[ENTJ] ENTJ's; how do you defend yourself against your supervisor "The ISTP's?"

[Ezra]

^^ All very interesting discussion, I had no idea you two knew so much about socionics/MBT theory

It has been clearly demonstrated that Electric knows next to nothing about socionics, and has his feet, mind and views clearly rooted in MBTT.

If you're an ENTJ, your supervisor is the ISTP. according to socionics...

Please refrain from using the four-letter type code to describe relationships in socionics. It only confuses people. If you have to use it, like so many amateur socionists do, you can differentiate between the MBTT type and the socionics 'counterpart' by converting the J or P into a lower case j or p e.g. the ENTJ would 'become' an ENTj. Many people claim they're the same thing, but if you study socionics, you eventually see how they're quite different. Some types bear resemblence e.g. the ESI and the ISFJ look similar. (The interesting thing is, their functional ordering is different. If it retained the functional ordering when being 'converted' to socionics, it would actually be an SEI (ISFp).) And it by no means means that you can't be a different type in each theory.

You don't know anything about the MBTI.

/mean ISTP

a) who are you talking to?
b) what does "/mean ISTP" mean?

 

[Electric]

Ezra I think you're probably a LIE in socionics. You should explain why you believe you're an estp and not entj in socionics.

If you look at socionic's view on an ESTP's functions it's quite contradictory towards Jungian ENTJ.

However, if you really want to end this discussion on a bad note. You can always reacuse me of not knowing my stuff.

 

[Electric]

Well, didn't that backfire. That's not a description of an ESTP. That's a description of an SLE. One of things I don't agree with in socionics is the usage of the four-letter type code, which only aids fools like you to completely misinterpret socionics as an Eastern, communistic, cheap rip off of the more globally accepted and praised MBTT. Truth is, if you truly took the time to study the theory, I think you might actually develop not just an appreciation for it, but a preference.

Oops thought you were comparing the ESTP and ENTJ there. The ESTP does actually use eight functions in MBTI. Perhaps you could be specific in what you mean?

MBTT also condones this practice, evidently. Do you agree with that?

Well, I said I wouldn't trust celebrity profiling. Not necessarily the theory behind the process.

Reinin and Gulenko are examples of socionists. Aushra Augustinavichiute used Jung's original functions and put her own (better, IMO) unique spin on them. It was unfortunate that MBTT came before socionics, because socionics is a far more viable and logical theory. There are the intertype relationships, which MBTT doesn't have (or at least originally didn't). These are the basis of socionics. A lot of people at the16types.info forum try to persuade me that there's no practical value in MBTT, and I search ruthlessly for evidence that there is. So, I get criticised by idiots like you for studying a perfectly acceptable and superior theory, while attempting to defend MBTT from individuals on that forum who see no use in the theory.

I'm more of an Jungian theory advocate here. MBTI and Keirsey are just elaborations of the theory that precedes it.

 

[AliceofMerion]

ISTP lacks the ability to see the forest, only being able to see trees. Hence the reason why they tested as an "S." They also live in the present where you operate in the future and past.

An ISTP will stand over you and annoy you because they do not see things getting immediately accomplished. They are prone to get stressed out and throw a fit if they see daily work piling up as well. They are a doer and need to see immediate results. The problem is that they often work harder and not smarter where an ENTJ will put in the time to exert minimal effort and have the maximum result. They don't notice your legwork. They are just focusing on the stuff piling up on your desk.

An ENTJ should never be their administrative assistant or any role that takes care of their daily details. Instead you should aim for more of an advisory roll that helps them with the long range planning that they cannot seem to master. Be more project oriented too. An ENTJ has an organizational bird's eye view where they can make predictions years out. An ISTP can make predictions about 1 month or so out. ENTJ's put together systems that will be implemented in the future. Today an ISTP will wrestle with why they hired you because they aren't seeing that immediate ROI. Therefore they tend to micromanage the NT's. This is the major difference between you and your supervisor and also why they won't leave you alone.

They will not know how much they NEED you until you get fed up with them and leave. You, the ENTJ were the one that steered the ship. They put the crew into action. Without you their ship will never sink but it just will stay docked never really going anywhere in the long term. They don't really look to the horizon, just the water.

Hopefully this makes sense. With a doer and a planner you two would make an unstoppable force. My suggestion is to delegate your day to day responsibilities to another SP doer type and once he sees the stack of files get smaller he will smile and you will love life again. Then months out he will notice your systems and think you are amazing.

 

[chegra]

Why is an ENTJ even working with a istp?
Man i dont even know any istp

 

[FDG]

I don't really remember ever having problems with ISTPs. I mean, if they're more competent than me in what we're doing, I'll let them do the stuff. It's ESTJs those I have serious problems with.

 

[LeonardoLestat]

probably somehing I expect an ENTJ would try to do to get a rise out of me.

I'd probably massage their buttocks just to get a get back at them, especially their women since their asses are steel.

haha - i like to greet people by hitting them but i dont push it

istps are fun but if an istp supervisor hates the entj.... well

 

[LeonardoLestat]

ISTP lacks the ability to see the forest, only being able to see trees. Hence the reason why they tested as an "S." They also live in the present where you operate in the future and past.

An ISTP will stand over you and annoy you because they do not see things getting immediately accomplished. They are prone to get stressed out and throw a fit if they see daily work piling up as well. They are a doer and need to see immediate results. The problem is that they often work harder and not smarter where an ENTJ will put in the time to exert minimal effort and have the maximum result. They don't notice your legwork. They are just focusing on the stuff piling up on your desk.

An ENTJ should never be their administrative assistant or any role that takes care of their daily details. Instead you should aim for more of an advisory roll that helps them with the long range planning that they cannot seem to master. Be more project oriented too. An ENTJ has an organizational bird's eye view where they can make predictions years out. An ISTP can make predictions about 1 month or so out. ENTJ's put together systems that will be implemented in the future. Today an ISTP will wrestle with why they hired you because they aren't seeing that immediate ROI. Therefore they tend to micromanage the NT's. This is the major difference between you and your supervisor and also why they won't leave you alone.

They will not know how much they NEED you until you get fed up with them and leave. You, the ENTJ were the one that steered the ship. They put the crew into action. Without you their ship will never sink but it just will stay docked never really going anywhere in the long term. They don't really look to the horizon, just the water.

Hopefully this makes sense. With a doer and a planner you two would make an unstoppable force. My suggestion is to delegate your day to day responsibilities to another SP doer type and once he sees the stack of files get smaller he will smile and you will love life again. Then months out he will notice your systems and think you are amazing.

Perfect plan.

Only thing that could stop it from working: the ISTP taking it all too personal.

PS: I like working with ISTP's, they are good people to work with. No bullshit, and some jokes on the side to lighten the tension

 

[jixmixfix]

ISTp is the ENTj supervisor. I agree I find Entj's too easy to pick on. They are quite the "nerdy and clumsy" type imo.

 

[Stanton Moore]

Hpw do I protect myself from ENTJ's?

 

[violet_crown]

I ignore them.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

The idea of this thread is almost ridiculous, but I've been under the same circumstances. Someone has bullied me.

Well, I don't know what's happened but nothing like that goes on anymore. Perhaps I've learned how to establish my boundaries. I must say that the unintelligent, physically hardest people are the most difficult to attend to. But, they can be managed as well. In my opinion it's just a matter of personal influence: learning to show what one is capable of.

If it's any consolation, I consider the ISTP type the ultimate wannabe bully. Not that everyone with that description would be a bully. But.. they are very capable of using their bully stance, if they choose to do so .. and even the strong sometimes have hard time with that.

What's the essence of ISTP bullying, in my opinion, is just hitting someone with a baseball bat or with a sharp thing and not listening to sense. That's what ISTP bullying is all about.

Things that scare such bullies are determined looks, sharp eyes, raised fists, looking like you know your shit, baseball bats in the neck, bullets in the knee and such.

In all reality, the situation where anyone has bullied me for any length of time is so far beyond me I don't even know how to imagine it. I might not realize what's it all about anymore.

Edit: in mere bullying, no-one goes as far as to use baseball bats or bullets to the other person. It's done with something less than that. The ISTP-like bullying almost seems like a bounds-and-borders-establishing procedure sometimes. As in, I try to kick this person this much. He kicks me back this much. Hence, the boundaries of our ass-kicking are set at this point.

 

[Entropic]

Wat?

I think you have a bad idea of what it means to be an SLI.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

What the fuck is an LSI? SLI, whatever. In any case, if you have trouble understanding written text, try to take the text more figuratively, use broad interpretation and try if it makes sense. Repeat until you understand. I dont think you tried.

 

[JClassic]

ISTP's don't like commitment and get bored easily. If I spot an ISTP at work chances are they will come to work late and get fired or just quit. I will just wait it out.