many in my extended family), my parents put money aside so that when my scholarship money ran out they paid my fees, and I lived at home rent-free. I am not a spoiled child or a trust fund kid, but I recognize that this counts as a relatively privileged background and it was a sweet deal as far as being able to concentrate on my studies and do well. I didn't have to have a regular job before finishing uni, though I did some freelance work.

So yeah, I view it as a lot more of an accomplishment for someone from a poorer background, unsupported by a family who encouraged education, who had to work and support themselves the whole time, that sort of thing.

 

[Such Irony]

I partially agree/disagree with a degree correlating towards intelligence. It depends on the degree for one thing. A Ph.D. degree is generally more challenging than a Bachelor's degree so I'd be likely to perceive the Ph.D. as having a higher level of intelligence. It also depends on the program and the institution. Some programs/institutions are more rigorous than others.

Sadly, it is possible in some cases to get a degree without necessarily being very intelligent. There's alot of grade inflation in college and there are people who do cheat their way through.

I know some very intelligent people who don't have a college degree. Some of these people have a love of learning and a dislike of institutions like college. Some of these people self-teach themselves things and know as much or even more in a given field than someone with a degree.

 

[funkadelik]

I don't have a degree, I was born this way.

Interesting!

Would you say you ever feel insecure about that? Do you think you'd ever go get a degree eventually? And, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

What made you decide not to persue a degree? Or was it less a decision and more just what happened in your life? How would you say you are faring in the workforce without a degree?

Hope you don't mind the questions. I'm just very interested.

 

[wildcat]

I understand your viewpoint here but to me what's the point in knowing everything and being qualified in everything if you lack the sense to put it to use. I value uneducated home owners higher than educated bums. I know plenty 'real smart' people who suck at life and 'imaginary smart' mansion owners. Each to their own.

I'm sure there have been a couple of shitty heart surgeons too.

The post below me VV sums up my thoughts on the issue.

I like self-educated bums. They are kind of my kind.
Why you mansion owners call the police when you see one of us in your street?
Do you own the police, too?
Do you own the street?

 

[entropie]

I'll take that as a no

 

[A window to the soul]

You've got to wonder what's wrong with the person that thinks a grade school education and a HS diploma is enough to compete in the real world. For most of you, it's not and you'll be competing for the minumum wage jobs. How much intelligence does that require? Would an intelligent person settle for that? Probably not.

 

[entropie]

You've got to wonder what's wrong with the person that thinks a grade school education and a HS diploma is enough to compete in the real world. For most of you, it's not and you'll be competing for the minumum wage jobs. How much intelligence does that require? Would an intelligent person settle for that? Probably not.

It's exactly like that.

I have the theory that the nerds who get the good jobs easily because they have some qualification, later on tell everyone: it's easy to get a good job you just have to work on your intelligence.
but those people never experienced how it is for 98% of the population who just is not intelligent

 

[ygolo]

Just curious about how everyone here in the NT section views the importance of a university education.

So...if you met someone who hasn't gotten a university degree by, say, age 40 would you think less of them? Would there be a moment where you might consider them to be less intelligent regardless of whether this was the truth or not?

What does a university education mean to you when it comes to your own worth or the worth of another individual?

IDK. I have only know one person without a university degree by the age of 40. I don't think he is less intelligent than others. But he does seem to have a chip on his shoulder regarding people who have degrees, especially PhDs.

A degree generally certifies that you have gone through a certain program and met its requirements. In the U.S. that is a mix a some general knowledge and some specialization in some field for a B.Sc.
From someone who has a B.Sc. in a particular field, I would expect a certain amount of general knowledge, and specific knowledge in the field they got their B.Sc. in.

 

[entropie]

IDK. I have only know one person without a university degree by the age of 40. I don't think he is less intelligent than others. But he does seem to have a chip on his shoulder regarding people who have degrees, especially PhDs.

A degree generally certifies that you have gone through a certain program and met its requirements. In the U.S. that is a mix a some general knowledge and some specialization in some field for a B.Sc.
From someone who has a B.Sc. in a particular field, I would expect a certain amount of general knowledge, and specific knowledge in the field they got their B.Sc. in.

You know only one person by the age of 40 who has no university degree ? Wow you must be living in smartville, where I come from I know only one person who is about to hand in his master thesis next monday

 

[jimrckhnd]

You've got to wonder what's wrong with the person that thinks a grade school education and a HS diploma is enough to compete in the real world. For most of you, it's not and you'll be competing for the minumum wage jobs. How much intelligence does that require? Would an intelligent person settle for that? Probably not.

Not without some serious technical training or perhaps a very high level of self taught skill in a trade or craft. The outlook for the person with just a HS diploma in the US is not very good. Even with a basic BA in a general subject it can be pretty tough to get your foot in the door of that rewarding career.

 

[CrystalViolet]

In my home town, in my year, only 10-15 of us out of a class of three hundred went on to university/higher education. I'm sure maybe a handful more have completed some thing since, so all up maybe 25 if I'm feeling generous, but that's not even one percent. Only one guy that I heard of has done his pHD.
I am of course discounting those, who went on to become carpenters and plumbers etc. Which to be honest would have covered maybe 30%. So just under 70% of my year didn't do more than high school qualifications. All be it this is a good 15 years ago. Looking back it makes me feel greedy that I'm going to do a second degree and hopefully if all goes well my masters and evetually my phD.

 

[jimrckhnd]

Looking back it makes me feel greedy that I'm going to do a second degree and hopefully if all goes well my masters and evetually my phD.

Greedy for punishment anyways . Never reproach yourself for wanting more eduction. Not only is there practical justifications for it, expanding your mind and range of subjects of which one is informed is hardly ever a bad thing.

 

[FDG]

Nope, degrees are just a human invention which is now almost completely disconnected from reality (barring a few disciplines, like applied physics), so they do not prove how well someone can manipulate the environment (I mean positively manipulate - invent something, etc.), which I consider as the ultimate proof of intelligence.

You know only one person by the age of 40 who has no university degree ? Wow you must be living in smartville, where I come from I know only one person who is about to hand in his master thesis next monday

Lol. Yeah, if I consider my hometown, only two of my old time friends and classmates have gotten a master's (me and another one).

 

[Fluffywolf]

Interesting!

Would you say you ever feel insecure about that? Do you think you'd ever go get a degree eventually? And, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

What made you decide not to persue a degree? Or was it less a decision and more just what happened in your life? How would you say you are faring in the workforce without a degree?

Hope you don't mind the questions. I'm just very interested.

Generally no, I'm fine with not having a degree, but it is true that the reason that I decided to work instead of getting a degree has at times been a bit of a proverbial pain in my neck. The family business was in a bad shape when I was 18, after one of the companies went bankrupt, there was a lot of debt to pay up, bank obviously did not want to grant any leniency so both me and my brother started working fulltime in the business to get it back on their feet. We expanded the company in several directions and worked away the void created by the bankrupcy. After that I pretty much stuck with the company, the job is long hours, but it is diverse and always changing and ultimately I think the environement suits me. Even though I used to have different aspirations.

It was a descision to help out my family. Considering I'm in charge of a lot of things here I think I'm doing quite well without a degree.

Do I feel insecure about not having a degree? No, on the contrary. You don't need a degree to be capable. Degrees are not much more than insurances for employers, but what makes a good employee has little to do with degrees. If the person is willpowered to do their job to the best of their ability and has the ability to expand their known boundaries, they can fare well in most any situation without a degree. I am an employer myself, so I don't need to worry about other employers hiring me.

My earlier aspirations were to get into programming. I'm sort of happy I didn't go there. Although it's still a hobby of mine, I couldn't imagine myself doing it fulltime.