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  1. #1

    Thumbs up Long, weird on/off interaction with an ENTP and an INFJ: Help?

    Decided to post this in the NT section as I typically find the INFJs in this position to be as confused and helpless as I feel here :p

    So. After reading the latest of many ENTP INFJ threads last night, I decided that I should make one entailing my circumstance as an INFJ (guy), with an ENTP (gal), which is driving me crazy from trying to understand it.

    I came across this persons myspace page back in 2007 or 2008 ish, and could tell from what was splayed throughout their page that this person was incredible to me. We started talking over AIM and then onto the phone where we had this conversation that was very.. sensational.

    Intellectual sex, really. It left me with a hunger for that person that has never gone away. She stimulates me in a way that nobody ever has; and that is saying a lot for me; somebody insatiable and highly experienced in intellectual and emotional intimacy.

    This person was, however, always really distant with me outside of those moments of connection. Consistently not responding to me, or not following through on committments to call me etc.

    Nevertheless, I had an excuse to travel to an event (hi-fi audio convention) an hour away from her, and made plans with her to visit and stay with her for about a week. She did, at the time, have a boyfriend, but had seemed very confident and comfortable with my staying there while in town so that we could meet and spend some time. So, with her confirmation, I booked the flight and waited for the time to come.

    In the last few days before traveling to meet this person, they told me that I couldn't stay with them anymore; that they were extremely busy with their schoolwork and simply didn't have the time for me now. This fucked me over as I had nowhere to stay until my return flight. We did, however, meet up for a day and spent it walking around the city doing our intellectual thing. She shared things about her current relationship and where she was in life and how things felt. I sponged it all up with eyes that I am sure were themselves smiling at her.

    Alas the time came for her to take her train home (we spent the day at a midway point between her school and her home) where we hugged and parted ways. She gave me her train ticket stub, which I still have.

    I was extremely torn-up by this point. The only reasons I refrained from kissing her that day was that I didn't want to send her life into chaos, nor to thrust myself into a position of potentially having to compete with another guy, but one who actually lived near her, even went to school with her. Nevertheless, I was internally lamenting the possibility of having missed an incredible chance that she may have been giving me by meeting me; it was shakespearian in scope, but genuinely felt. After wandering around the train station, internalized, with my suitcase lazily following me, I called another friend I knew in the area from the internet and got to meet her and stay at her place for the night; the next train home wouldn't arrive until the next day.

    On the way home my shakespearian lamentations returned to me as I sat alone and vulnerable in the last car of the train. Daylight leaving, I stared out of the back window and watched that person, that experience, that opportunity as it drifted further and further away.

    After being back home and settled, things were back to usual rather than being in any way furthered. And, shortly, we would get into some kind of impasse where I was too perturbed by her distance (which to me felt inhumane and nonsensical with what I knew of the situation) and she actually blocked me on AIM and ceased contact with me. I left her an e-mail where I tried to be understanding and to leave things on a note that I knew she was out there, somewhere, being herself, radiant as that was, and that I would never stop appreciating her.

    Then we didn't talk for a few years. I thought of her less and less as time passed, but still I would, here, and there.

    But it was to my great surprise that I be approached by them over facebook out of the blue only some months prior to this story telling of today. She had to put in work to track me down, too; delving years back into her inbox to find a link to my name from the messages we had exchanged. She wanted to know if I would be okay with talking to her. She wanted to say that she was sorry for being a coward with me before. That she was afraid to let herself connect with me the way she wanted to, that it would have overtaken her life and interfered w/ith some very serious goals she was working on with school and her future. That a lot has changed about her.

    Since then, I've been watching her like a hawk. During our gap, I had a lot go on in my lovelife, including a fiance that left me, and I am in a pretty wary place when it comes to investing myself in another. I don't trust her as far as I can throw her. But, she has opened up to me more than ever, certainly. She has let me in on how crummy she has been feeling lately (she is doing better now) and her self-doubts, as well as things such as that she can be "manipulative", and that she has a boyfriend she is using to deflect her huge pool of emotions that she feels for another man that she is madly in love with, but who is a rock that won't really receive her.

    It has also been her idea, to come visit me. And she has booked the flight. And she is supposed to be here in a few weeks. And I have nothing even close to a certainty as to how I fit into either my history with her, nor the present with her. Particularly given her romantic situation. I mean she told me that she wants to have this guys babies, and not in any way as a joke. I don't even trust that she'll actually end up taking her flight and showing up here. But I know that a lot of me wants to be negative and doubtful to protect itself from being able to invest in the possibilities.

    This week alone, she has, of her own volition, said that she'll call me, on three seperate instances. She did not follow through on any of them. She said her phone was "incapacitated" on one of the occasions and apologized then, but not a peep for the others.

    Because I've been reading so much on ENTPs and the ENTP INFJ dynamics, I've been able to apply a lot more patience here rather than being mister all-or-nothing with this kind of behavior, which is how I have acted in the past with her. I'll feel a lot more comfortable exploring the situation when she gets here and is infront of me, where I can watch her eyes and maybe bring up some things where she isn't likely to escape them.

    Additionally, she has told me that she has realized recently that she can really be a coward, and it was in this breath that she told me about the current love obsession of hers, and in the same breath still that she suggested (and did) booking a flight to see me. She has said that there are parts about me she'd like to rub off on herself (which she noted as sounding dirty, lol). She has also told me that I make her feel like shit. And I have never really understood how that is; I think it is to do with my expectations of not being blown-off constantly and being upset by it.

    We even had a split off moment where she thought she had to go back to college for another class and so she wouldn't be able to visit me; she was mad and left and was offering her flight to others. I was done with the unreliability and told her goodbye. Surprisingly, she asked me to stay and to please accept her.

    I know she has an issue with the idea of a distanced relationship; and I would want nothing more than to bridge that gap, eliminating the circumstance. But it makes it harder for her to allow herself to invest in the idea of me. Where as I don't even begin to feel that limitation, at least, not as an impairment to my pursuit. This issue also inhibits her ability to think that I know who she actually is to any extent large enough that I should feel about her the way that I do, thus invalidating my attraction to her altogether. At times. But I think this is her hiding, and I think that she may have caught onto this by now.

    I really want to see her insides so that I know what is going on here, and how to handle it. So I'm keeping quiet and trying to be understanding of some of our differences in personality, while the day draws nearer that I may get to the bottom of things. It has always been established, understood and felt that we have a romantic interest in each other. That we both have a very very serious interest in connecting extremely with another person, and that we both, on record, have expressed that we think we can do that with each other. I can't forget the spark that was there in our eye contact, in our diarrhetically passionate intellectual exchanges with body language and words.

    Does this not sound confusing for me? Thanks for actually trucking through this mammoth of an odd story; and doubly so if you have any thoughts or help about what's going on, or what to do. I care very much for the possibilities of even a friendship, let alone more, with this person, and I really want to play my cards right. I'm willing to be aggressive, or passive; whatever I need to be, without crossing my lines of being true to myself.

    A friend of mine thinks that I am am a "meal" for this person and she thinks it with quite a lot of conviction that I really have to heed. They think that I should refrain from complimenting them the way I naturally would, as they already think themselves to be awesome. And that I should put up some kind of fight and create a rockier interaction rather than the smooth one they would be expecting to get out of me. As intelligible as the case was made, it feels like game-playing to me, and if that's not cool with me. But I can't help noticing that the one person she does seem to be gaga for so far in life, is a rock that rejects her.

    Even within being an INFJ, I am really good about knowing people and what's going on in this kind of relationship; but I feel in the dark here and it's a very uncomfortable place to be :p

  2. #2
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    6w5 sx/sp


    Wow that was almost a TL;DR for me, but it was so well-written I stuck through to the end.
    Speaking from the perspective of a romantically-battered INTJ, I feel as if you're setting yourself up for a fall here. She's already expressed that she is madly in love with someone other than her boyfriend, who she admits she is using; thus, she has the propensity for utilitarian relationships. She has flaked out on big things and small things, more so than standard ENxPs usually do, which means she's not reliable. On top of that, she's proved fickle and flighty. (blocking you for a year or more? Yeah, that's a bad sign) This has all the earmarks of a one-sided romance, where she can dump all of her problems and messed up situations on you and feel better about herself, while you're left with your unrequited feelings for her AND all of her problems. Seeing as the entirety of my most recent relationship was this, I can guarantee you that it's not healthy or fun to be in one like it, and it will only end in bitterness and resentment.

    You are also already having doubts, which is never a good sign in these types of relationships. For that, I say go with your gut and stay away from her, or at least distance yourself. Her treatment of you already screams friendzone any way, to be brutally honest. (I dislike having to put it in such a harsh way, but that's really what it looks like) You seem like a decent sort of guy, so I feel like you should wait out for someone who'll treat you better than she will. By all means, be friends, but don't expect anything deeper than that out of her.
    Ego Reparate; Ob Me Non Deficiat.
    INTJ - RCOEI - sx/sp/so - Tritype: 683 (6w5-8w9-3w4) - True Neutral
    "Yeah, wisdom always chooses/These black eyes and these bruises"
    "Over the heartache that they say/Never completely goes away..."

  3. #3
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009


    She's using you. Don't let her get any closer without jumping through some significant hoops and ladders. At this point, she's got to prove herself to you, and not the other way around.

    Personally, I'd say blow her off, and move on. Plenty of fish in the sea.

  4. #4
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    827 sp/so


    you're better off getting out now than getting strung along emotionally for a longer period of time. This person is using you to stroke her ego- if someone's TRYING to keep you at an arms length (or farther away) it is NOT an indication that they want for anything to happen except for what's happening now... receiving flattery. Sorry that you got caught up with it, but there's a lot of other people out there and you'll find someone who wants to be with you for who YOU are instead of for what you can do for THEM
    “The phrase 'Someone ought to do something' was not, by itself, a helpful one. People who used it never added the rider 'and that someone is me'.” - Terry Pratchett

  5. #5
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    1w2 so/sx


    INFJs are suckers for a good human puzzle, they don't get attracted to just anyone so overassume that it must mean something, and they dig intellect. They also see potential and have difficulty setting rigid boundaries. All of these traits are fine in small amounts, but it can mean that we accept poor behaviour much longer than we should just because we want to follow the thread through to the end and in the process we've gotten really emotionally invested in making it work.

    I think there are usually explainable reasons for people's behaviour and for an INFJ that tends to allow them to excuse some of it in an effort to be reasonable and understanding. Insecurities or selfishness on one person's part doesn't make it any less destructive, even if it is understandable and evokes sympathy.

    A big red flag is this woman's constant need for back up of some sort while she is dating someone. She's booking flights or encouraging others to, going after unreceptive men, looking up email addresses from could've been relationships long in the past, all while professing to love the person she is with (in this case to the point of considering spawning babies). It looks to me like this is an ego boost to reassure herself, and also a way of hedging her bets in case the guy she's with rejects her eventually. She has beckoned you forward enough in two separate cases and the moment that it is actually happening, she turns flaky and starts to care greatly about other pursuits. Whether this is fear or whether it is her conscience kicking in, I can't see anything coming to you other than heartbreak through pursuing someone who is in this kind of emotional state.

  6. #6
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    May 2009


    I have also found the advice in here profoundly helpful. Good luck StarsPer
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  7. #7
    Junior Member Stryfe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009


    First off, you write very well. Not many people can write that much about their personal life and keep the reader interested.

    I agree with what others here have said. This girl is trouble and you at the very least need to keep your emotional shields up when interacting with her. Not only was she trouble when you first talked to her a few years ago but now a significant amount of time has past and she's only made her life more complicated while not correcting her personality flaws in the slightest.

    I mean, she's with a guy she's serious enough about to want to have children with. She's also "madly in love" with another guy who won't give her the time of day (likely because he realizes what a bad idea that would be). And at the same time she's restablished contact and expressed feelings for you. Alarm bells should be going off. This girl doesn't know what the hell she wants and as a result she's unable to commit to any of her choices.

    To look at it another way, suppose the two of you did get together. How would you trust that she doesn't have two or three other men dangling along hoping one day she'll realize they're the one she should be with? She's doing it now, she was doing it three years ago, why would you expect her behavior would change?

    I realize she's probably wonderful on the surface. But if you're going to continue to have anything to do with her and especially if you're going to hold out hope for a romantic relationship you have to get it in your mind that she's the one who has everything to prove here. Be a friend but hold her at arms length until a time when she gets her life in order, don't let her play your feelings for her into the onesided relationship she seems to be trying to create now.

    I wish you the best, these can be trying situations and emotions can easily cloud good judgement.

  8. #8


    Aw man, I know it might be difficult to push your feelings aside on this one, but there's absolutely no reason to continue to have a relationship with this girl.

    She's using you because she's probably realised she's at a point in her life where she doesn't have any firm ground to stand on and so she's latching on to you (a vague, shadowy figure of her past "what could have been"). She's hoping that you'll be able to deliver her from the mess she's made of her life (which you probably won't). And I don't mean "deliver" in a romantic way. More in a distraction-from-her-problems way. The truth is, she's hoping that anyone will be able to do that. And perhaps because you're a vague, shadowy "what could have been," you could be someone who will go along with it.

    At any rate, SHE should be proving herself to be worthy of YOU and your attention and effort. So focus on that. Use leverage in this situation. INFJ guys are rare and awesome - be confident in that. And know that lots of other girls will think that, too. Don't be afraid to pick from the head, not the heart (just as perhaps I should learn how to not be afraid to pick from my heart, instead of my head).

    It doesn't make you a rock, it just makes you more balanced.

  9. #9
    Junior Member Cat_Cloud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011


    For me, the creepiest part is that she bothered to search through all of her e-mail just so she could contact you an entire year after rejecting you. I agree with the others; distance yourself. Also, this was well written. Just think, if she could reject a rare INFJ guy who is an intellectual and writes beautifully is she really worth it?

    Besides, from what you've said, most of the problems seem centered around her. I've had this problem in relationships before, where all we ever seemed to talk about was the other person's issues (I'm assuming you guys spend a sizeable amount of time on this... correct me if I'm wrong). These relationships usually fizzed out and I was left feeling used. When she feels better about her relationships (if she ever does... she seems fickle) she'll probably leave.

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

  10. #10
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    6w5 sp/sx


    Sorry you are going through this. This is an incredibly push-pull situation, and I think that ENTPs (and this person sounds very "unhealthy") are good at setting up push-pull, and INFJs are very good at being strung along by it. It keeps our interest alive, it provides an unhealthy sense of mystery, it keeps us off balance, makes us see potential where maybe there isn't much, keeps hope alive...? Well, I'm speaking for myself, but perhaps this sounds familiar.

    I'm not sure what you should do though, except detach. But that is so much easier said than done. I'm hardly one to talk. Maybe be very blunt with her about all the mixed messages you are getting...

    EDIT: I really sympathize with you on a lot of this, btw. I understand the power of a major intellectual attraction and the kind of quasi-erotic vibe this can set up...very very hard to resist. But the trouble with us INFJs, as Fidelia and others pointed out, is that we can get utterly fascinated and drawn in and realise when it's kind of too late that we are utterly and disproportionately over-invested. Whereas the other person...well, maybe they do care about us to a certain extent, but they are too deep in their own issues to be a healthy partner or even a healthy friend for us. Or they just aren't into us nearly as much as we're into them - that intellectual-emotional-erotic vibe doesn't mean nearly as much to them. Or sometimes, maybe they do love us, but they are too confused and (dare I say it) messed up to be able to deal with it properly. And we wouldn't be able to deal with it properly either.

    I'm starting to realise that as powerful as those vibes can be, as much as you may feel in those moments like you're never going to have such a strong connection with someone again...the important things in a potential relationship are that the other person is willing and available to commit to you and the relationship, strongly and personally. That love and commitment will mean more than all the vibes. I'm telling myself this, a lot. Unfortunately, you can feel an amazing connection with someone who is still using you, or too confused, or just wouldn't be good for you for whatever reason.
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


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