[MBTI General] ENFPs think they're so smart

[Amargith]

Actually, it's their native tongue, ime

 

[InvisibleJim]

apparently even if you hit an INTJ over the head with sarcasm he/she won't realize it.

We only laugh at funny jokes.

 

[violet_crown]

Can't we be both? Just remember: (1) people are sought out for a variety of reasons; and (2) one person's minutia is another's critical detail (e.g. see A Life for a Comma.)

I was ready to relent on this, because, honestly, it doesn't get more pitch perfect than a giant picture of Anusol to close a conversation. But your post hits on my real issue with this whole ENFP/INTJ thing. The Fairy Princess/Ice Prince myth that underlies this whole thing just strikes me as flawed. I mean, maybe some INTJs are reserved and surly to protect an inner vulnerability only to be shared with a chosen few. And maybe some INTJs are reserved and surly because theyre just reserved and surly assholes. I was merely trying to point out that if a girl feels the need to take shit from a prince that may never come it seems arbitrary to limit themselves to INTJs.

A great case in point of this was your decision to casually piss on ohd1122's comment. Maybe you did because you are a complex and reserved butterfly, and maybe you did it cause your kind of a dick. It's as ridiculous for me to assume the former as the later based on some poorly grounded fantasy I hold about your inner workings.

 

[Edgar]

We only laugh at funny jokes.

... and the misfortune of others

 

[Thalassa]

These photographs make me feel very sad.

 

[Coriolis]

The Fairy Princess/Ice Prince myth that underlies this whole thing just strikes me as flawed. I mean, maybe some INTJs are reserved and surly to protect an inner vulnerability only to be shared with a chosen few. And maybe some INTJs are reserved and surly because theyre just reserved and surly assholes. I was merely trying to point out that if a girl feels the need to take shit from a prince that may never come it seems arbitrary to limit themselves to INTJs.

A great case in point of this was your decision to casually piss on ohd1122's comment. Maybe you did because you are a complex and reserved butterfly, and maybe you did it cause your kind of a dick. It's as ridiculous for me to assume the former as the later based on some poorly grounded fantasy I hold about your inner workings.

I agree, for the most part. The myth you cite is a gross and at times counterproductive generalization, just as your question ("When the hell did INTJs become . . . ") presents a false dichotomy. My point is that we are all more complex than that. INTJs tend to have some attributes that can be off-putting. We have others that are useful, and desirable. Each person we meet can decide for him/herself where the balance lies, whether the minuses are outweighed by the pluses, one of which might be that we put up with his/her foibles. We are thus not either/or, but both/and.

And you are quite right not to assume my motivations in answering ohd1122. Vala seems to understand, but that is a Fairy Princess trait.

 

[skylights]

guys, guys! mechwarrior. i was trying to think of the name of that game a week or so ago. my dad had mechwarrior 2 on the giant family pc and i used to play it all the time. i always fought as clan wolf... liked the summoner, timber wolf, nova cat, warhammer iic, dire wolf. that was like... what... the mid/late 90s? i must have been like 10 and playing freaking mechwarrior. and need for speed ii. and doom. and myst. and...

nerrrrrd

ENFPs think they're so smart

...well. yes.

It's not as if we're impossibly cold to the point we don't open up to anyone ever. We're just selective.

you keep telling yourself that, kid.

just kidding. we know though. it's not that we earned some power. it's that we know how selective you are and we like that you chose us. and we're good at making people happy, so that's our sparkly magic power. but we don't earn that from conquering your icy little hearts, we have that inside to begin with. don't flatter yourself too much.

also, sorry about the boom-boom.

Did I miss something? When the hell did INTJs become these incredibly eligible, sought after, unicorns of masculine achievement? Last I checked they were still 'sperging bastards willing to fight to the death over what the rest of the world would rightfully consider minutia. I mean, what the hell?

ENFPs: there is a whole world of men out there who are both overrated and willing to be completely emotionally unavailable to you! I swear to you. Have faith and maybe someday, I dunno, some humble ISTP will be oblivious to your emotional needs in favor of his motorcycle. A nice ENTP boy could make you jump through increasingly zanier hoops only to blow you off for someone newer, hotter, and cooler. Or an INFJ could just ignore you all together as a part of some epic P.Diddy-style, mind-fuck and you'd never even know. You can't know if you don't try.

In conclusion, I leave you with this George Michael classic as a soundtrack to your journey towards something different, and-- dare I hope?-- douchier than the OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ISHYtccEs0

you do realize that posting something like this to an ENFP just makes us like INTJs more. it's like you're issuing a challenge. INTJs suck, why don't you like one of these other better types instead, enfp: INTJS ARE FUCKING GREAT AND I'LL PROVE IT

also it reeks of being jelly, but whatevs.

ENFP UPGRADE

GO AHEAD
SHOOT
YOU CAN'T, YA BIG SOFTIE

or you can, and we use our magic rainbow shield then envelop you in hugs.
you win either way.

 

[violet_crown]

I agree, for the most part. The myth you cite is a gross and at times counterproductive generalization, just as your question ("When the hell did INTJs become . . . ") presents a false dichotomy. My point is that we are all more complex than that. INTJs tend to have some attributes that can be off-putting. We have others that are useful, and desirable. Each person we meet can decide for him/herself where the balance lies, whether the minuses are outweighed by the pluses, one of which might be that we put up with his/her foibles. We are thus not either/or, but both/and.

I understand you. However, by your logic any comment which didn't attempt to perfectly capture the nuance of the INTJ would be invalid. Opinions are dichotomous by their very nature. They insist that something is x, and thus not y. This obviously would be magnified in a rant. My intention in my original comment was not to give an in-depth analysis of INTJs; it was to make fun of you guys and your fetishization by the Idealist crowd.

And you are quite right not to assume my motivations in answering ohd1122. Vala seems to understand, but that is a Fairy Princess trait.

Oh Coriolis, you big charmer, you.

 

[InvisibleJim]

I understand you. However, by your logic any comment which didn't attempt to perfectly capture the nuance of the INTJ would be invalid. Opinions are dichotomous by their very nature. They insist that something is x, and thus not y. This obviously would be magnified in a rant. My intention in my original comment was not to give an in-depth analysis of INTJs; it was to make fun of you guys and your fetishization by the Idealist crowd.

Nonsense. Infact he stated quite the opposite. Did you read his post?

Also opinions are not dichotomous they follow a bell curve or log normal distribution (if they are composite) or bimodal if they are highly polarizing.

 

[entropie]

A nice ENTP boy could make you jump through increasingly zanier hoops only to blow you off for someone newer, hotter, and cooler.

 

[FunnyDigestion]

my favorite thing about an ENFP is when they grow a little goatee & the INTJ becomes the DJ

goin for an instant replay as the police fall heavy to the duo like a chevy as they run back to get their gun black & drum backs to spit their gum back

 

[Ginkgo]

That'd assume I had no choice in the matter which is incorrect. I think that rule should be aimed more at the INFPs as we don't tend to get our twangers out in public where as they create entire threads dedicated to theirs.

I have no regrets.

 

[Thalassa]

ENFP UPGRADE

GO AHEAD
SHOOT
YOU CAN'T, YA BIG SOFTIE

or you can, and we use our magic rainbow shield then envelop you in hugs.
you win either way.

If there was a like button I would click it.

 

[violet_crown]

Nonsense. Infact he stated quite the opposite. Did you read his post?

You know what, Jim. I reread the post and believe there was a misinterpretation on both ends.

My original post was not saying that it was impossible for INTJs to be fabulously wonderful guys if they possessed certain negative traits. My point was that this idealized image of INTJs that seems to be floating around lately has seemed to have glossed over the negative entirely. Coriolis' post that any individual simultaneously possesses neg/pos attributes and has to be understood as the amalgamation (balance) of those is essentially hitting on the same issue, but in an admittedly more constructive way. So, scrap my last post.

Also opinions are not dichotomous they follow a bell curve or log normal distribution (if they are composite) or bimodal if they are highly polarizing.

I'd love for you to show how one persons opinion on a single subject can have a distribution of any sort.

 

[InvisibleJim]

I'd love for you to show how one persons opinion on a single subject can have a distribution of any sort.

Opinons shift over time. They are not static phenomenon.

 

[Amargith]

I agree, for the most part. The myth you cite is a gross and at times counterproductive generalization, just as your question ("When the hell did INTJs become . . . ") presents a false dichotomy. My point is that we are all more complex than that. INTJs tend to have some attributes that can be off-putting. We have others that are useful, and desirable. Each person we meet can decide for him/herself where the balance lies, whether the minuses are outweighed by the pluses, one of which might be that we put up with his/her foibles. We are thus not either/or, but both/and.

And you are quite right not to assume my motivations in answering ohd1122. Vala seems to understand, but that is a Fairy Princess trait.

I so found my new subtitle!

Note: I know Coriolis a bit, so when od made her joke, Coriolis replied in typical INTJ style humor, not meaning it in the least, just playing along. Due to the text format of the forum and the fact that (and i'm guessing here) she doesn't know him yet, she wasn't able to pick up on his tone

guys, guys! mechwarrior. i was trying to think of the name of that game a week or so ago. my dad had mechwarrior 2 on the giant family pc and i used to play it all the time. i always fought as clan wolf... liked the summoner, timber wolf, nova cat, warhammer iic, dire wolf. that was like... what... the mid/late 90s? i must have been like 10 and playing freaking mechwarrior. and need for speed ii. and doom. and myst. and...

nerrrrrd




...well. yes.





you keep telling yourself that, kid.

just kidding. we know though. it's not that we earned some power. it's that we know how selective you are and we like that you chose us. and we're good at making people happy, so that's our sparkly magic power. but we don't earn that from conquering your icy little hearts, we have that inside to begin with. don't flatter yourself too much.

also, sorry about the boom-boom.

you do realize that posting something like this to an ENFP just makes us like INTJs more. it's like you're issuing a challenge. INTJs suck, why don't you like one of these other better types instead, enfp: INTJS ARE FUCKING GREAT AND I'LL PROVE IT

also it reeks of being jelly, but whatevs.

ENFP UPGRADE

GO AHEAD
SHOOT
YOU CAN'T, YA BIG SOFTIE

or you can, and we use our magic rainbow shield then envelop you in hugs.
you win either way.

LOL

It's amazing how you can be so sweet and serene, and wise in some posts and go fullblown Ne when you get a chance


Alright, I don't wanna ruin anyone's fun but I'd like to clear up that this thread was born out of me prodding the INTJ OP with a stick. I repped him that his three reasons why people hated INTJs in this thread didn't apply to ENFPs due to his second bullet point underneath. After that, we had nice little banter session back and forth where I challenged him to verify with his fellow INTJs the exact effect an ENFP could have on an INTJ (and vice versa).

The result was that he felt I was being a smart-ass..which I was.

*tags a onto Uncommonentity's back and runs*

As for skylight's remark on being challenged by INTJs, I'll add one more thing:

INTJs are supposedly not interested in people at all and get easily annoyed at them. Getting a smile out of them costs actual effort. How can you resist trying to make 'em grin against their will?

Noting cuter than seeing that stern look desperately trying to stick around while that grin starts emerging...and nothign more fun than seeing that befuddled and annoying look on their faces when they realize that they're not going to stop the annoying human in front of them from affecting them.

Ok, time to run and hide





*giggles*

 

[violet_crown]

Opinons shift over time. They are not static phenomenon.

One's opinion and the evolution of that opinion are not one and the same. A person's opinion is their belief about a given topic. They can either believe something about a particular thing, or they can not believe it. An opinion can incorporate alternative viewpoints, but on the whole it has to assert that things are or are not a particular way or its not an opinion. It can fall on a distribution with relative to other opinions, but it in and of itself is a static point.

This is my opinion on opinions. Knowing nothing else about how I've felt about opinions in the past, or will feel about opinions in the future please show me how this idea can have a distribution of any sort.

 

[Zarathustra]

One's opinion and the evolution of that opinion are not one and the same. A person's opinion is their belief about a given topic. They can either believe something about a particular thing, or they can not believe it. An opinion can incorporate alternative viewpoints, but on the whole it has to assert that things are or are not a particular way or its not an opinion. It can fall on a distribution with relative to other opinions, but it in and of itself is a static point.

This is my opinion on opinions. Knowing nothing else about how I've felt about opinions in the past, or will feel about opinions in the future please show me how this idea can have a distribution of any sort.

That is quite possibly the most Te-dom opinion I've ever heard...

Now I understand a little bit more why Simulated World talked about Te being so static, while Ti is fluid.

Being a rather heavy Te-user myself, I thought what he was saying was retarded, cuz my opinions are definitely not static, and I'd argue that they're actually more fluid than most NTPs'.

Perhaps what Kalach has been saying is accurate: the dominant is so present in every aspect of our processing that every other function is richly colored by it. This would explain why I feel much differently about this topic than you: my opinions are more thoroughly painted with Ni (which is, undoubtedly, more fluid than Te [and probably any function -- which is why I thought Sim's statement was retarded in the first place], so even though my thoughts often "wreak of Te" [Oro's wording, I believe ], because of the constant Ni base undercoat, they're almost necessarily gunna be more flexible [on average] than an ENTJ's).

Oh, and the above was, in addition to its immediate purpose, meant to be viewed as a sort of meta performance art display as to how opinions can be seen as existing on a spectrum/distribution...

For Te-dom's who might need help to understand the nuance: (See how my perspective shifted just a bit, but not entirely, from one place [on the spectrum/distribution] to another [but not all the way from one side to the other]...?) I think Jim can honestly say what he said (cuz I hold the same opinion) because he has a richer Ni base undercoat than your typical ENTJ will have.

 

[InvisibleJim]

This is my opinion on opinions. Knowing nothing else about how I've felt about opinions in the past, or will feel about opinions in the future please show me how this idea can have a distribution of any sort.

I recommend you improve your memory, only then will you see the potential truth proposed.

One knows how one regarded a topic and how it changes as new information becomes available just as feelings for people, objects, etc. change as new experience is gained. No man is an island and hence the quandary of INTJ chronic observation. The only way to hold onto the self is to maintain your own unique perspective; otherwise you wake up tommorrow and nothing remains of the curious inquisitor who found out these useful things to begin with.

 

[Zarathustra]

Oh, and not to quote myself, but...

...

Oh, and the above was, in addition to its immediate purpose, meant to be viewed as a sort of meta performance art display as to how opinions can be seen as existing on a spectrum/distribution...

For Te-dom's who might need help to understand the nuance: (See how my perspective shifted just a bit, but not entirely, from one place [on the spectrum/distribution] to another [but not all the way from one side to the other]...?) I think Jim can honestly say what he said (cuz I hold the same opinion) because he has a richer Ni base undercoat than your typical ENTJ will have.

...as for spectrums and distributions:

- opinions exist on a spectrum relative to other opinions at any one point in time.

- however, over time, as Jim said, opinions shift/evolve; and, over time, they might even shift and evolve back to where they were before. As such, over time, a probability could be figured out as to where on the spectrum one's opinion might land at any one point in time. And spectrum + probability = distribution.