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[ENTP] My thoughts on imagination (and what can go wrong with it)

guesswho

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Imagination, such an interesting thing. It connects us with what is possible. Possibilities which we cannot see and touch, with our body, but in a way, we can do that with our mind, our physical limitations may be compensated by our imagination.

Now it is pretty obvious to me that people imagine things in different ways, but how real are the things which they imagine?

For instance if one imagines an elephant, how real with that elephant be to that person?
The abstract image of the elephant in our minds is not the same to all of us.
But what if we don't know what an elephant is? How will we imagine the elephant then?
If for instance, someone describes the elephant to us, and asks us to imagine it and perhaps draw it. This will be even more confusing, since we're drawing something we have never seen.

Why would anybody care about the image of the elephant, projected in our minds, and how we perceive the mental elephant? Maybe because it's interesting...I don't know.

Another thing I noticed, people aren't equally aware of the chain reaction of what we do, changes what will happen.
Some people tend to be more connected to what will happen, and not be aware...of what's happening now as much. So in a way, they're more connected to the possibilities, then to what is already there, which cannot be changed, and maybe played with.

So where am I getting at.
The possibilities.

How connected are people to the possibilities around them?
And can some people be more connected the the possibilities, than what's already there. And once they achieve the possibility, it no longer has the same status, it becomes something real. Will it present an equal interest? No.

So, to some people, possibilities are far more interesting than what's already going on, in their own twisted way, they perceive the possibilities as if they are more real then what is real, and they are unaware/not interested that much of what is real.

Doesn't that sound a little insane? I mean that's my first reaction. It sounds completely insane. Someone caring more about what's not real than what's real.

But if possibilities are real for that person and others, aren't possibilities real too?
No because they haven't happened yet. But to that specific person, the possibilities are REAL.

There are extreme sides of imagination.

People who always imagine the worst possible outcome, I sometimes do that, and it kills me, because for me, that outcome is real, in an odd twisted way.

Hypochondriacs.

Imagining diseases. One small pain can make you think you have a incurable disease. Why the fuck does that happen? Why do I do that? I don't want to do it.
It's so annoying.

Worrying.

Looking at the possible outcomes worries me, because I think of the 0.0001% negative possibility, and I experience it kind of weird. Even though it is low, I don't feel it low, I feel it as a 10% 20% 50% 100%

Assume you're leaving your apartment.

And you remember you forgot some plastic clothes on the heater. That actually happened to me. Then I started thinking what if they start burning? What if the whole fucking thing burns to ashes?

It's somewhat obsessive compulsive.

You get obsessed that something will happen.
And you need to check, to see if it actually happens. This is the compulsion.

Hypochondria is similar

You get obsessed that you might have a disease.
And you need to check, by looking at symptoms, or going to a doctor.
Now for instance, if one checks symptoms of a fucked up disease that will fuel the obsession. Creating a repeatable cycle.
You think...oh..I don't have that.
But the next day, you have that.
It's just weird.

How does that work? Why does it feel so real?

Does this happen to any of you?

Thoughts like this don't just appear in your 20s, you've had them for a long time.

For instance, when I was a kid, and I'd be really happy about something, I would suddenly get this thought...what if the gas pipe explodes? (I remember seeing that on TV) It's happened there...why can't it happen here?
And I'd stop feeling that happy...I'd get worried.

What if?

Are these thoughts just malfunctioning neurotransmitters?

What the fuck ?!

Anyway...maybe you have some interesting stories to share...or whatever...I just get sick about talking about the MBTI on the forum all the time.
Although I highly doubt most people will read the entire thing.
 

funkadelik

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Aw man, sorry you're in this state of mind.

Yeah, I relate. Yeah, I tend to think my overactive imagination is both a blessing and a curse. It makes life more interesting, more amusing, more exciting, but at some point or another there's comes the "counterweight" - the moments (hours/days/weeks) of self obsession and darkness that comes from that very same imagination turned inwards.

I view the world through my imagination and yeah, that's fucking insane. And it stands to reason that I would reap the repercussions of that. I don't know why it happens. I really don't. I'd like to blame it on my personality, but who really knows?

The thought that it's a result of "malfunctioning neurotransmitters" doesn't really make all that much sense. Who's to say the way we think is a malfunction? A malfunction of what? Compared to what? Just doesn't seem that black and white. Yes it sucks, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's inherently bad. We all have our inner demons of sorts. Kinda seems like that's how humans are programmed. Or at least we're programmed to call them problems.

And a lot of it's how you deal with it. You can run into a beehive and just stand there, or you can run from the bees and jump in some water. Even though it's our own consciousness, the fight or flight response still applies. Yeah, it may mean constant fighting or constant fleeing, but until we've figured out how to address it better, it might be better than nothing. I guess that's up to you to decide.

And the truth of the matter is, I don't have the answers either. Just some imaginations.

But yeah...uh...this is my attempt at support and comfort. :laugh: Just to let you know you have my support and comfort. :laugh:
 

guesswho

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Thanks for the support :)

Well I'm not like that all the time :laugh: It's just that I don't understand why I'm like that when I'm like that, and it's more annoying than being like that.

Neurotransmitters are actually the cause (that we know of) of obsessive compulsive thinking. I do think these things have a biological factor.

I know this guy, who is suspicious all the time, everything you do to him, raises suspicions. And he tests people to confirm his suspicions, and I think that...even if the people he tests pass his tests he'll probably think the tests weren't good enough...and after feeling comfortable for a while...he will start doing the tests again.
A repeating cycle.

So, in this case, there is a imagined thread. That the other person is not trust worthy, and that he will be betrayed.

It's all imagined.

So weird....

It's how possibilities are interpreted, seeing the 10% possibility as 90% and the 90% as 10%. Distorted.

And a lot of anxieties function the same way....
Seeing the negative over the positive.
 

funkadelik

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Neurotransmitters are actually the cause (that we know of) of obsessive compulsive thinking. I do think these things have a biological factor.

Oh hey, I didn't know that. Actually just read up on that (probably should have done that before posting at first). :p

Really bizarre how it manifests itself in the first place. Have you had any luck with behaviour therapy?

I had a boyfriend with OCD who refused to get professional help for it. We broke up a long time ago, but I talked to him recently and apparently he's now over it (said it just kind of phased out of his life gradually).

I can't pretend to know how to make sense of these things. :huh:
 

guesswho

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I understand how they function because I have to deal with them from time to time :laugh: but I don't understand why they function at all...it's not like it serves any purpose than annoying the person.

I went to a shrink...and asked him the question. And he had no answer, he said it's biological. But if it's biological, how can it be fixed, through talking, wouldn't talking be useless? I mean...you can't talk your way into fixing a broken arm can you? :laugh: It's ridiculous.

So it's both biological and psychological.

I don't even know why I'm thinking or even talking about this.
 

FakePlasticAlice

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I'm not an NT, but i'm gonna respond to this anyway.. hope ya don't mind.

I have a very overactive imagination and i also have social anxiety disorder.. a good combination this does not make! From what i understand, these mental illnesses (social anxiety, ocd, agoraphobia..etc.) usually stem from being genetically predisposed AND being exposed to certain traumas during childhood. While these traumas might not be considered so to us as adults..as a child it's a much different story.

As a young child, before my traumas, i remember being very shy..but i was quite functional. At age 8 my life got turned upside down. I was moved to a new town, taken away from everything i cared about (most importantly the man i considered to be my father - my poppy). There i was bullied, had no friends, my mother became very different and uncaring towards me, then enter an emotionally abusive step-father who ruled the house with fear.. and then my poppy was murdered (by a family member who was fueled in that action by his mental illness) and i was lied to about it for years and years..but i always knew the truth..or some version of it. I honestly believe that if all these things didn't happen to me, especially in such a concentrated time period and at such a young age..i may never have developed such severe social anxiety.. but just remained shy without ever crossing the line into a mental illness. It all just seemed to be the perfect conditions to develop a mental illness.

While i don't know if there is any truth to this, but i believe my fears are made much more realistic by my extremely overactive imagination.. which hasn't seemed to fade much since childhood, but has become quite a lot darker! But i can't say that my fears and anxieties stem from my imagination. Maybe an overactive imagination is actually a bi-product of such issues? Or maybe my imagination is type related. I do find it difficult to separate my anxieties from my type sometimes.

Also, it seems to me that many mental illnesses are so very close in nature that they seem to overlap somewhat. Like while i would say that my main problem is social anxiety.. i do have agoraphobic and ocd tendencies.. but not nearing the severity of the anxiety...or of other people who's main issue is agoraphobia or OCD..which i've seen first hand (i have an agoraphobic family member and an ex with OCD). I also have a very close friend who is a hypochondriac... and i really can't wrap my mind around it.. but at the basic level of uncontrolled worries that run away with you and you can't control no matter how much logic you use..i can understand that.

Do you think you have a genetic predisposition for mental illness? Or any events that could have triggered it?


EDIT: I don't know if i think these issues can be "fixed"..especially through talking. I think they can become manageable though Cognitive-Behavioral Therpy and/or certain medications .. or at least i hope!
 

guesswho

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Chemicals making thoughts pop in your head.

This is so fucked up :laugh::laugh:

And the neurons develop as you develop, so maybe their biology is also dependent on what happens in the outer world, if something bad happens, it will reflect inside the brain.
So even though the neurons are fucked up, in the right context, they can be OK.
And neurons which were initially OK, in the "right" context, can get fucked up.

weird. nature builds weird things.
 

Cat_Cloud

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I've been down a similar path, only I saw that in any given situation there's basically an infinite number of things that could happen, especially if you are the one saying/doing the "thing." Of course, the vast majority of actions will ellicite no interesting or meaningful response. This just opens up the number of possibilities from one perspective that could be taken. I have a lot of SJ friends, and when I go on my Ne "there-are-acutally-a-limitless-number-of-things-that-could-happen-so-we-should-all-wear-our-clothes-backwards" trips they just stare at me and assume I've had too much sugar...

Seeing too many possiblities paralyzed me mentally for a while. Too much to do, too much that could happen. In the end I couldn't be productively, both in my head or in day-to-day tasks.
 

Kuthtuk

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I'm not an NT, but i'm gonna respond to this anyway.. hope ya don't mind.

Not a NT!? BURN HER!! Evil heretic Witch...

Just kiding! =D

Well I have a serious problem...
I'm an ENTP + Atention Deficit + Lately diagnosticated with level 7 depression (scale from 0 to 10)

And take note... thoughts can realy cause a shit storm in your head, i mean when i realy do hardcore thinking (when i get more I then E) dude... shit hits the fan. I think that most NT can relate to that cause allot of descriptions regarding NT say can "enter the world of thought"... Bull, we live in the world of thought completely fueled by imagination and when we point to a negative direction we just can't "turn off" the thinking and get on with our lives like other types, we hammer on all the possiblilities good or bad. Another thing I find amusing is when people think we can "Forsee" the future (in a very blury way), it's just when we think of something we try to dissect the thought into every single possibility...

The blessing and the curse T_T
 

guesswho

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Does it ever happen to you to look at all the possibilities of a specific situation and still act as if you haven't thought of anything. I mean I think of what can happen...but it doesn't change what I've decided.
 

Kuthtuk

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Does it ever happen to you to look at all the possibilities of a specific situation and still act as if you haven't thought of anything. I mean I think of what can happen...but it doesn't change what I've decided.

Defnetly! Like you've been pondering and thinking for ages to come to a single conclusion... you know nothing.
 

Serendipity

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I don't do the imagination openly anymore. I had an impulse to throw a scissor at the wall because it'd turn into a flower and paint the wall yellow with pink spots if I did. Or the possibility was there. They got so mad at me when I said what I thought about. People are so easily mad. I wonder if they apply all their thoughts to reality. I'd understand their madness then.

I think all can relate to the world of thought. Feelers just don't trust it. That's probably the difference. Thus preferences.
I don't know. Maybe you relate, maybe you don't, maybe this blues is gettin' me high.
 

guesswho

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I had an impulse to throw a scissor at the wall because it'd turn into a flower and paint the wall yellow with pink spots if I did. Or the possibility was there. They got so mad at me when I said what I thought about.

That actually happened?
 

Serendipity

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That actually happened?

The part of throwing or the mentioning of it to others so my best friend got really mad about how I could damage the apartment and make him pay for it all?
Not the first part but the thought and the consequences of that thought when spoken of, yes.


EDIT: realized I had already said I didn't throw it so that first part is mooooot.
 

PH.

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I can relate to your story on some parts, but not everything. It really sucks though..

During bad times I tend to stop talking to people, and that's when I "enter" my thought world. I can come up with the most rediculous theory's and my view of the world is completely distorted. I thought that I must had borderline personality disorder, because "clearly" everything added up to that. I also began to think strange things about my friends and the people around me, how everything was pretend and not real. The only thing that was real was me and the world of my thoughts. How everything was just in my head.

Basically, you can make up your own world and everyone does to some extent. It just gets dangerous when you isolate yourself from the rest of society so your brain can go haywire on thoughts. In my experience it helps a lot to talk to people. Talking and interacting with your environment "brings you back", so to say. To go back to the borderline personality example; in the evening of the day I thought of that I talked with a friend about how stuff was being difficult and during that conversation I came to my senses. In retrospect of my thought process regarding the BPD I thought: what an absolute nonsense. How could I even think that?

I never had OCD tendencies though, but I think it is more of a psychological thing than a physiological. In my case talking to people really drags me back to reality, but everyone has his or her own ways to do that. I hope you find yours soon :)
 

guesswho

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Yes, talking to people helps. In most cases people will actually relate to what you say...even though initially you would have thought they wouldn't. And when somebody relates to what you say everything changes. When you know you're not the only one.

A bad situation will always turn worse if you isolate yourself, even though..it actually seems like a good solution initially.

And then you realize how distorted the initial perception of the situation was.

Strange things happen when people are stressed...
 

PH.

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Relating to people is the thing what brings me back indeed... :)

I also isolate myself whenever I have a problem. I like to solve things on my own and even sometimes think it's weak if you can't. It gives a feeling of incompetence.. horrible xD

What I dislike about stress is that it is irrational and unpredictable and people do weird things... I avoid stressed people (IRL anyway, I can handle them online pretty well) and am scared of myself when I act out of stress rather than thoughtful consideration. It feels like being an unguided projectile and there's nothing you can do about it because you don't know or understand how you're feeling. That was one of the hardest things to learn in my teens. I was primarily focused on my Ti and blocked out everything that wasn't tangible or concrete. Therefor, since my feelings weren't really tangible, they weren't real to me. My thought processes were quite strange at that time xD (little off topic maybe)
 

guesswho

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Eh...who cares about the topic...it's the interesting that matters :laugh:

Stress does trigger irrational thoughts...it's actually the main cause of irrational thought. For instance if something REALLY BAD happens one's mind cannot fully comprehend/accept the situation, even more if it's unlikely...and so...you get a lot of denial and irrational shit going on. I find these things quite fascinating.

I avoid negative people...I know a guy he usually sees the bad side of things...and the funny part is that...when bad things actually happen he denies them and laughs ...ridiculous. I remember telling him...HEY you can be worried now!! Things are bad!!!! :laugh:

I also tend to isolate myself when I have a problem, for a while...then I open up.
 
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