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[MBTI General] ENxP - T or F?

nicodemus_au

New member
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
9
Hello! It's that old chestnut again: am I an ENTP or an ENFP? I'm leaning to T rather than F, although my behaviour in the last ten years since leaving school has been more F - probably because not having enough stimulation, mental or social, made me depressed and lacking in confidence. The first time I did the MBTI, I got INFP, which didn't seem right; I then tried ENFP, and that seemed better. However, when I read the description of the ENTP, alarm bells rang.

The problem is that I can identify with aspects of both NT and NF. It comes down to this: I'm definitely an "ideas" person; I trust reason more than feelings; and I analyse everything. BUT I want the world to be better than it is, try to be ethical, value compassion (restorative rather than retributive justice), believe that personal decisions have to take people into account, and can react emotionally under stress.

Any help in identifying my type would be appreciated!

Reasons for being an ENTP
I'm interested in knowledge for its own sake, and want to develop my mind and understand the world. I pride myself on my intelligence more than anything else. I don't like being proven wrong or feeling foolish, and will pretend to more knowledge than I have rather than reveal my ignorance. I enjoy debating and discussing ideas; I find it more interesting to talk about an intellectual topic (history, mythology, literature, travel, etc.) than personal matters. I see many different sides of an argument, and will often argue something that I don't believe, to see whether I can.

I need constant mental stimulation; without it, my mind turns in on itself, and I start overanalysing and overspeculating. I'm a natural academic, but worry that it would be too isolated, and am thinking of becoming a teacher instead - which means I get to stand before a class being brilliant and the centre of attention all day, while moulding (warping?) minds and personalities. I have a very strong problem-solving streak - I enjoy writing essays, learning languages, detective stories, adventure games, crossword puzzles, logic problems. I tend to analyse everything: people, fiction, history... If I can't sleep, I analyse literature, history, TV programs from various angles (e.g., the Roman emperors according to MBTI, Dr. Who as Buddhist koans).

I was the school eccentric; I liked being impressive, knew that I was brilliant, and wanted respect, recognition and admiration. I didn't suffer fools gladly, was argumentative and opinionated, and often impatient. I've been accused of having a superiority complex. A friend wanted me to be less critical and arrogant, and much more like an xSFP. I wanted to be W.S. Gilbert. I often played the devil's advocate, tossing out remarks to see how people would react. I wrote a Swiftian Modest Proposal that overpopulation, debt and famine could be ended at one stroke by feeding fat and rich people to the starving masses of the Third World; this so offended a friend that he refused to speak to me for a week, which both amused and irritated me.

Models, theories and systems: would that include classifying history or the arts according to schools, trends, influences, and devising my own note-taking methods for detective stories and computer games?

Emotional outbursts can make me uncomfortable and unsympathetic, and I tend to mistrust / repress my own emotions. I don't understand or like people who take everything personally, over-react, or who feel the need to HATE public figures.

Reasons against
I'm not a mathematician or a scientist. I made a point of detesting maths (partly because my primary teachers had assumed that my language skills were so good that I didn't need maths), but I found maths problems satisfying, worked out short division and the pattern of the multiplication of 11 by myself, did bottom level maths in Years 11 and 12 and got As, and will often find myself doing maths problems in my head. I dropped out of science after Year 10 (had problems with physics), BUT in primary school, I was fascinated by palaeontology and natural history (wanted to be David Attenborough); also interested in psychology, biology, astronomy.

I'm not an entrepreneur.


Reasons for being an ENFP
I'm a humanist - I majored in English and History (currently writing my English M.Phil. on the detective story).

I want to change the world, and make it a better place. I try to be friendly and personable, relate to people on a personal level rather than viewing them objectively (although well aware of their strengths and shortcomings, and I try to understand them), and feel concern for others. I try to be diplomatic (definitely an acquired skill!), and don't like hurting people's feelings. I take some things personally. I am charitable. I've done volunteer work - tour guide at a museum, home tutor to a Sudanese refugee.

Reasons against
I'm not bubbly - enthusiastic, yes, bubbly, no. I have a rather austere side of my nature, and can be quite detached. I will help others without wanting in anything in return, but don't get worked up over their problems, help others so much that I forget about myself, or am more devoted than reasonable. I'm not flirtatious. I don't feel the need to the need to compliment everyone all the time, or be liked by everyone (I probably won't like them either). I don't get the thing about "authenticity" - if anything, I will try on different roles.


Literary tastes
I don't like most of the literary canon - too many introspective character studies (self-indulgent wangst). I don't like books that are nihilistic or depressing. I prefer comic novels (Waugh, Sharpe, Saki, Dahl), Dickens, Dumas, Hugo, Robert Graves, Gore Vidal, Pratchett. I'm addicted to detective stories - I've read more than a thousand, and prefer the "puzzle plot"; style and characterisation are good, but not more important than plot. I like works that have something to say about the world, or that are dramatisations of ideas (Wagner, Shaw, Chesterton). I enjoy Shakespeare, opera, Greek tragedy, and can be deeply moved by them - although when asked by an English teacher to write about how Carmen made me "feel", I gave her a critique of the production, what worked and what didn't. I much prefer Rossini, Meyerbeer, Donizetti and Wagner to the sentimental tearjerkers of Puccini or Massenet.


Values
My view on life is quizzical, and ironically amused. I am witty, love wordplay and puns, and my sense of humour runs to the black or absurd - the Goons, Python, etc.

I am opposed to ignorance (the root of all evil), intolerance and injustice. I believe in restorative rather than retributive justice. I believe that personal decisions need to take people into account, but political decisions need to do what is right, not what is popular. I prefer politicians to be competent rather than try to please everyone.

I try to stick to my principles, although my values are constantly evolving, depending on what I discover. I can be contemptuous / scornful if someone violates my values; e.g., Post-Modernism (against both reason and the individual), religious fundamentalists.

And that's longer than I'd expected to write, but you can put it down to fascination with the all-consuming topic of myself! So am I a "feeling" ENTP or a rationalist ENFP?

Thanks for reading!
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
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5w4
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sx/sp
you are 100% ENFP
 

Rasofy

royal member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,881
MBTI Type
INTP
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5w6
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sp/sx
ENFP. You remind Lord Elfboy. Just not as flamboyant. :newwink:
 

skylights

i love
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Jul 6, 2010
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so/sx
lol, you sound pretty ENTP to me, personally. and probably a 7w8 on the enneagram.

phrases like this:
- "develop my mind"
- "will often argue something that i don't believe"
- "(warping?)"
- "various angles"
- "eccentric"
- "knew that i was brilliant, and wanted respect, recognition and admiration"
- "didn't suffer foolsgladly , was argumentative and opinionated"
- "superiority complex"
- "devil's advocate [...] see how people would react"
- "both amused and irritated me"
- "emotional outbursts can make me [...] unsympathetic"
- "don't get the thing about authenticity"
- "quizzical and ironically amused"
- "ignorance (the root of all evil)"
- "contemptuous / scornful" (you will find ENFPs more confrontational and blunt)

all strongly suggest ENTP to me.* a humanitarian ENTP, certainly, but ENTP nonetheless.

*unless perhaps you are a rare ENFP 5?

I don't like most of the literary canon - too many introspective character studies (self-indulgent wangst). I don't like books that are nihilistic or depressing.

:hifive:

though i will say your post organization is more Te than the standard Ti tl;dr style.
 

Elfboy

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Nov 26, 2008
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your reasons for not being an ENFP are more reasons you're not an ENTP because most of them have to do with not having Fe (group harmony, people pleasing, making others feel appreciated, team spirit, feelings the emotions of others as your own). ENFPs have Fi (values, personal honor, self reflection, internal harmony, justice) the F in ENFP is in many ways grossly misleading
 

redcheerio

New member
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Jun 8, 2011
Messages
912
MBTI Type
ENTP
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You sound like a humanitarian ENTP to me, same as I am. Sometimes I give the impression of being F, but it's more because I've developed that side and am not an extreme T. Like me, you primarily use NeTi, but you also use some Fi and Te in addition to Fe.
 

Xenon

(blankpages)
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Oct 5, 2009
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INTP
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5
From what I read, I am thinking T. A number of the same phrases skylights mentioned popped out for me too. It's been said by a number of posters on here that ENTPs often seem like the most feeler-ish T type.

I do recommend reading more about the cognitive functions Ti (introverted thinking) and Fi (introverted feeling) though, so you can decide which one you identify with more.
 

funkadelik

good hair
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Jan 10, 2011
Messages
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MBTI Type
lmao
I read ENTP, but that probably has something to do with me trying to relate to what you said in order to pass judgment (not the most objective of scenarios).

But as it stands it doesn't seem like you have a very strong argument FOR being ENFP and AGAINST being ENTP. That may or may not be intentional, but you might want to look into why you would skew it that way.

Ultimately it's only YOU who can make the distinction, but try on ENTP. I had thought I was ENFP at the start, but in hindsight I made a very poor ENFP and couldn't relate to many other ENFPs. ENTP fit much better. Maybe it will be for you, too!

Just cause you're a T doesn't mean you don't have values or feelings. Quick question, though: are you values something you've given lots of time and thought towards? Are they less things you feel or more things you've deduced make the most sense? When you violate one of your values do you feel like you've disrupted your personal harmony or like you've just done something stupid, incompetent and meaningless?
 

nicodemus_au

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Jun 13, 2011
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Allegorystory,

I'd say that my values are things I've thought through, and continue to think through. Justice and fair play are important to me, as are honesty and intellectual integrity. I don't think that there's absolute good or evil, and would argue that ethics are situational (which horrifies my religious friends). Ends can often justify the means - I'm fascinated by the concept of (although haven't yet committed) altruistic murder. Cruelty is a different matter, though, particularly when directed against the defenceless; I blew my top when people were throwing rocks at my dog, who was lame to begin with. Although I had every justification for becoming angry, I felt ashamed for losing control.

My father and brother are both very passionate about changing the world and take politics personally - my brother is the social conscience of the family, joins demos, and is doing law to help refugees. I'm pretty apolitical, and don't have any burning desire to build a new heaven and a new earth; I tend to take things as they come, although I'd certainly prefer it if things were fairer. I'm wary of ideologies and isms, because they get in the way of seeing life as it is. As I said, I don't like Post-Modernists or religious fundamentalists (oddly similar in many ways - small-minded and irrational, and seeing their dogma as the only truth), but it's fun to argue with them.
 

nicodemus_au

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Jun 13, 2011
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9
Have you seen my desk? No, I'm pretty sure I'm not J - I'm the sort of person who is still trying to cut 10,000 words out of a thesis the day before it goes to the printers, and thanking my lucky stars that my father's an editor!
 

nicodemus_au

New member
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Jun 13, 2011
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9
Yes, an ENTP with a strong Feeling function seems likely. I've run a few tests, and T is around 60%, F around 40%, so not too far apart. A humanist Rationalist - rather like Dorothy L. Sayers, Oscar Wilde, George Bernard Shaw, Roald Dahl, Douglas Adams, and Caligula. My kind of people!

I went through various books on typology this afternoon. The description in Renee Baron's "What Type Am I?" fits me to an NT. I identified more with Keirsey's description of the NT than with the NF.

I have a hunger to know everything, but never believe that I know enough or that I do what I do well enough - I read lots of history, anthropology, philosophy, comparative religion, psychology, general science, to try to improve my mind.

I am an independent learner, and like to pursue my inspirations, tracking down information until my desire for understanding is satisfied. I'm not a global, skimming learner; I want to master details in all their precision and am almost compulsive in my over-learning. Ever since I was a kid, I've filled exercise books and Word files with detailed information on topics that interested me, from palaeontology and mythology to computer games and opera. I have the need to gain outstanding proficiency in my field (the detective story). I have a filing system in my head, and have somehow memorised (absorbed?) publication histories and characters, as well as various historical dates, significant events and anything else that interests me (and a lot that doesn't). Since the age of 16, I've tracked down original newspaper reviews of thousands of detective stories, many of which I'm not going to read.

I have a questioning, rather sceptical mind. I'm reluctant to accept without question even a widely accepted authority (most critics of the detective story haven't done their research, and so are talking through their hats!). I tend to look for evidence - even in religion. When I became interested in Anglicanism a few years ago, blind faith was not an option; I naturally went looking for information about the crucifixion as a historical event, the authenticity (or not) of the Bible, theological works, and agreed most (but not entirely) with Spong and Dawkins. In the end, I decided that if God existed, s/he/it was too big to be confined to one religion, so became a spiritual humanist.

I'm also quite self-critical and a perfectionist. Because I set high standards for myself, and am a high achiever in academic work, I don't like to make mistakes in front of others, or get bad marks. I expect to learn easily how to do new things, and can feel foolish if I don't.

Work must be interesting and mentally stimulating. I'm in the public service at the moment, which is OK, but rather limited. The most interesting job was a research assistant, writing research papers on current / international affairs, history and Defence, but it was also very isolated (in a shoebox by myself 5 days a week). I've done a lot of program management and grants assessment work, also looking at income support debtors - this affected people directly, but I had no problem making objective decisions based on facts and precedents.

Other traits are definitely F: the search for meaning in life and what is significant to humankind; background in the humanities; creative writing; an instinctive understanding of literature; interested in relating to human beings. (But see the list of writers!) However, I don't think that I'm considerate or empathetic enough to be an NF. I'm neither a Champion for a cause, nor a journalist who needs to be into everything, and I'm not frisky or bubbly - cheerful and enthusiastic, yes, puppyish, no. I'm quite competitive, certainly in academic matters; I don't think that empathic human relationships (although good) or the search for identity are the most important things in the world. And I don't have any desire to be a sage, sitting under a banyan tree, contemplating my navel and going "OM", and saying that the universe is only an illusion. As a kid, I always wanted to be a wizard - and, when I got older, Dr. Who and Sherlock Holmes.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
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Jun 29, 2009
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Did you care about popularity growing up? Even if you don't want to admit it?
 

InvisibleJim

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Nov 19, 2009
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Have you seen my desk? No, I'm pretty sure I'm not J - I'm the sort of person who is still trying to cut 10,000 words out of a thesis the day before it goes to the printers, and thanking my lucky stars that my father's an editor!

It is unlikely that your are ENTP. ENTPs are resistant to Fi. If you are sure you are Fi'ish' you are more likely to be ENFP.
 

redcheerio

New member
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Jun 8, 2011
Messages
912
MBTI Type
ENTP
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E9
It is unlikely that your are ENTP. ENTPs are resistant to Fi. If you are sure you are Fi'ish' you are more likely to be ENFP.

I don't think everyone fits the theoretical function order perfectly. I'm ENTP and I use a bit of Fi. I think he is similar. It's possible one or both of us is ENFP, but it seems unlikely to me.

People can also be affected by family and close friends they grew up with, which I would think could have some effect on functional development, n'est-ce pas? <shrug>
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
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ENFP
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784
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sx/sp
i still don't know if my ex...who i knew inside and out... was entp or enfp...i really don't. i would say entp who used fi instead of fe...but it doesn't really work like that supposedly...

but there are many things about your post that remind me of him....and...i'm leaning entp with you too.
 
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