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  1. #271


    [youtube="YPSzPGrazPo"]Reverse class discrimination[/youtube]

    "One day you'll realize there's more to life than culture. There's dirt, and smoke, and good honest sweat!"

  2. #272
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010


    this thread just won't d i e . . .
    SCOEI / Inquisitive

  3. #273
    Join Date
    May 2009
    6w7 sx
    SEE Fi


    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    this thread just won't d i e . . .
    Look what you've done! Just look what you've done!

    *points to thread*

  4. #274
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    9w1 sx/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    In fact, I think I know what may have happened over the past course of thirty years: Gen X.

    Gen X was an incredibly sophisticated generation in terms of adults being shocked by their extensive vocabularies by their teen years, and the fact that they worshiped the working class, all whilst being intermingled with intellectualism, irony, and liberal politics.

    I think Gen X may be the primary reason why this book became so outdated about the state of the high proles vs. middles, but it still doesn't explain why my prole grandfather - a good two generations before Gen X - was so inclined to read. He just didn't read "high literature."

    Gen X was different than the punk generation in the 1970's although they both glorified the working class - Gen X did it in a more educated, intellectual manner while punk was just more like "fuck you people and your middle class pretense" pretty simply and openly.


    HOWEVER, it also doesn't explain away the concept of working class intellectual which existed before Fussell even wrote this book. Peguy made an excellent point in the class quiz thread in the article about Ian Curtis of Joy Division, etc.

    *predicts Edgar coming in here and saying "you are the exception that proves the rule"*
    Great, so I'm to blame for hipsters too???

  5. #275
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Kk, I've been reading Class by Paul Fussel and I'd like to make an announcement to everyone that, in some ways, Edgar was right. I do see what he was getting at now that I am reading the book, and some of the stuff in it is also absolutely hilarious. A lot of the "high prole" stuff reminds me of the older people I grew up around in the South.

    On the other hand, some of it is just outdated, wrong, or stupid stereotypes. "The Blues" (high proles with as much money as a the middle class) don't have a book in their house? When I was growing up my house was covered in book shelves. I had a book shelf practically to the ceiling in my bedroom and my grandfather had two bookshelves. Hence, lit major, hello. Also, I'd just as easily name my cat after a literary figure as they say the upper middle class is wont to do, and I read as many mystery novels as the upper class are supposed to.

    Also, I disagree that blue collar people only drink behind curtains on Saturday night...that's just religious blue collar people. Blue collar people are equally as likely to have drinks in the back yard as it says white collar people do. Also, blue collar women know to go shopping in the city for nice clothes, et al. I think the book tries too hard to assert that middle class people are always more educated than high proles and that's simply just not the case at all.

    I mean the book is very entertaining, and I think the basic precepts are correct - the middle class are nervous, bland, well-behaved, and obsessed with going to the right school, and the high proles are less likely to be as self-conscious, are more comfortable in their own skin, et al - but yeah, it is way overgeneralized. It is steeped in stereotypes.

    But the stereotypes are hilarious. The "luxury" high prole bathrooms remind me of my mother, grandmother, and probably every older relative that I have.
    Just got done with the book. Thinking about hiking over to Penn to talk with the guy.

    Regarding your experiences - could just be that your grandmother and grandfather are of different social classes, and your grandfather is more middle class, while your grandmother is more "lug-zhury" high-prole.

    As to drinking habits - I think it's more about the surrounding context. The Blues are "moving up in the world" and they know it. Therefore, they don't want the neighbors to get the wrong idea about who they are. Meanwhile, the Whites know that they bought a "fixer-upper" and are slumming it a bit. Therefore, they really don't care all that much what the neighbors think. The Whites are high-proles and the Blues are mid-proles.

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