• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NT] Question on NT grief

A

Anew Leaf

Guest
Hi everyone. I would very much like some insights into how NT's process grief and whether my what my dad is doing makes sense to your viewpoint. (it is alien to me and has been hurtful a lot.)

Family: dad is an INTP (T to the max), mom was ENFP, and I am INFP

What happened: last year my mom got diagnosed with stage 3 cancer out of the blue. The prognosis wasn't good, and she only managed another 5 months after the diagnosis. During that 5 month period my dad and I took care of her on a daily and almost hourly basis. It was very exhausting in a number of ways for us both. I am an only child so it was only the two of us.

The grief process: a month after she died my dad told me he wanted to start
dating. His reasoning was that he loved my mother and would never replace her but that he liked being married and wanted to find someone new. I was pissed and told him so. He agreed he would wait until after the first of the year.

When the end of December rolled around he had another talk with me saying how he was an extravert, and how this harmony test told him he was "emotionally strong" and that's why his grief process was so short, and that he was just fine.

Since then he has met a nice widow and now he wants to sell the house, move in with her, etc. He has changed his haircut, his clothes, his habits, his hobbies, and now he wants to change everything else. It's coming up on 8 months to when she died.

While I understand that my own process of grief will be vastly different due to the different relationships we had with my mom, I still find it hard to believe that he is as "fine" as he says. I am concerned that he is simply distracting himself with lots of activities and that at some future point he will have an emotional "crash" of sorts.

Thanks for any and all replies in regarded to understanding what my Vulcan dad is up to ;).
 

Xyk

New member
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
284
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
I have a little experience with grief and being INTP. He's probably bottling it up. I do that. I find distractions to keep my mind off of whatever happened. INTP has Fe as its inferior function, so we have a really hard time expressing any kind of emotion. He has probably analyzed his situation and determined that the best course of action is to simply move on.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
Saturned, I'm sorry for your loss. It must have been and still must be devastating for you.

Having said that, it's also okay for your father to grieve in the way that makes sense to him. It's also okay to change and to fall in love again. What I've found in life is that people can transfer their affections from person to person and continue being happy without missing much of a beat. While it floors me that they're able to do so, whatever makes people happy.

Now if he's reacting in a rebound fashion, that's okay too. If he crashes, he'll learn something from the experience.

We cannot control others but we can control our own projections.
 

INTPness

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,157
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
He has probably analyzed his situation and determined that the best course of action is to simply move on.

Yeah, this. There's no doubt that I'd be hurting inside, but I don't think you have to worry about some future "emotional fall out". That's not really characteristic of NT's, I don't think. The pain is tremendous, it hurts, it's painful, your heart bleeds, etc. - but the NT is usually mentally tough. I know that's not the answer that NF's like to hear - NF's want us to express it or to "deal with it emotionally" - but that's just not really how it works for us. He's dealing with it inside - no doubt about it. And this "new phase" is probably exciting for him - it's giving him a chance to get away from Ti and just engage in Ne. If he sat at home every day and just thought about the loss of your mother with Ti - he'd go NUTS. He'd be a complete zombie. Imagine analyzing the passing of the most important person in your life with a fine-toothed comb - day in and day out. He'd go insane. We're insane enough as it is for analyzing systems and processes, but to analyze something like that for hours and hours is some heavy stuff. I think too much Ti could really jack him up.

He needs a bit of Ne release right now to get him out of his "thinker zone". I think by extroverting himself, he's actually giving more attention to Fe too. He's actually getting AWAY from T and getting more in touch with F by not sitting around the house all day. He's connecting with another human being on an emotional level and that's helping him to cope as well.

I don't think you'll have to worry about some later emotional breakdown. It's dealt with internally and it's dealt with in a sort of hardcore fashion.

Very, very sorry for your loss.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
Hi everyone,

Thank you for the responses! They made a lot of sense and have helped give me a much needed perspective change in this situation. I think my NT friends were worried they would hurt my feelings (admittedly an easy thing to do at times) so they changed the subject on it. I am glad you guys were able to answer for me. :)
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
My ESFJ mother (now also deceased) used to say that people who enjoyed their marriage relationship the most were the most likely to remarry upon being widowed. My SO has two older relatives who remarried not much more than a year after their first spouses died. I remember they themselves having concerns about whether it was too soon (neither was NT; likely NF and SJ), but I think they just stayed in touch with the rest of the family enough, that everyone was able to see and appreciate how these new relationships evolved, and that they were healthy for the surviving spouses. I'm sure type is coloring your situation, but I see much more in it that is simply human.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
That makes sense. I think what has bothered me the most is just how cavalier he has come off since my mom died. I got that my dad at the young age of 60 would eventually want to find someone else, but bringing the subject up barely a month after she died was too much for me to comprehend.

And I thought of the NT context because my dads arguments were so very "NT"ish. Logic and reality above all else. I was very much my dads child growing up and I have always admired and been intrigued by his calm, logical manner, and unique perspective. It just failed me utterly in this situation. From my perspective when I think about what it would mean if I was ready to move on only a month later I would see two possibilities: 1- I didn't care for that person very much. 2- I am avoiding the real issue by distracting myself with shiny new things. And I know my dad loved my mom so that one is out, etc.

It is definitely only a small cog in the clock of life. Considering how long it has taken me to get over just simple romances in life, I am probably not the best judge of this either. :)
 

INTP

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
7,803
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
He's probably bottling it up. I do that. I find distractions to keep my mind off of whatever happened. INTP has Fe as its inferior function, so we have a really hard time expressing any kind of emotion. He has probably analyzed his situation and determined that the best course of action is to simply move on.

this. personally i dont think its such an good idea even if it feels like the easy way out, the easy way out pretty much never is
 

slowriot

He who laughs
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
1,314
Enneagram
5w4
Saturned have you considered that during the last time your mother lived your dad was trying to come to terms with life after her? As emotionally draining as a terminal illness can be on friends and family, we react very differently. And maybe the five months were your dads mourning period. Coming to terms with his own situation after your mother had died. It doesnt mean he stopped caring for her but that he also tried to work through the emotions, maybe even with your mother. So he was better prepared the day she died.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
Saturned have you considered that during the last time your mother lived your dad was trying to come to terms with life after her? As emotionally draining as a terminal illness can be on friends and family, we react very differently. And maybe the five months were your dads mourning period. Coming to terms with his own situation after your mother had died. It doesnt mean he stopped caring for her but that he also tried to work through the emotions, maybe even with your mother. So he was better prepared the day she died.

That is an interesting point. Looking back on those 5 months, I think you have hit the nail on the head. My mom was worried for me and didn't want me to know how bad it was, and kept telling me how the doctors said she had 2 years. My dad was actually in those meetings with her.... and knew much better how little time she had. So, I had this vision of my mom getting some kind of miracle and beign cured, etc. It wasn't until about 2 weeks before she died that I finally faced up to the truth as to how sick she was.

My dad made frequent comments that upset me at the time because I was focused on some miracle/2 years... but looking back, with this idea in mind, I can see much clearer that he was doing his mourning then.

Hmm, thanks for the new food for thought on this topic...

(also, I just watched the episode where Data dates the blond chick and your signature made me smile. :))
 

iwakar

crush the fences
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,877
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Well, I can add some pretty up-close and personal experience about INTPs and suffering in the marriage due to an ill spouse, and what it's like to be a child of that.

My father is an INTP and last year my (SJ) step-mother was finally diagnosed with multiple sclerosis after years of strange bouts of illness. The toll on her health has taken a rapid downturn in the past few months. When I visited my father last fall I knew he was anxious by his incessant, factual rambling. He kept telling me "I've thought things through a lot, we're gonna be fine, she's just gonna work less, we're gonna save more, we're gonna opt for cheaper cars, we're gonna find a cheaper house, we're gonna sell the extra property, we're gonna make sure you kids are set up for whatever you need, I've read about some alternative treatments that we're going to contact the insurance about" etc. I know my Dad. I know he's good at thinking about the future and trying to cover all the angles. I know he's given the probable outcome of all of this a LOT of thought. It is touching to see how he has gone through great pains to fully educate himself on all of the implications of her illness in an effort to be helpful and informed, which is how he shows his strength and support. He has spent hours poring over their financial investments and savings etc. to see what their resources are and the best way to use them.

But I also know that my Dad feels it is his job to be the tough, responsible one at all times... an oldest child like me with lots of responsibility thrust onto him at an early age. He bottles up his feelings not just as a behavioral preference, but because he does not have any close friendships where he can vent his feelings of sadness, frustration, and anxiety that I know he is experiencing. I think with his wife and kids especially, he has avoided appearing frightened or sad because he wants to be a stable, hopeful, and positive presence for us and I appreciate what that stoicism says about his love and care for us even if we don't require it (but it's obvious that he requires it more for himself). I'm a good reader of my Dad, and I too have worried that he is bottling up more than he can handle on his own. It would not be the first time he has done this. I know it is in his nature to analyze the freak out of situations so that he can be mentally prepared for all of the variables, but I have taken the time to stop him on two occasions and said "I know you've thought this all through Dad and I know you're taking good care of her, but what about you? Are you okay Dad?" And this is where I see the hesitation, and the facial muscles at work, and he says matter of factly, "I am scared." ... *silence* And this is where lots of hugs and reassurances came in, both verbal (but often) silent: a squeeze of the hand, a surprise coffee from Starbucks (his favorite), or an offer to help him and my stepmom out in a tangible way (want me to make dinner? walk the dogs? help research alternative treatments etc.?). Just talking about his feelings is not something he is often interested in I have learned. My Dad doesn't have to elaborate on his feelings though if he doesn't want to, I get it. But it is still important to me that he knows I care, I am here, and he can lean on me and my adult brothers if he needs to because that is what family is for: he doesn't have to be SuperDad all the time. I know it's just his role in my life that prevents him from having that much-needed ventilation, so I was relieved when we visited my grandmother (his Mom) and she asked if he was okay after he got done telling her all of the factual details and plans etc. that he had just told me, but then he just broke down sobbing, and we group-hugged for a long time and didn't say anything except that we loved each other. My father is not a cryer, and seeing him cry like that felt like having my heart ripped out of my chest. I know he is in pain and I think his venting made us all feel relieved (my grandmother and I because he's shown he can be vulnerable with us and my Dad because he got to see that we can handle it).

I guess my final thought is that if your father says he is fine, you will have to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure the rapid change of lifestyle and partner must be having a tumultuous emotional impact on you (it would on me). All you can really do is let him know that you care, that you are concerned, that he is not alone, and that you support his choices if it means he will be happy even if you don't understand them or wouldn't choose them for yourself. Maybe saying that will allow you both to reassure each other in a meaningful way. IME, just proving yourself as a reliable source of support, a patient listener, and reaching out across the aisle at those moments that you sense they want to but are hesitant to, is usually enough for INTPs and most other people.

Saturned, I am so sorry for your loss and I dread the day that I may have to make a post similar to yours.

:hug:
 
Last edited:

iwakar

crush the fences
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,877
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp

Saturned have you considered that during the last time your mother lived your dad was trying to come to terms with life after her? As emotionally draining as a terminal illness can be on friends and family, we react very differently. And maybe the five months were your dads mourning period. Coming to terms with his own situation after your mother had died. It doesnt mean he stopped caring for her but that he also tried to work through the emotions, maybe even with your mother. So he was better prepared the day she died.

That is an interesting point. Looking back on those 5 months, I think you have hit the nail on the head. My mom was worried for me and didn't want me to know how bad it was, and kept telling me how the doctors said she had 2 years. My dad was actually in those meetings with her.... and knew much better how little time she had. So, I had this vision of my mom getting some kind of miracle and beign cured, etc. It wasn't until about 2 weeks before she died that I finally faced up to the truth as to how sick she was.

My dad made frequent comments that upset me at the time because I was focused on some miracle/2 years... but looking back, with this idea in mind, I can see much clearer that he was doing his mourning then.

Hmm, thanks for the new food for thought on this topic...

(also, I just watched the episode where Data dates the blond chick and your signature made me smile. :))



ADDED NOTE: Just saw your re: to the previous post and thought I should mention that I, also have noticed both my father and I are such future-oriented people that we often plan and grieve far in advance of major events as a way of coping, so it can come as a surprise to others that once the moment arrives, we are surprisingly stoic, and prepared to move on. It is usually unforeseen tragedy that unhinges us.
 
Last edited:

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
ADDED NOTE: Just saw your re: to the previous post and thought I should mention that I, also have noticed both my father and I are such future-oriented people that we often plan and grieve far in advance of major events as a way of coping, so it can come as a surprise to others that once the moment arrives, we are surprisingly stoic, and prepared to move on. It is usually unforeseen tragedy that unhinges us.

I think this is very true. It certainly is for myself and I know if my husband was dying, I would have done all the dealing I could while he was still with me. I've always been told by others that I handle crisis better than anyone they know. I don't. I simply prepare for it better than anyone they know. That is how I cope. Unexpected things I handle well then collapse when it's over and I think this is true of a lot of people. I am sorry for your loss.
 

slowriot

He who laughs
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
1,314
Enneagram
5w4
That is an interesting point. Looking back on those 5 months, I think you have hit the nail on the head. My mom was worried for me and didn't want me to know how bad it was, and kept telling me how the doctors said she had 2 years. My dad was actually in those meetings with her.... and knew much better how little time she had. So, I had this vision of my mom getting some kind of miracle and beign cured, etc. It wasn't until about 2 weeks before she died that I finally faced up to the truth as to how sick she was.

My dad made frequent comments that upset me at the time because I was focused on some miracle/2 years... but looking back, with this idea in mind, I can see much clearer that he was doing his mourning then.

Hmm, thanks for the new food for thought on this topic...

(also, I just watched the episode where Data dates the blond chick and your signature made me smile. :))

I think you should try and talk to him about it. If this is important to you, he would be willing to do so, Im quite sure. In personal experience if people I care for, dont understand my grounds of reasoning I do go out of my way to explain it to them. I do not want to be misinterpreted and causing concerns on their part, but Im not a mindreader.

ADDED NOTE: Just saw your re: to the previous post and thought I should mention that I, also have noticed both my father and I are such future-oriented people that we often plan and grieve far in advance of major events as a way of coping, so it can come as a surprise to others that once the moment arrives, we are surprisingly stoic, and prepared to move on. It is usually unforeseen tragedy that unhinges us.

Yes, very true.

I think this is very true. It certainly is for myself and I know if my husband was dying, I would have done all the dealing I could while he was still with me. I've always been told by others that I handle crisis better than anyone they know. I don't. I simply prepare for it better than anyone they know. That is how I cope. Unexpected things I handle well then collapse when it's over and I think this is true of a lot of people. I am sorry for your loss.

Yes to this aswell.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
Very interesting posts everyone.

Iwakar: This sounded a lot like my dad too. He was very focused on the reality of the situation and preparation for the future. He got very frustrated with the hospital because they kept brushing us off on details. He really wanted to know all the stages of how she was going to get worse and what was recommended to do at each step. I think (all of this so much in retrospect) that that kind of kept him together for the most part.

ceecee: That makes a lot of sense. And the little bit I got from my dad in regards to their last conversations seems to be along these lines. I think he had my mom's help in grieving beforehand a little bit.

slowriot: I had a pretty long chat with my dad the other night about some of my concerns. He listened and I think we understand each other better now.

It has been very helpful reading this thread. Last year is basically one very, very, very long day for me. It all runs together and blurs. My birthday came around a few weeks ago and it felt very surreal to be a year older, when for me mentally, a year hadn't really passed by.

I also appreciate the warm sentiments expressed by everyone as well.
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
I usually cannot process grief until the situation is completely passed, resolved, everyone has moved on, and forgotten about it. For some reason it hurts less to do it that way, and also feels safer.

Idk if your dad is anything like me, but if he is, he will move on, and when he is a new and safe place, he will handle the old feelings on his own, behind the scenes, and by himself.

He probably wont regret any of the decisions he is making now.
 

xisnotx

Permabanned
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Messages
2,144
I think he is dealing with it the only way he knows how. I say as long as he isn't killing himself (and even then) just let him do what he thinks is best.

From my experience he will crash hard. The more you fight stuff like that the harder you crash. But he will be better person for it...so just let him do what he thinks he needs to do.

again..imo.
 
Top