[ENTJ] ENTJs Dutch Uncle?

[MoneyTick]

I am under the impression that ENTJs are stereotypically perceived as being the finest example of abrasiveness, intimidation, argumentativeness, and assertiveness at its most fierce magnitude. It is presumed that ENTJs have an eternal itch for debate and lean on the edge of their seats with an impatient yearning for an opportunity to deeply criticize.

Simply put, ENTJ is a four letter abbreviation to mean specifically Dutch uncle.

However, I don't meet the foregoing criteria. I'm very agreeable and like to maintain harmony. Certainly, I can painfully engrave my opinions with a verbal chisel into the minds of my peers, or emerge as a catholic school nun armed with a wooden ruler to agonizingly scold any unwarranted words that come out of my friends' mouths ... but why would I want to?

If you don't have to go to war, why give up the Corona in your hand for an M-16? Why sweat blood and bullets with suicidal and psychotic Taliban's in 100 degree weather, when you can choose to deeply unwind in a tropical and breezy island with a purple-stained panorama of a sunset to look forward to?

The same applies for arguments and debates. If its not work-related, or threatening my welfare - why not just throw them the bone?

Acting on a "debative" impulse, without any need to, is not logical or necessary. If I'm a leader of a group and things need to get done, they better get done quickly before the speeding train of my wrath arrives to wreck through any lingering bullshit. At work, I am a seasoned pilot of pushing people's buttons to get what I want and could be considered the modern day Michelangelo of character sculpting. Have you ever had a Dutch boss? If you ever did, a tempered Irish mouth can begin resonate more like dialogue from a childrens book when compared to the roar of an angry corporate lion.

I can easily champion any debate, but why not utilize more constructive and fun-loving verbiage in casual dialogue? When hanging out with friends after a long day, wouldn't it be more stimulating to "have-fun" and joke around - as opposed to exhausting you energy further by shoving irate commands down others' throats?

If you knew me outside of my professional career, you would consider me the most friendly, agreeable and open minded person you've met.

I don't like starting debates unless its in the context of work or my personal finances, and would rather enjoy the savory Corona over a few jokes than have my mouth blasting hard-to-swallow counterpoint bullets like a machine gun. Nor would I want move to Amsterdam with my nephew and chase fiery-debates to become fully certified in argumentology and obstinate studies because debates are just that fun.

I can't fathom how people arrive at the verdict that ENTJs are the at pinnacle of criticism and admonition; do we appear to act that way, but just completely oblivious of it?

Is our friendly manner just considered ENTJs on their best behavior? Personally, I certainly don't consider myself to fit the stereotypical definition.

Can any of you others harmonize?

As you may have noticed, I love to ask tons of questions. Heck, half of post is comprised of questions used to get my point across. I ask questions everywhere I go and to whomever I meet. I can burn out your brain and leave you in a state of complete confusion and loss of identity after a quick one minute interview. Just staring at someone would immediately impose a quizzical look on their face hahah. Are questions a good way of getting a questionable point across? (Trick question courtesy of me having to many Coronas) Hahah yea, I had way to many. I'll probably end up editing this in the morning. Good Night!

 

[Ginkgo]

I am under the impression that ENTJs are stereotypically perceived as being the finest example of abrasiveness, intimidation, argumentativeness, and assertiveness at its most fierce magnitude. It is presumed that ENTJs have an eternal itch for debate and lean on the edge of their seats with an impatient yearning for an opportunity to deeply criticize.

Simply put, ENTJ is a three letter abbreviation to mean specifically Dutch uncle.

However, I don't meet the foregoing criteria. I'm very agreeable and like to maintain harmony. Certainly, I can painfully engrave my opinions with a verbal chisel into the minds of my peers, or emerge as a catholic school nun armed with a wooden ruler to agonizingly scold any unwarranted words that come out of my friends' mouths ... but why would I want to?

If you don't have to go to war, why give up the Corona in your hand for an M-16? Why sweat blood and bullets with suicidal and psychotic Taliban's in 100 degree weather, when you can choose to deeply unwind in a tropical and breezy island with a purple-stained panorama of a sunset to look forward to?

The same applies for arguments and debates. If its not work-related, or threatening my welfare - why not just throw them the bone?

Acting on a "debative" impulse, without any need to, is not logical or necessary. If I'm a leader of a group and things need to get done, they better get done quickly before the speeding train of my wrath arrives to wreck through any lingering bullshit. At work, I am a seasoned pilot of pushing people's buttons to get what I want and could be considered the modern day Michelangelo of character sculpting. Have you ever had a Dutch boss? If you ever did, a tempered Irish mouth can begin resonate more like dialogue from a childrens book when compared to the roar of an angry corporate lion.

I can easily champion any debate, but why not utilize more constructive and fun-loving verbiage in casual dialogue? When hanging out with friends after a long day, wouldn't it be more stimulating to "have-fun" and joke around - as opposed to exhausting you energy further by shoving irate commands down others' throats?

If you knew me outside of my professional career, you would consider me the most friendly, agreeable and open minded person you've met.

I don't like starting debates unless its in the context of work or my personal finances, and would rather enjoy the savory Corona over a few jokes than have my mouth blasting hard-to-swallow counterpoint bullets like a machine gun. Nor would I want move to Amsterdam with my nephew and chase fiery-debates to become fully certified in argumentology and obstinate studies because debates are just that fun.

I can't fathom how people arrive at the verdict that ENTJs are the at pinnacle of criticism and admonition; do we appear to act that way, but just completely oblivious of it?

Is our friendly manner just considered ENTJs on their best behavior? Personally, I certainly don't consider myself to fit the stereotypical definition.

Can any of you others harmonize?

As you may have noticed, I love to ask tons of questions. Heck, half of post is comprised of questions used to get my point across. I ask questions everywhere I go and to whomever I meet. I can burn out your brain and leave you in a state of complete confusion and loss of identity after a quick one minute interview. Just staring at someone would immediately impose a quizzical look on their face hahah. Are questions a good way of getting a questionable point across? (Trick question courtesy of me having to many Coronas) Hahah yea, I had way to many. I'll probably end up editing this in the morning. Good Night!

How long did it take you to write this post? Lol.

 

[Ginkgo]

I am under the impression that ENTJs are stereotypically perceived as being the finest example of abrasiveness, intimidation, argumentativeness, and assertiveness at its most fierce magnitude. It is presumed that ENTJs have an eternal itch for debate and lean on the edge of their seats with an impatient yearning for an opportunity to deeply criticize.

Simply put, ENTJ is a three letter abbreviation to mean specifically Dutch uncle.

However, I don't meet the foregoing criteria. I'm very agreeable and like to maintain harmony. Certainly, I can painfully engrave my opinions with a verbal chisel into the minds of my peers, or emerge as a catholic school nun armed with a wooden ruler to agonizingly scold any unwarranted words that come out of my friends' mouths ... but why would I want to?

If you don't have to go to war, why give up the Corona in your hand for an M-16? Why sweat blood and bullets with suicidal and psychotic Taliban's in 100 degree weather, when you can choose to deeply unwind in a tropical and breezy island with a purple-stained panorama of a sunset to look forward to?

The same applies for arguments and debates. If its not work-related, or threatening my welfare - why not just throw them the bone?

Acting on a "debative" impulse, without any need to, is not logical or necessary. If I'm a leader of a group and things need to get done, they better get done quickly before the speeding train of my wrath arrives to wreck through any lingering bullshit. At work, I am a seasoned pilot of pushing people's buttons to get what I want and could be considered the modern day Michelangelo of character sculpting. Have you ever had a Dutch boss? If you ever did, a tempered Irish mouth can begin resonate more like dialogue from a childrens book when compared to the roar of an angry corporate lion.

I can easily champion any debate, but why not utilize more constructive and fun-loving verbiage in casual dialogue? When hanging out with friends after a long day, wouldn't it be more stimulating to "have-fun" and joke around - as opposed to exhausting you energy further by shoving irate commands down others' throats?

If you knew me outside of my professional career, you would consider me the most friendly, agreeable and open minded person you've met.

I don't like starting debates unless its in the context of work or my personal finances, and would rather enjoy the savory Corona over a few jokes than have my mouth blasting hard-to-swallow counterpoint bullets like a machine gun. Nor would I want move to Amsterdam with my nephew and chase fiery-debates to become fully certified in argumentology and obstinate studies because debates are just that fun.

I can't fathom how people arrive at the verdict that ENTJs are the at pinnacle of criticism and admonition; do we appear to act that way, but just completely oblivious of it?

Is our friendly manner just considered ENTJs on their best behavior? Personally, I certainly don't consider myself to fit the stereotypical definition.

Can any of you others harmonize?

As you may have noticed, I love to ask tons of questions. Heck, half of post is comprised of questions used to get my point across. I ask questions everywhere I go and to whomever I meet. I can burn out your brain and leave you in a state of complete confusion and loss of identity after a quick one minute interview. Just staring at someone would immediately impose a quizzical look on their face hahah. Are questions a good way of getting a questionable point across? (Trick question courtesy of me having to many Coronas) Hahah yea, I had way to many. I'll probably end up editing this in the morning. Good Night!

How long did it take you to write this post? Lol.

 

[MoneyTick]

How long did it take you to write this post? Lol.

I mustered it up in less time than it took you to read it. hah

 

[sciski]

I respect and like the ENTJ I know irl. He sounds similar to your description, especially in the way he discerns between an appropriate time to kick ass and a time just to let things go. I wouldn't say he's 'the most' friendly, agreeable and open-minded guy--though he is friendly, agreeable and open-minded.

But then again, I happen to be in the group of people he respects, so he always treats me well. The people he doesn't respect--well, they get baited and have their buttons pushed and I will occasionally admonish him for it, and he'll say they deserve it, and I'll shake my head and sigh (but have to admit that they often deserve it). Again, he has the insight and discernment to pick his battles, and enough heart to back off if the other person is truly taking it badly, which is why I still respect him though others will be crying out that he's a meanie.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

Shhhhhh. Now everyone is going to call you a feeler

 

[INTPness]

I don't doubt that ENTJ's are nice and enjoyable people to be around. I know I have fun and enjoy the ones that I've been around. I see it like this: T-doms can really rub people the wrong way. The T function is honest, outspoken, critical of obvious errors in judgment, tells it like it is, calls people out on their B.S. (and there's a LOT of B.S. going on in this world) - so when the T-dom does this, it can seem excessive or too harsh to others, who are not T-doms. I find that a lot of people don't speak up for themselves in this world. They are sad, frustrated, angry, feel taken advantage of, etc, but they just take it. So, just like you, I'm very capable of being a friendly person who is laid back and fun to hang out with. But, when I speak with my T, it sometimes does cause problems and looks of horror on the face of others. To me, I'm just calling things as I see them, but to others, I'm sometimes being abrasive. I've had many people tell me, "I was thinking exactly what you said, but I would have never said it" - and that's reassuring to some degree - because it lets me know that I'm not completely off-base in my assessments. I'm just willing to voice it, while others may not be as willing.

IME, if you don't voice your T in this world, people will walk all over you. They really will. Not everyone will. But, many will. And you'll find yourself in compromising positions, giving more than you ever wanted to give of yourself, being a doormat, controlled by the whims of others - you start to lose some control of your own life. You are the captain of your ship - don't let anyone else gain control of the wheel.

In summary, I'm a fun-loving guy and fairly easy to get along with. Pretty darn flexible. But if I start to feel compromised, I'm going back to "old faithful" - my T function. I'm putting down my Corona, and I'm taking up my M-16. Like you said, I don't want to do that - why would I? I want peace to prevail. But, if you really start to step on me or get out of line - I won't hesitate. I'll get my message across very clearly - sometimes too clearly - and that's where others see T-doms as abrasive - because it's a dead-honest assessment and it forces you to look at yourself in the mirror and it exposes B.S. for what it truly is - B.S!

 

[rav3n]

Hey MoneyTick, it was once explained to me as a comparative. Would you say ENTJs are relaxed, fun loving individuals compared to most other types? How about an ISFP?

 

[FunnyDigestion]

Lol, that was pretty amusing.

Drink some whiskey & post something.

 

[MoneyTick]

Lol, that was pretty amusing.

Drink some whiskey & post something.

That's such a great idea!

Okay, I'm popping open a bottle of that Laphroaig Irish scotch tomorrow night after I get back from work.

FunnyDigestion, this next one is all for you ... Give me a pointless thesis and watch that scotch work it

 

[FunnyDigestion]

FunnyDigestion, this next one is all for you ... Give me a pointless thesis and watch that scotch work it

How about (going by your signature here) methods of utilizing chaos in one's leadership style--meaning, not only managing it, but also using it to one's advantage... is it possible? How could it be done? Has anyone, leader or otherwise, ever stepped onto its battlefield & lived to tell the tale?

 

[FunnyDigestion]

^ omg, does anyone realize what a genius thing I've just done here... we're about to get a free leadership seminar, a DRUNK leadership seminar... has this ever even happened before??

 

[FDG]

Even this thread of yours, where you're trying to convey how relatively relaxed and nice you may be, comes across as extremely intense. It's easier to accept who you are, rather than writing walls of texts.

 

[INTPness]

Even this thread of yours, where you're trying to convey how relatively relaxed and nice you may be, comes across as extremely intense. It's easier to accept who you are, rather than writing walls of texts.

Cut him some slack. He was drinking when he wrote it.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

Well, don't listen to all of them Moneytick. I liked what you wrote, and related.

<pats drunk's back>

 

[MoneyTick]

Just came back from the office.

I really need to blur out the engraved imagery of red and green stock quote listings in my head, so I'm going to ask the bartender for some Icelandic Brenevin.

I'll try to not deplete my energy, so that I can make it to my keyboard with sufficient mental agility to compose FunnyDigestion's requested seminar on chaos.

The title of the dissertation will be:

CHAOS: The turmoil that keeps your candle burning all night long

Let's hope that espresso doesn't run out for him

 

[MoneyTick]

How about (going by your signature here) methods of utilizing chaos in one's leadership style--meaning, not only managing it, but also using it to one's advantage... is it possible? How could it be done? Has anyone, leader or otherwise, ever stepped onto its battlefield & lived to tell the tale?

Chaos is what thrives beyond the precincts of your quiet walls, in those many cities that emerge as trafficated ant-hills scattered across the world laden with the keen scent of diesel fuel and those anxious broken murmurs of a busy crowd. The hallmark of Manhattan is just that, a congregation of many diverse people, interests, cultures, and opinions of which are forced to coalesce in a minute spot on the map. Large cities are a testament to the value of chaos, wherein the collision of culture, style, creativity and ideas become the catalysts for productivity and the exciting conception of new innovations.

Our own realities can sometimes become a stage for dramatic and fast-paced events to transpire; causing us to lose much needed sleep over the many brightly illumed windows of concern engraved on our mental skyscrapers. Like a city that never sleeps, our minds never do either. We process information in the unconscious, which is manifest during the figments of imagination in sleep and dreamy illusions. Chaos, even in the tranquility of sleep, is prudently at work.

Chaos is merely a cognitive dissonance, where information becomes so voluminous it can be perceived as unfathomable. It breaks down an environment, and revokes its identity – which introduces the opportunity to rebuild it from converting the noise of information and diverging ideas into innovative solutions.

During the panic of the early nineteen hundreds, Jay Pierpont Morgan (who had the most influential voice in business) was credited for averting an impending financial crisis by gathering all of the prominent businessmen and executives for negotiation. JP Morgan had specifically selected his yacht, the Corsair, as the venue for negotiation. The Corsair set sail with the men on board in the assembly room debating important matters and proposing remedies for urgent economic issues. Shortly afterwards, JP Morgan stood and declared that no man would leave the room or set foot on solid ground until a collective solution was announced. He then locked the door of the assembly quarters, and left them alone to proceed with their deliberation.

The fiery debate continued into the night, and when they realized they could not leave the vessel until a decree was reached – they collectively bargained a concluding verdict. The decisions of America’s historical executives made aboard JP Morgan’s Corsair on that day had sufficed to prevent a terrible economic disaster.

Hence, chaos is the disorder of musical tone that is orchestrated into a truly original melody. The adrenaline of organizing chaos is a rush that electrifies your mind with vigor and creativity. It is the fabric of innovation, where monotonous threads of varying colors are uniquely intertwined to comprise the framework of innovation and ingenuity.

So that was a brief synopsis of chaos after treating myself to a few shots of Icelandic Brenevin. Hey! Maybe I'll quit working so hard an recite poetry on the streets of Iceland one day. I'll only accept alcoholic currency, as in one shot per verse and a glass for a stanza. No, I'm not a poet - I'm just a drunk hedge fund guy who has gone mad by the red and green flashing of stock quotations and calls to my Hong Kong equity broker which have been lost in translation. Well, I don't even know what I'm saying anymore, It’s already 3:24AM and I’ve got to hit the sack before my sleep deprivation derails my train of thought and the Brenivin further erodes my cognitive dexterity. To: Funny Digestion - Leadership style? I’ll leave that for the Laphroaig Irish scotch that's on my menu for tomorrow. …. Good night!

 

[FunnyDigestion]

Chaos... cannot be understood, therein lies its power: its strength is that of unpredictability, surprise, & freedom... to move in the world of chaos, which is our world, is to be aware of your limits of understanding: your ignorance, lack of knowledge, & finally lack of total control..

But, on to the next topic: Leadership, or, doing what others are unwilling to do... a mixture of blazing the trail which others follow, guiding others thru uncertain terrain, as well as sending people down their own trail when the time is right, based on their own unique abilities, in pursuit of a greater goal... I, personally, have no interest in leadership except in situations that demand it of me, the life-threatening, perilous situations that only seem to arise in books & movies-- how, then, does a person like me incorporate the strategies of leadership into my daily life?

 

[INTPness]

Hence, chaos is the disorder of musical tone that is orchestrated into a truly original melody. The adrenaline of organizing chaos is a rush that electrifies your mind with vigor and creativity. It is the fabric of innovation, where monotonous threads of varying colors are uniquely intertwined to comprise the framework of innovation and ingenuity.

This, my friend, is why you are an ENTJ and I am an INTP. You guys are the masters of this - "organizing chaos". If an organization were in disarray, I want a well-rounded, seasoned ENTJ at the helm of the ship. INTP's, in contrast, simply want to engage in original thought. Things that have never been thought before, and then bringing structure and coherence to those thoughts. But, extroverting those original thoughts, or - more accurately - leading others with those thoughts, is not the focus of the INTP. I believe the INTP can influence, teach, write, explain, offer new perspective, and encourage, but organizing chaos and bringing order to that which is not in order, is why ENTJ's exist. It is the advantage that Te has over Ti. Ti has its own benefits and advantages, but what you describe here is Te at its best.

 

[funkadelik]

Well, I just thought I'd mention that my ENTJ step-father is Dutch so a Dutch Uncle is, in my life, a very apt description.

He's a bit of a poet as well. Not in the conventional sense of bards and the like, but he writes like you. It's not emotional, but it's can have a lot of feeling. And it's always very eloquent.

It's interesting because you CAN see in him this intimidating General who likes order and wants to conquer the world (the stereotype). He is that, in a sense, but there's so much more than that (isn't it like that with us all?).

He's one of the most agreeable, affable and sweet people I know. Sometimes he can be argumentative and intimidating and bull-headed, but when it comes down to it, he's very open minded and would rather make love, not war (to be cliché).

Anyway, I admire him a lot. I would love to have an ENTJ on my team any day.