• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NT] Apology

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
I apologize for having wrapped up my ego in my arguments in the past. This involves trying to stretch the logic of my argument out to where I can stay technically correct, instead of just admitting that I had taken a wrong turn, and starting over with better info. I realize now that it's annoying, and that most of the time, you're not correcting me to one-up me.

What sucks about this is that there is a "boy who cries wolf" effect that comes out of this, which undermines my credibility on later topics where I do have accurate knowledge, and do need to stand my ground. Furthermore, keeping at a completely asinine argument simply because I was afraid I'd look bad was the most shortsighted thing imaginable. I looked much worse through the use of logical gymnastics, after all!

I promise that from here on out, if you've got some good info that I'm not aware of, I'll be happy to learn it, and appreciative of your knowledge. It's nothing personal, after all :)

I wrote this because during a discussion with another (assumed younger) ENTP on another board, I couldn't believe how many basic logical flaws were in his argument; what's more, I couldn't help but recognize how familiar those tactics were to me. Embarrassing... ;)

It's always better to leave a discussion knowing what's true, than it is thinking that you won on bad information and rhetorical skill.

Thank you for your attention. :newwink:
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
question: If I made a planet that suspended the laws of thermodynamics... would you visit it? Or would you need to bring me up to code first?

:)
 

Beargryllz

New member
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Messages
2,719
MBTI Type
INTP
The thing about losing an argument is that, even if you lose, you still win, because now you know much more than you did a moment ago. It is gratitude, not apology, that is required here.
 

funkadelik

good hair
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
1,614
MBTI Type
lmao
Oh dude, way to be a killjoy!


Just kidding.

I agree. Ego likes to play as a third party in debates and arguments so badly. What an ass.

Or maybe that's just me. :rolleyes:

The thing about losing an argument is that, even if you lose, you still win, because now you know much more than you did a moment ago. It is gratitude, not apology, that is required here.

This is also a good comment. So much can be learned from failure. What is it: you make gold purer by putting it in fire over and over again? Sums up the human learning experience.
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I sometimes catch myself posting an idea or a concept that I haven't quite thought through myself yet. Just a spindle of thought straight from Ne onto paper. And more often than not, that gets misinterpretted at first (well, how could it not, they're often fairly vague in nature, and my choice of words don't always aim specifically for clarity either.), and whilest I am constantly spinning my thoughts around the subject whilest discussion it with others, my own viewpoint on the subject gets strengthened, and sometimes even shifts towards certain angles that overshadow the post in which I had brought the issue up. I like this way of pingponging in a debate, but to some this might be very annoying.

I think this is just one of the things us Ne users have to deal with sometimes. Our Ne ideas are like raw diamonds, that need to be cut first.

Isn't that what you mean though? Or have you actually known you should've shifted your arguements, but stubbornly refused for the sake of your previous arguement? In this case, bad bad boy! :D

Still, I think the foundation of the problem is our Ne flapping out our ideas pre-maturely. :>
 

Vasilisa

Symbolic Herald
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
3,946
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Thats big of you to realize and come out and declare :)
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
I'm sure you learned SOMETHING from those discussions, if not absolute truth....

Be careful, other people don't know what the fuck they are talking about either.
 

Xenon

(blankpages)
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
832
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
The thing about losing an argument is that, even if you lose, you still win, because now you know much more than you did a moment ago. It is gratitude, not apology, that is required here.

I admire people who can sincerely carry this attitude into debate or discussions. I find it quite difficult to do. My ego is often very tied up with my ideas. I normally avoid debate in the first place rather than repeatedly get into arguments and act like a blowhard, but the motivation is the same.

I'm sure you learned SOMETHING from those discussions, if not absolute truth....

Be careful, other people don't know what the fuck they are talking about either.

:laugh: True enough.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Chalk it up as a learning experience. Class move to apologize though.

At any rate, you are an easy fellow to forgive.
 

iwakar

crush the fences
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,877
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I apologize for having wrapped up my ego in my arguments in the past. This involves trying to stretch the logic of my argument out to where I can stay technically correct, instead of just admitting that I had taken a wrong turn, and starting over with better info. I realize now that it's annoying, and that most of the time, you're not correcting me to one-up me.

What sucks about this is that there is a "boy who cries wolf" effect that comes out of this, which undermines my credibility on later topics where I do have accurate knowledge, and do need to stand my ground. Furthermore, keeping at a completely asinine argument simply because I was afraid I'd look bad was the most shortsighted thing imaginable. I looked much worse through the use of logical gymnastics, after all!

I promise that from here on out, if you've got some good info that I'm not aware of, I'll be happy to learn it, and appreciative of your knowledge. It's nothing personal, after all :)

I wrote this because during a discussion with another (assumed younger) ENTP on another board, I couldn't believe how many basic logical flaws were in his argument; what's more, I couldn't help but recognize how familiar those tactics were to me. Embarrassing... ;)

It's always better to leave a discussion knowing what's true, than it is thinking that you won on bad information and rhetorical skill.

Thank you for your attention. :newwink:

Warning: you have exceeded the amount of allowable awesome for one post.

:solidarity:
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I wrote this because during a discussion with another (assumed younger) ENTP on another board, I couldn't believe how many basic logical flaws were in his argument; what's more, I couldn't help but recognize how familiar those tactics were to me. Embarrassing... ;)

Ah yes, I know that experience well -- of seeing my past behavior reflected in someone I'm currently dealing with, and realizing to a full degree what others had to do to put up with me during my own time(s) of folly.

Teachable moment. They happen. No worries. Change is progress. :)

The thing about losing an argument is that, even if you lose, you still win, because now you know much more than you did a moment ago. It is gratitude, not apology, that is required here.

Agreed... although at times one can be smarting way too much to feel an emotion as pure as gratitude. ("Yes. Thank you. Hit me again. Yow, that hurt. Yes!")

If I find myself getting too emotional about a position, I try to force myself to step back, figure out why, and switch back to a more open position.
 

Octarine

The Eighth Colour
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
1,351
MBTI Type
Aeon
Enneagram
10w
Instinctual Variant
so
It's always better to leave a discussion knowing what's true, than it is thinking that you won on bad information and rhetorical skill.

What is this winning you speak of? Do you get a prize? :jew:
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
*smiles*

We all go through this, its part of growing up and gaining wisdom, I guess :hug:

You've always been an openminded guy in my experience and willing to listen when genuinly interested in the topic (despite still perhaps sticking to your guns..but that's fine with me :))...even if you are an ENTP :alttongue: :smile:
 

Beargryllz

New member
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Messages
2,719
MBTI Type
INTP
If I find myself getting too emotional about a position, I try to force myself to step back, figure out why, and switch back to a more open position.

Only switch if it is the right thing to do. Sometimes you're supposed to feel strongly about a position, but you have to know why you're feeling this. Sometimes the initial position is totally justified and worth keeping.
 
Top