[NT] Would an NT ever admit (s)he's of average intelligence?

[INTPness]

lol! Maybe he is just trying to be fun? At least he achieved that. Much better than being a crabby old man no one can stand.

Yeah, he's very fun. I just use it as an example because it's similar to a 65-year-old NT who might think, "I'm ze smartest person in the neighborhood. Everybody should know that! I'm well informed on ALL ze topics and everyone else is ignorant!" Or the 65-year-old NF who thinks they know what everyone is feeling and thinks they can read everyone's emotions and thinks they know what's going on in their neighbors marriages, etc. I have an NF friend who thinks all the men in the neighborhood are unhappy in their marriages because "she can just tell". I think she secretly wants all of them to like her. And I know prudish old NT men who think they know EVERYTHING and everyone else is just plain stupid. Like Cascadeco said, it's too much reliance on one facet of life.

 

[entropie]

Its like the old saying: A persistance in being occupied with oneself and how you are perceived by others, takes away too much time to brush up your math or latin skills

 

[Shade]

What if a person is in denial about their type? For instance, what if a rational has always secretly longed to be popular and outgoing, so they don't develop that facet of their identity even though, truth be told, it's their strong suit? Or does this go against the nature of Rationals.... or maybe all personality types?

 

[entropie]

What if a person is in denial about their type? For instance, what if a rational has always secretly longed to be popular and outgoing, so they don't develop that facet of their identity even though, truth be told, it's their strong suit? Or does this go against the nature of Rationals.... or maybe all personality types?

No longing for skills that you dont have is exactly the nature of a rational. Curiosity and the will to learn are the hallmarks of a rational. It can be difficult tho to admit an inability when its personal, so that doesnt diqualify you as a rational. The people than run around bragging with their IQs aint rationals

 

[entropie]

It's the ability to grow beyond ones own limitations that defines a rational, to grow and to learn. It takes time to learn so it takes time as well to become intelligent. It's highly likely tho that someone who seeks knowledge about life in life, will be intelligent one day and does qualify as a sage. Thats the pure true essence of rationality.

if you are told in school your IQ is through the roof and you are put in an elite school, society is using you as a slave to operate at peak efficiency in their most profitable companies. That is tho not what makes you intelligent. If you can recognize that, then it is that what makes you intelligent.

 

[Antimony]

Because it gives you a wide overview of the different people there are in the world and it equips you with abilities to be able to gain access to just anyone. As opposed to concentrating on only one sole fact of your existence, namely intelligence and singleing out everything that is no match for it.

Really if you go on unimaginative like that, intpeeing on me, I will revoke your entp status

I can be imaginative, but it might be a little bit off the mark I appreciate your explanation.

As another idea: I doubt that there are many, if any, NTs that will admit/say they are unintelligent.

Try getting an NF to say they aren't authentic, genuine, etc. Whether they are or not is irrelevant, it is what they base their sense of self on.

 

[Oaky]

Ah, an interesting read through, this thread.
Little arguments here and there and a few grammar mistakes caught but nonetheless, quite beautiful indeed. I suppose we should first define the word 'intelligence'. 'course that in itself could go straight up to heated angry arguments by people who simply wish not to go near a dictionary.

1.
in·tel·li·gence/inˈtelijəns/Noun
1. The ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.
2. The collection of information of military or political value: "military intelligence".

2.

Definition of INTELLIGENCE

1
a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests)
b Christian Science : the basic eternal quality of divine Mind
c : mental acuteness : shrewdness
2
a : an intelligent entity; especially : angel
b : intelligent minds or mind <cosmic intelligence>
3
: the act of understanding : comprehension
4
a : information, news
b : information concerning an enemy or possible enemy or an area; also : an agency engaged in obtaining such information
5
: the ability to perform computer functions

3.
in·tel·li·gence (n-tl-jns)
n.
1.
a. The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.
b. The faculty of thought and reason.
c. Superior powers of mind. See Synonyms at mind.
2. An intelligent, incorporeal being, especially an angel.
3. Information; news. See Synonyms at news.
4.
a. Secret information, especially about an actual or potential enemy.
b. An agency, staff, or office employed in gathering such information.
c. Espionage agents, organizations, and activities considered as a group: "Intelligence is nothing if not an institutionalized black market in perishable commodities" (John le Carré).

4.
in·tel·li·gence   [in-tel-i-juhns] Show IPA
noun
1.
capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
2.
manifestation of a high mental capacity: He writes with intelligence and wit.
3.
the faculty of understanding.
4.
knowledge of an event, circumstance, etc., received or imparted; news; information.
5.
the gathering or distribution of information, especially secret information.

Th definition we are looking for is:

The ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

The ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria.

The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.

The capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.

In essence these all mean the same thing. With this:

Gaining knowledge of a particular person's psychological state and knowing how to act towards it with regard to your motivations exists within the defined terms of intelligence. Tis nice though that many NTs would fail to do such.

Gaining knowledge of a particular situation and knowing how to act towards it with regard to your motivations exists within the defined terms of intelligence. Tis nice that many NTs tend to fall much better then others in such cases.

Gaining knowledge of a particular person's emotions and knowing how to act towards it with regards to motivations of changing it to adhere to you exists within the defined terms of intelligence. Tis nice though that many NTs would fail to do such.

Gaining knowledge of a particular factual topic and knowing how to use it to act towards situations that call for it exists within the the defined terms of intelligence. Tis nice that many NTs would succeed more in such cases.

Let's start shooting some bullets at the direction of the word 'intellect' eh?

Intellect
1. The power or faculty of the mind by which one knows or understands, as distinguished from that by which one feels and that by which one wills; the understanding; the faculty of thinking and acquiring knowledge.

2. Capacity for thinking and acquiring knowledge, especially of a high or complex order; mental capacity.

3. Particular mind or intelligence, especially of a high order.

4. A person possessing a great capacity for thought and knowledge.

5. Minds collectively, as of a number of persons or the persons themselves.

Ah... droolworthy.

I'd think yes, NTs wouldn't ever admit that they were of average 'definition of intellect' but they have many times admitted they were not very good at particular nodes of intelligence... only paraphrased.

I mean Lex Talionis' little game of trying to convince others with his lack of knowledge and application of persuasion shows in itself that it's not a very intelligent inquisition to partake.

 

[entropie]

I can be imaginative, but it might be a little bit off the mark I appreciate your explanation.

As another idea: I doubt that there are many, if any, NTs that will admit/say they are unintelligent.

Try getting an NF to say they aren't authentic, genuine, etc. Whether they are or not is irrelevant, it is what they base their sense of self on.

Tho in my personal opinion I think thats more a problem in the States, you people seem to have a kinda obsession with intelligence. Where I come from its more a hallmark to say one isnt really intelligent and people who are intelligent are the first ones to say that. its highly unlikely someone would achieve anything here only because he has a high IQ, this society is very oriented towards productivity. If someone for example does carve treehouses in his freetime and already made a bunch, he'll be called "intelligent" or "talented" and be admired. But only good school grades will get you nothing, we dont even have something like a GPA, its an overall more freely system, you still can go to University tho your grades are bad you just have to wait a little longer. The idea behind that is that you do a job education in the mean time and maybe stay there or still go to University and get even better qualified.

System has it downsides tho as well, productivity favors the practical people; theoretical people like artists, writers or people who dont produce anything but plan or lead have lesser reputation.

 

[mrcockburn]

Damn. No such thing as an NT with anything besides sky high self-esteem, is there?

There's nothing about myself that I'm confident about - not at the level everyone here is. I thought non-high self-esteem was more common with people (in general). I say in general because they lack confidence in a quality they most value, and this leads to being displeased with one's entire self as a whole. Actually, I thought that was the rule rather than the exception.

Also, do *all* NTs necessarily prize intelligence over other comparable traits? If an NT prizes creativity most instead, I'd think they wouldn't have a problem being objective about their hypothetically average IQ.

As an ESFP, I don't really care about *fUn FuN fUn!!!1" I definitely prize intelligence above all else.

 

[Beargryllz]

If I say it, I'm being less than genuine

 

[Fluffywolf]

If I say it, I'm being less than genuine

Instead of saying it ungenuinly, we're smart enough to debunk the entire discussion alltogether and come out in the clear anyway.

 

[rav3n]

One question. Why are some non-NTs so fixated on NTs and their intelligence?

 

[Fluffywolf]

One question. Why are non-NTs so fixated on NTs and their intelligence?

As comprehension of higher intelligence is inherently impossible, you should say "and their supposed intelligence".

 

[rav3n]

As comprehension of higher intelligence is inherently impossible, you should say "and their supposed intelligence".

It occurred to me but I decided otherwise due to the nature of this thread.

Or maybe the question should be "What difference does it make if NTs believe they are intelligent whereby some are and some aren't?".

 

[Fluffywolf]

It occurred to me but I decided otherwise due to the nature of this thread.

Or maybe the question should be "What difference does it make if NTs believe they are intelligent whereby some are and some aren't?".

That would definatley be the politically correct question, but since when are politics any fun?

 

[jimrckhnd]

One question. Why are some non-NTs so fixated on NTs and their intelligence?

The obvious barbed joke is pure envy.

But I think the real answer is some combination of: 1) it is that intelligence (or outward manifestation there of) is their most salient characteristic, 2) their intelligence can be a bit mysterious (how often have I been asked: "who talks that way?" or "do you REALLY spend time thinking about things like this?") and 3) intelligence is valued but often mistrusted and is often seen as threatening and/or a proxy for arrogance.

 

[mrcockburn]

One question. Why are some non-NTs so fixated on NTs and their intelligence?

Because you are. (Collective 'you' not necessarily personal)

My job surrounds me with NTs and they constantly sneer at the 'dumb masses' (even the people whose paychecks I sign, lol). And you guys do it online explicitly too.

The only people in my workplace who are even remotely chill are the ESTP, ISFJ and the ENFJ. The other six people are likely NTs and drive me up the fucking wall with their arrogance. Each NT thinks (s)he's smarter than (unbeknownst to him) the other NTs.

It's amusing but fucking annoying. It's not just at work either, but the NTs I befriend in real life are obviously going to be more chill.

I'm not jealous of their delusions. I'm me, and I can only do the best I can.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Because you are. (Collective 'you' not necessarily personal)

But who started it?

 

[rav3n]

My job surrounds me with NTs and they constantly sneer at the 'dumb masses' (even the people whose paychecks I sign, lol).

So why have you hired or retained NTs?

The only people in my workplace who are even remotely chill are the ESTP, ISFJ and the ENFJ. The other six people are likely NTs and drive me up the fucking wall with their arrogance. Each NT thinks (s)he's smarter than (unbeknownst to him) the other NTs.

Two problems. You don't know if they are NTs and are guessing at this. So how would your theory about NTs hold up if one to all aren't NTs? If they are NTs why are there so many being hired? Statistically the number of NTs that surround you don't correlate to the MBTI statistics. Is it possible that you've latched onto an attitude that dislikes certain behaviours which you then attach the NT label to?

It's not just at work either, but the NTs I befriend in real life are obviously going to be more chill.

Once again, more NTs. Why and how do you find them all?

I'm not jealous of their delusions. I'm me, and I can only do the best I can.

We both know this isn't an accurate perception of how you view individuals externally, as it relates to yourself. While it's good that you're moving towards this perspective and deserve a pat on the back for doing so, you're also a competitive and envious individual.

 

[jimrckhnd]

Lots of envy and hostility coming through there.

Remotely "chill"? Well I suppose one qualification for hiring is "who would you rather have a beer with" but that hasn't worked out so well in the (recent) past. And many NTs are actually reasonably laid back. Error in sampling?

"even the people whose paychecks I sign, lol" - oh those stupid old NTs: see, I'm really better than they are.

"I'm not jealous of their delusions" - nah, see its a delusion; they really aren't smart. Interesting how one organization has accumulated a stable of not very bright NTs - statistically unlikely but hey, anything is possible. I’d have a chat with the HR department; something appears amiss in the hiring process.