[NT] reverse class discrimination

[Lark]

I am a pirate.

I will take your treasures. To make me rich.

To be honest I think this is one of the best posts in thread.

I'll tell you why, historically the affirming of working class sensibility has been a feature of pretty much every ideology, even those that didnt hold out any hope of improving things for working people or dispensing with ideas about station altogether.

When I hear anyone affirming or attacking the working classes now it's just cartoonish and wrong, there's nothing to villify or valourising about class per se, particularly if its only an indicator of wealth or status, maybe once upon a time those were things to automatically attacked pride to as earned, deserved, respected but I'm not so sure and who's to say they ever were.

 

[Oberon]

I have in the past, why?

Because your experience doesn't square with mine, and I'm trying to figure out why.

 

[onemoretime]

Because your experience doesn't square with mine, and I'm trying to figure out why.

How big of a company did you work for?

 

[Oberon]

How big of a company did you work for?

I'm currently working for a global pharma manufacturer, and I work at a manufacturing plant. I've been with the company about five years, in various capacities.

 

[onemoretime]

I'm currently working for a global pharma manufacturer, and I work at a manufacturing plant. I've been with the company about five years, in various capacities.

That may be where the distinction lies - the company I worked for was smaller (oilfield related). Might have to do with a bit of the siege mentality that working in these fields engenders - in the smaller companies, it's the bigger ones that are always out to get you, and in the bigger ones, it's the government who is doing the same. I actually did some pharmaceutical compliance work last summer, and did some research into FDA regulations and the sort. Turns out that while on the sales side, the Feds are pretty brutal (with the billion-dollar offlabel fines and all), on the manufacturing side, many, if not most, of the regulations were created with the consultation of many of the larger companies. Not only that, but there had been a bit of an outcry over claims of favoritism.

I guess it all depends on your perspective. What might be a pain in the ass to you might also be keeping the stock price a few cents higher. It's just that the latter is the higher priority.

 

[ceecee]

Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

I'm 37. I'm not old.

 

[Thalassa]

Like I said, read that book I recommended.

I researched this very special book, and my opinion of it is now even lower than it was originally with you describing it in only the vaguest terms.

It isn't a work of serious sociological literature, it's a self-congratulatory satire book: great humor for the sort of people who like to look down on everyone else.

And I do mean everyone...apparently the only class of acceptable people are in the 10th "class X" which I suppose Edgar considers himself as belonging to.

It looks more interesting as a work of light comedy. It is not a real sociological study of class, and telling people that they are wasting their time by going to any college that isn't an Ivy League college bespeaks of a particular world view the author has, not fact.

I'm actually not suprised that you would take a book like this so seriously, since you also take Keirsey stereotypes so seriously.

You're such an INTJ. *pets*

 

[Edgar]

I researched this very special book

Researched? As opposed to read it?

Also, u mad?

 

[OrangeAppled]

In fact, the more I read this, the more I think people are confusing things like level of intelligence, intellectualism, and even personality type with "class."

I got the same impression just skimming through the thread...

I think that attitude is what breeds resentment towards upper class wealthy people from the lower classes.....some of these people appear to have the idea that the lower classes are somehow less intelligent, not inclined to intellectualism, without refined feelings, etc. That along with the idea that simply because these people were born into wealth & opportunity that they automatically DO have those things. This just doesn't exist outside of movies....

This is why determining class outside of money & social status is tricky.....if you're gauging it by the aforementioned traits, then you can have different classes within one household.

 

[Beargryllz]

This is why determining class outside of money & social status is tricky.....if you're gauging it by the aforementioned traits, then you can have different classes within one household.

But if the classes hate each other, we can watch all the craziness unfold. It's perfect material, fit for some kind of sitcom.

 

[rav3n]

My point is, lots of people like to bitch on the internet about how unfair things are for the downtrodden. It's damned rare to find someone who's actually willing to roll up their sleeves and do something about it.

Exactly! Entitlement has no class boundaries.

 

[Thalassa]

Researched? As opposed to read it?

Also, u mad?

No, it's not that I'm mad Edgar. It's just that I tried to have a discussion with you about this several months ago and you refused to share your own ideas on the topic with me in detail. I wanted your own views of the material you had read, and you just kept insisting people read the book.

So I went to buy a used copy of it, and read up on it, and read reviews, and yes, I am really at a loss why you would take something that was obviously intended to be a satirical, humorous work so seriously...it obviously has some truth in it, but it's apparently not a serious sociological study in the slightest.

I am not disagreeing with you because I am mad at *you*...if that were the case, I'd just bomb your PM inbox.

I am actually irritated at your inability (or refusal) to defend these ideas with your own thoughts. I'm also completely mystified why anyone would hold up a shallow, sarcastic work of humor as a great in-depth study of class in the United States.

Also, I'd probably be class X anyway...I'm a writer, a retreatist, and I drink dark beer, unlike all of the other high level proles. I just didn't happen to go to a major name university, since I never thought that mattered at any point in my life.

And on that note being class X seems to be a product of retreating from the upper-middle class, not retreating from all classes.

 

[Edgar]

No, it's not that I'm mad Edgar. It's just that I tried to have a discussion with you about this several months ago and you refused to share your own ideas on the topic with me in detail. I wanted your own views of the material you had read, and you just kept insisting people read the book.

Sorry for not sharing my ideas in detail. I was busy playing Tekken/scratching my ass/sharing racy PMs with other members - pick one.

So I went to buy a used copy of it, and read up on it, and read reviews, and yes, I am really at a loss why you would take something that was obviously intended to be a satirical, humorous work so seriously...it obviously has some truth in it, but it's apparently not a serious sociological study in the slightest.

I am not disagreeing with you because I am mad at *you*...if that were the case, I'd just bomb your PM inbox.

I am actually irritated at your inability (or refusal) to defend these ideas with your own thoughts. I'm also completely mystified why anyone would hold up a shallow, sarcastic work of humor as a great in-depth study of class in the United States.

Also, I'd probably be class X anyway...I'm a writer, a retreatist, and I drink dark beer, unlike all of the other high level proles. I just didn't happen to go to a major name university, since I never thought that mattered at any point in my life.

And on that note being class X seems to be a product of retreating from the upper-middle class, not retreating from all classes.

Class X is a lie. Fussell used it as a cop out to avoid the inevitable butthurt which a lot of "class sensitive" people would experience after reading his book. By his descriptions, Class X are basically upper class hippies - "they buy tickets to a remote country on whim, and board the plane barefoot". Who the fuck has the time and money for that amongst the three major classes?

And just to get this out of the way - you are most likely a "high prole" by Fussell's criteria, or as Hannibal Lecter would say "A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste".

As for me, I'm a middle-middle class schlub, as my student loans and my boring ass office job would clearly indicate.

 

[King sns]

Sorry for not sharing my ideas in detail. I was busy playing Tekken/scratching my ass/sharing racy PMs with other members - pick one.



Class X is a lie. Fussell used it as a cop out to avoid the inevitable butthurt which a lot of "class sensitive" people would experience after reading his book. By his descriptions, Class X are basically upper class hippies - "they buy tickets to a remote country on whim, and board the plane barefoot". Who the fuck has the time and money for that amongst the three major classes?

And just to get this out of the way - you are most likely a "high prole" by Fussell's descriptions, or as Hannibal Lecter would say "A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste".

As for me, I'm a middle class schlub, as my student loans and my boring ass office job would clearly indicate.

(lower middle class)

 

[ThatGirl]

I won't lie I often discriminate on rich or well off people but it isn't because of the money. Usually it is because most of the influential or powerfull people are idiots and I consider it a horrible injustice. Also a lot of them really are either conceited or assholes. There are some who earn my respect but it is very rare.


Just my opinion haven't really followed the thread.

 

[Edgar]

(lower middle class)

It could be easily argued that the recently minted attorneys are lower middle class, but in my case, I have a "respectful" federal job, and don't come anywhere near sales/retail/customer support bullshit, which is indicative of the lower middle class, or as I call it "a monkey with a tie".

 

[King sns]

It could be easily argued that the recently minted attorneys are lower middle class, but in my case, I have a "respectful" federal job, and don't come anywhere near sales/retail/customer support bullshit, which is indicative of the lower middle class, or as I call it "a monkey with a tie".

oh, so you do care ...

 

[Thalassa]

Sorry for not sharing my ideas in detail. I was busy playing Tekken/scratching my ass/sharing racy PMs with other members - pick one.

Oh don't make fun of how irrational I am when I'm drunk. That's not nice. Apparently u the one who is mad.

Class X is a lie. Fussell used it as a cop out to avoid the inevitable butthurt which a lot of "class sensitive" people would experience after reading his book. By his descriptions, Class X are basically upper class hippies - "they buy tickets to a remote country on whim, and board the plane barefoot". Who the fuck has the time and money for that amongst the three major classes?

And just to get this out of the way - you are most likely a "high prole" by Fussell's criteria, or as Hannibal Lecter would say "A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste".

As for me, I'm a middle-middle class schlub, as my student loans and my boring ass office job would clearly indicate.

Well I agree with you about the concept of class X, so I can at least respect your opinion on that.

I love how you've neatly categorized me as a high prole, even though I work from home and have more flexibility in my work schedule than you...though I agree, because I was definitely born as a high prole, I'll completely own that.

You love neatly categorizing. But you were so wrong about me being INFJ. Don't you ever wonder what else you've been wrong about?

 

[Edgar]

oh, so you do care ...

Yes, class insecurity is a good indicator of the middle class. They wish they were upper class and at the same time are afraid of falling into lower class.

 

[King sns]

Yes, class insecurity is a good indicator of the middle class. They wish they were upper class and at the same time are afraid of falling into lower class.

That makes sense. (I just wanted to see how you reacted to your own Edgar medicine.)
I would think that almost everyone would consider themselves to be middle class. Just "normal" especially compared to people around you. Unless you are on one extreme or another of the spectrum.