[MBTI General] Are NTJs more like NFPs than NTPs?

[Thalassa]

How noble of you Some of my professors insisted that I couldn't talk to them outside of class... such weirdos.

I'm not sure if it's noble or just self-protective. It just doesn't seem sensible.

Oh he was cool. He made a lasting impression on me. Sometimes things are good as what they are.

 

[esidebill]

I'm not sure if it's noble or just self-protective. It just doesn't seem sensible.

Oh he was cool. He made a lasting impression on me. Sometimes things are good as what they are.

I had one professor like that. Then I found out he was fired because he was gay and openly hit on some students.

 

[Thalassa]

I had one professor like that. Then I found out he was fired because he was gay and openly hit on some students.

Oh man that sucks. I guess professors have to be careful even if they're working with adults and not minors. :/

 

[esidebill]

Oh man that sucks. I guess professors have to be careful even if they're working with adults and not minors. :/

Sexual preference aside, he was my favorite math professor. Shame... brilliant guy too.

 

[Anew Leaf]

it seems to me that NTJs are really more like NFPs than they are like NTPs and NFPs are more like NTJs than NFJs. do the NTJs (and NTPs) on this forum agree with this?

I agree with you not.

Ne and Ni are like languages. NPs all speak Ne, and conversely all NJs speak Ni. I get connected and along with NPs at the drop of a hat, regardless of whether they are T or F. I still get along with NJs, but it isn't nearly as magnetic as the NP connection is. I often have a hard time even deciphering if an NJ is actually an NJ and not an SJ. I usually have to get to know them fairly well before I can really figure it out. NPs - it's like spotting a toupee on a guy who has blond hair but has insisted that his hair cap be neon blue.

 

[Engineer]

I agree with you not.

Ne and Ni are like languages. NPs all speak Ne, and conversely all NJs speak Ni. I get connected and along with NPs at the drop of a hat, regardless of whether they are T or F. I still get along with NJs, but it isn't nearly as magnetic as the NP connection is. I often have a hard time even deciphering if an NJ is actually an NJ and not an SJ. I usually have to get to know them fairly well before I can really figure it out. NPs - it's like spotting a toupee on a guy who has blond hair but has insisted that his hair cap be neon blue.

This, to some extent. It's more like NFPs are the only extroverted type (aside from the rare skilled NTP) that can lure NTJs out of their shell. And it's because they speak that different language. I totally don't understand it, it frustrates me, but it's attractive and I want to understand more, so I go out and see what the fuss is about.

When I talk with other NT/SJ people, though? It's like a button clicks. We (generally) understand the subtle meanings, the rules, how to interact appropriately, and will hit it off. Granted, some can be confusing, but I feel like I speak their "language" better than that of NFPs.

 

[Elfboy]

I agree that Ne is like it's own language (lord knows there are a ridiculous number of communication errors between myself and my INTJ best friend) but NTJs and NFPs seem to be more similar internally and value the same things (as InvisibleJim stated, it's probably Fi/Te)

 

[skylights]

i think i made this same statement in a thread about NFJ/NTPs... but i think that when it comes to behavior, all Ps are going to be more alike, but when it comes to the ways in which we conceive our judgments, NTJs and NFPs are often more alike - the Te/Fi connection. but that's true in particular for INTJ/ENFP, because our Te and Fi are in the 2nd and 3rd order, and then just switched. whereas it's a bit farther from INFP FiNeSiTe to ENTJ TeNiSeFi.

what that translates to IRL is that an INTJ and i are more likely to agree in an intellectual debate but an INTP and i can both hang out in a really messy room without experiencing a high level of cognitive dissonance

 

[Elfboy]

i think i made this same statement in a thread about NFJ/NTPs... but i think that when it comes to behavior, all Ps are going to be more alike, but when it comes to the ways in which we conceive our judgments, NTJs and NFPs are often more alike - the Te/Fi connection. but that's true in particular for INTJ/ENFP, because our Te and Fi are in the 2nd and 3rd order, and then just switched. whereas it's a bit farther from INFP FiNeSiTe to ENTJ TeNiSeFi.

what that translates to IRL is that an INTJ and i are more likely to agree in an intellectual debate but an INTP and i can both hang out in a really messy room without experiencing a high level of cognitive dissonance

actually, most of the INTJs I know would find having a messy room completely inconsequential. this goes back to my last post about NTJs and NFPs frequently agreeing on what is important STJs will pretty much organize everything, INTJs only organize things that are important, which is usually organization of more theoretical constructs and implementation plans. the archtype of a mad scientist studying manically for days without sleep with a messy desk who all of a sudden bounces off the wall at a new discovery is an INTJ or INFJ

 

[Engineer]

actually, most of the INTJs I know would find having a messy room completely inconsequential. this goes back to my last post about NTJs and NFPs frequently agreeing on what is important STJs will pretty much organize everything, INTJs only organize things that are important, which is usually organization of more theoretical constructs and implementation plans. the archtype of a mad scientist studying manically for days without sleep with a messy desk who all of a sudden bounces off the wall at a new discovery is an INTJ or INFJ

This is true. Or we practice the "disorganized order" method. My room is a complete mess, but I know where everything is at all times. It's more appealing when it's clean, to be sure, but I still don't freak out about the messes.

 

[Coriolis]

That sounds more like my INTP SO. To me, clutter and messiness is the visual equivalent of noise. Yes, I can ignore both when I am intently focused on something, especially when I am in someone else's space. But mess/noise in my own space feels very uncomfortable, and it is hard to relax in such a setting.

 

[slowriot]

I agree that Ne is like it's own language (lord knows there are a ridiculous number of communication errors between myself and my INTJ best friend) but NTJs and NFPs seem to be more similar internally and value the same things (as InvisibleJim stated, it's probably Fi/Te)

what that translates to IRL is that an INTJ and i are more likely to agree in an intellectual debate but an INTP and i can both hang out in a really messy room without experiencing a high level of cognitive dissonance

EDIT FOR INVISIBLEIJIM:
I have to disagree with these points. First off corelating values/ethics/morals as cognitive processes is wrong. They have very little to do with types. (I do understand skylights may not have said this directly, but bare with me) How the different cognitive processes word their conclusion might be very different even if their aim is the same. Like a marksman can stand in many angles but still hit the same spot. That dont mean you as a Fi user are more likely to agree with a Te user in a debate. You may have a slightly better chance understanding the words, but may disagree with the aim.*

I may morally and internally agree more with a Fi user than a Fe user and dont understand how the Fe user could ever think or behave in such a manner. Why would you think that type means behavior and ethics/morals? Its cognitive processes to generate the input you recieve and then communicate it out, not your whole consciousness. They may be support for how you rationalize but is not the deciding factor for the choices you make in life.

* = Basically communication and understanding how to speak to others, so to be better understood, is learning how to listen and understand the other person. Every type is able to do so and understand any other cognitive process if they actually take the time.

 

[InvisibleJim]

cognitive processes have very little to do with types.

My head just exploded.

 

[INTPness]

My head just exploded.

That was his intent. Game over.

 

[InvisibleJim]

That was his intent. Game over.

Damn. Forgot to quick save.

 

[slowriot]

My head just exploded.

awwwww aint that sad, kitty cant read properly

 

[Engineer]

cognitive processes have very little to do with types.

My head just exploded.

awwwww aint that sad, kitty cant read properly

Damn it, here we go again...
Jim, you just do not get along with INTPs, do you?
These constant skirmishes you get yourself involved in, to me, are funny; mainly because my sister is an INTP and we get along just great. I wonder if it's the the type (or flavor, if you will) of INTJ you are that makes it difficult for you. Or maybe all the INTPs here are just argumentative or provocative by nature. Hmmm... something to think on.

 

[slowriot]

Damn it, here we go again...
Jim, you just do not get along with INTPs, do you?
These constant skirmishes you get yourself involved in, to me, are funny; mainly because my sister is an INTP and we get along just great. I wonder if it's the the type (or flavor, if you will) of INTJ you are that makes it difficult for you. Or maybe all the INTPs here are just argumentative or provocative by nature. Hmmm... something to think on.

LOL

 

[InvisibleJim]

awwwww aint that sad, kitty cant read properly

Damn it, here we go again...
Jim, you just do not get along with INTPs, do you?
These constant skirmishes you get yourself involved in, to me, are funny; mainly because my sister is an INTP and we get along just great. I wonder if it's the the type (or flavor, if you will) of INTJ you are that makes it difficult for you. Or maybe all the INTPs here are just argumentative or provocative by nature. Hmmm... something to think on.

I get on fine with 90% of people although I only get on 'well' with 1% of people. Believe it or not this 90% easily includes Slowriot. Regardless of this, if people raise a technical point that defies logic I reserve the right to allow my mind to explode.

This especially includes occasions where we pretend that MBTI, a system derived from Jung's cognitive processes by Myers and Briggs is referred to as a system 'which has very little to do with' said cognitive processes.

I'm not going to argue that 'in reality' most MBTI'd people could give two flying cockerels about cognitive processes, but that doesn't mean we should accept the 'lowest common denominator' when I'm discussing type with someone who has shared much of the same forum space with myself over the past 3 years.

What I would recommend for you, however is that you do not get involved in a technical argument by making it an issue regarding one individual versus another. Nothing is served in any discussion if you are really going to be foolish enough to step into that spot. Especially as an interfering third party.

In Summary

a) Yes, what Slow just said blew my mind, but it's not personal.
b) I have more respect for Mr. Riot than you know, but I found the technical details wanting.
c) Mind your own.

 

[Elfboy]

Damn it, here we go again...
Jim, you just do not get along with INTPs, do you?
These constant skirmishes you get yourself involved in, to me, are funny; mainly because my sister is an INTP and we get along just great. I wonder if it's the the type (or flavor, if you will) of INTJ you are that makes it difficult for you. Or maybe all the INTPs here are just argumentative or provocative by nature. Hmmm... something to think on.

I can't say I blame him. it's not even really that I dislike INTPs (I think they're friggin geniuses actually), I just find them impossible to communicate with sometimes, in much the same way that I could see an INTJ having struggles with them. you see INTJs are all about what's the core issue? how do I solve the puzzle? what's the one piece of information with which I can move a mountain? while INTPs value more the technicalities of the project, and will argue those to you before you've even decided the direction you want to go in.