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[ENTP] Christian ENTPs?

What is your view on religion as an ENTP?

  • I am Christian and very serious about it

    Votes: 11 26.2%
  • I'm Christian...whateva

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • I was raised Christian and came to my senses

    Votes: 13 31.0%
  • Christians freak me the funk out, stay away!

    Votes: 4 9.5%
  • I'm down with the Buddha

    Votes: 3 7.1%
  • I'm Muslim

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • Judaism is my thing

    Votes: 3 7.1%
  • Athists are better lovers

    Votes: 8 19.0%
  • Agnostics are fearless lovers

    Votes: 12 28.6%
  • Dude, what the hell, you forgot mine!

    Votes: 5 11.9%

  • Total voters
    42

INTP

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Well aren't you presumptuous! :laugh:

In what ways does being an Ne dom make someone more inclined to irrationality?

Ne is irrational function and tert Fe can make entp act in really irrational ways when pissed off a little
 

guesswho

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The word irrational is used in the MBTI with a similar connotation as "thinking" and "feeling".
 

INTP

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The word irrational is used in the MBTI with a similar connotation as "thinking" and "feeling".

the word irrational isnt used in mbti, jung used it in his typology.

"both intuition and sensing are functions that find fulfilment in the absolute perception of the flux of events. Hence, by their very nature, they will react to every possible occurrence and be attuned to the absolute contingent, and must therefore lack all rational direction. For this reason i call them irrational functions, as opposed to thinking and feeling, which find fulfilment only when they are in complete harmony with the laws of reason."

now you have to understand that perception isnt absolutely all that is, its just an interpretation of what is, or in other words its what seems to be.

now when you lead with Ne and use Ti as secondary function you check this what seems to be with Ti less than what INTP does, therefore leading into irrational decisions more often because leaning more on the perception(that is subjective and might not be intune with what actually is, but is just an perception of what seems to be from your point of view).

then there is tert Fe that will go apeshit crazy pretty easily when annoyed and making the person act in really irrational(not in jungs description, but in general sense of irrationality) ways and making non rational quick judgments and make you act on them.
 

guesswho

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I do not understand.

1. What does being Ne dominant mean?
2. What does Ne being irrational mean?

Does being governed by a irrational function make me irrational? Why is it irrational? Because it is non linear and processes everything without priority?

Saying I am an ENTP is incorrect.
Saying I have an ENTP preference is correct.

What is the difference?

In the second case fluctuation is possible so I prefer Extraversion, but I am not 100% extraverted. Therefor I will also swtich to introversion, but it won't last as long as extraversion, and maybe it will not be equally enjoyable. (just because I have a 55%-60% preference towards extraversion, it does not mean that the rest of 40%-45% introversion is non existent)
I find it hard to believe that a person with a specific type preference, has the same dominant function all the time.

So in other words, just because I don't prefer Ti over Ne, it does not necessarily mean that I do not use it as primary.

But this still makes me prefer an irrational function, and I have difficulty understanding why it's considered irrational.

The only answer I found is that Jung uses the word irrational with a different connotation.
"Lacking all rational direction?"

"then there is tert Fe that will go apeshit crazy pretty easily when annoyed"
Will all ENTPs do that?
 

onemoretime

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There's a reason why the movies began to suck more and more as they progressed.

Because you didn't agree with them anymore? Because they no longer gave you a reason to think you were better than others, or had special knowledge that they didn't?

Or because it was impossible to hide the suckiness of Keanu Reeves' acting over three movies?
 

Totenkindly

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I can define it however I choose to define it. For the sake of conversation...possession of a vagina. It's an incomplete definition..but that conversation just boils down to semantics..

My point is..lack of evidence is not evidence.

Lack of evidence can't be a reason to make a positive claim.

I think this is actually a fallacy..let me look it up..it probably explains what I'm trying to say a lot better.

It's okay. I was being whimsical. :)

In general, I already agree with you that lack of evidence can't be a reason to make a positive claim, it can only be a circumstantial case.

But okay, let's look at it again for a second:
So yes..it is illogical to believe something is true just because it can't be proven false.
It is illogical for someone to believe I am a girl just because he or she can't prove I am not a girl.
It is illogical for someone to believe that there is a god just because he or she can't prove that there isn't one.

How one defines "girl" could provide quantifiable evidence that you are indeed a girl.
If the definition of girl is merely "someone with XX sex chromosomes" (the validity of which can be argued elsewhere, this is just an example), then all one has to do is get the desired data and make a determination. It's plausible with that definition to decide if you are indeed a girl.

"God" is far more nebulous, especially considering how the more quantifiable something or someone is, the less likely we'll see them as a god. One can hedge the definition of "god" to be more quantifiable, but then run the risk of alienating listeners who recognize the definition as the sham it likely is.

Because you didn't agree with them anymore? Because they no longer gave you a reason to think you were better than others, or had special knowledge that they didn't?

Matrix 1 was a real great "Christian-laden" story. A lot of allegory line up with the basic Christian philosophy.

Matrix 2 & 3 began to deviate from that.
The focus of 2 was "cause and effect / casuality / determinism."
The focus of 3 was essentially "balance/cycles."

I can see why a Christian might not be able to identify as much with 2 and 3, although conceptually I very much liked all the movies.

Or because it was impossible to hide the suckiness of Keanu Reeves' acting over three movies?

Well, my dissatisfactions with #2 & #3 did center around (a) Keanu Reeve's crappy acting ability and (b) in #3, the cut-and-dried closure/cut-scenes of the story, plus the cheesy Ewok "OMG we're all saved let's gush" ending.

let's face it, Christianity is linear in how the story is typically told today by the conservatives. There is a beginning, there is an ending, and everything is about following the through-line and reaching the happy ending. Balance? there is no balance. The world was good and supposed to be that way; then the world turned bad, and we have to restore the world to good.

The Matrix is far more eastern, with its overriding deterministic elements, the continual recycling/rebirth concept, and the need for good and evil to balance since they are just part of the same whole.... although I still think it merges those elements with Christian-style elements such as sacrifice / giving up control / accepting one's fate out of faith, etc. There were still many things i could identify with, Christianity-wise, in the latter two.
 

INTP

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I do not understand.

1. What does being Ne dominant mean?
2. What does Ne being irrational mean?

Does being governed by a irrational function make me irrational? Why is it irrational? Because it is non linear and processes everything without priority?

Saying I am an ENTP is incorrect.
Saying I have an ENTP preference is correct.

What is the difference?

Ne dominant means that you have strongest preference to use Ne from all functions.

read the quote from jungs psychological types and other stuff from last post i posted and you should understand why P functions are irrational.

saying that you are an ENTP is correct, because ENTP is defined by having strongest preference to use Ne and second strongest using Ti.

saying that you have preference for ENTP means that you prefer having ENTP as SO or that you prefer them as friends, or you prefer working with them or what ever. you dont prefer to be an ENTP, you are an ENTP because you prefer Ne and Ti, but Ne over Ti.

In the second case fluctuation is possible so I prefer Extraversion, but I am not 100% extraverted. Therefor I will also swtich to introversion, but it won't last as long as extraversion, and maybe it will not be equally enjoyable. (just because I have a 55%-60% preference towards extraversion, it does not mean that the rest of 40%-45% introversion is non existent)
I find it hard to believe that a person with a specific type preference, has the same dominant function all the time.

So in other words, just because I don't prefer Ti over Ne, it does not necessarily mean that I do not use it as primary.

But this still makes me prefer an irrational function, and I have difficulty understanding why it's considered irrational.

The only answer I found is that Jung uses the word irrational with a different connotation.
"Lacking all rational direction?"

"then there is tert Fe that will go apeshit crazy pretty easily when annoyed"
Will all ENTPs do that?

Everyone uses extraverted and introverted functions, so ofc you use introverted functions also, even those who score 100% E does.

you have primary preference for Ne, but ofc you can use it primarily on some specific things.

you are not an irrational function, you just prefer P function(that jung says being irrational, but having a bit different meaning for irrationa, than what irrational is considered in normal speech) over J function. read my last post to understand why it is considered as irrational function and what irrational function means.

the function lacks all rational direction, because it doesent reason, but ENTP is capable of reasoning with other functions. ENTPs just dont reason with rational function as much as INTP or INFP does. but naturally there are differences on people, like some INTP might score(from scale 0-100) only 30 Ti and ENTP might score 40 Ti, this means that the ENTP has stronger Ti than the INTP, but the ENTP has stronger Ne than Ti. It can even be like 40 Ti and 41 Ne, that would mean that the ENTP has balanced use for Ne and Ti, but because Ne is higher, he will be typed as ENTP, even tho his Ti is high also. this would mean that the ENTP with 41 Ne and 40 Ti would reason his irrational(irrational in jungs term) intuitions more than ENTP with 50 Ne and 30 Ti for example.

Not all ENTPs are easily annoyed to go into irrational rage mode, but generally they go in it easier than INTP for example, due to tert Fe.
 

freeeekyyy

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6 people have responded thus far saying they're ENTP and serious about Christianity yet not a single one has posted a comment.

I wasn't trying to start a faith debate as much as I was trying to find a Christian ENTP who didn't mind having a conversation on the topic. Hell, I'll take any Ne dom as my main question relates to Ne and faith.
There was one. If you look back to the third page, Nerdgirl responded and said she's a Christian ENTP.
 

guesswho

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Ne is considered irrational because it isn't used for judgement.
Yes, makes perfect sense.

I don't know why I started rambling unrelated things.
 

EcK

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There was one. If you look back to the third page, Nerdgirl responded and said she's a Christian ENTP.

Yeah, but you can't really trust anything crazy people say now, can you.
 

EcK

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Do you believe there's nobody in Argentina named Robert because you haven't met him?
With arguments like that you could argue the case for winged galaxy sized bees, living poo, zombies, unicorns, that my gardener is a triceratops, that ... if all your points do is to say that yes there's always a chance, in a perfect, infinite multiverse with an infinity of different physical properties that whatever you can think of will exist, then yep, it works.

When your arguments and beliefs about the universe defy all peer reviewable(not necessarily scientists, just something that can be checked) observations, why do you think it's the universe which's wrong. Yet science and reason is always, somehow, the arrogant one, for daring not agreeing with unsubstanciated delusions. If you need a dad-in-the-sky then of course i'll never treat you as an adult.

who told them something which you don't know?
So.. hearing voices in your head then ?
Or are you just arguing the case for all the saint and strait jacket wearing lunatics out there
 

freeeekyyy

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With arguments like that you could argue the case for winged galaxy sized bees, living poo, zombies, unicorns, that my gardener is a triceratops, that ... if all your points do is to say that yes there's always a chance, in a perfect, infinite multiverse with an infinity of different physical properties that whatever you can think of will exist, then yep, it works.
Nobody sane claims to know living poo, winged galaxy sized bees, unicorns, etc. If you're going to seriously try to claim that over a billion people are actually insane, you'd better get working on it.

When your arguments and beliefs about the universe defy all peer reviewable(not necessarily scientists, just something that can be checked) observations, why do you think it's the universe which's wrong.
Do you really think I care who says what? Really?


So.. hearing voices in your head then ?
Or are you just arguing the case for all the saint and strait jacket wearing lunatics out there
Since you know what everybody else has experienced better than they do, you tell me what I'm hearing.
 

onemoretime

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Matrix 1 was a real great "Christian-laden" story. A lot of allegory line up with the basic Christian philosophy.

Matrix 2 & 3 began to deviate from that.
The focus of 2 was "cause and effect / casuality / determinism."
The focus of 3 was essentially "balance/cycles."

I can see why a Christian might not be able to identify as much with 2 and 3, although conceptually I very much liked all the movies.

Well, my dissatisfactions with #2 & #3 did center around (a) Keanu Reeve's crappy acting ability and (b) in #3, the cut-and-dried closure/cut-scenes of the story, plus the cheesy Ewok "OMG we're all saved let's gush" ending.

let's face it, Christianity is linear in how the story is typically told today by the conservatives. There is a beginning, there is an ending, and everything is about following the through-line and reaching the happy ending. Balance? there is no balance. The world was good and supposed to be that way; then the world turned bad, and we have to restore the world to good.

The Matrix is far more eastern, with its overriding deterministic elements, the continual recycling/rebirth concept, and the need for good and evil to balance since they are just part of the same whole.... although I still think it merges those elements with Christian-style elements such as sacrifice / giving up control / accepting one's fate out of faith, etc. There were still many things i could identify with, Christianity-wise, in the latter two.

What's ironic is that the Christian elements of the Matrix were specifically Gnostic Christian elements - something the various churches have frowned upon since the fourth century AD. The only aspect that really corresponds to modern Christianity is the whole "dying and coming back" thing, but that really doesn't, after all, since Jesus willingly went to Calvary, while Neo got unlucky.
 

Domino

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I love this thread and it is going to have my babies.
 

Totenkindly

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What's ironic is that the Christian elements of the Matrix were specifically Gnostic Christian elements - something the various churches have frowned upon since the fourth century AD. The only aspect that really corresponds to modern Christianity is the whole "dying and coming back" thing, but that really doesn't, after all, since Jesus willingly went to Calvary, while Neo got unlucky.

While I typically agree with that (and it's one reason why I don't have much issue with it, because I'm probably more gnostic in my leanings), there's a lot of pragmatic rubber-meets-road stuff in there. If there is anything evangelicals love, it is pithy, individual bits of concrete symbolism, so you get one guy telling Neo that he's his own "personal Jesus Christ," you get someone named Trinity bringing "Jesus" back to life, you get what amounts to demons (agents) body-hopping, the speeches about how the world is an illusion and there is a deeper reality, about how the world is against the Elect (who happen to be anchored in Zion) because they are of the world but it's not their fault... they're just blind... comments about "walking the walk and talking the talk," etc. The list is kind of endless, but it's actually all stuff I have heard within evangelical circles in sermons and conferences during my time there. So the movie sort of swiped a lot of language used in that modern Christian circle, which let it resonate with that group.

I can't begin to tell you how many of the evangelical (not fundie, but evangelical + more liberal) churches have used this movie in study group settings. It was hip AND resonant.
 

onemoretime

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Nobody sane claims to know living poo, winged galaxy sized bees, unicorns, etc. If you're going to seriously try to claim that over a billion people are actually insane, you'd better get working on it.

Argumentum ad populum? Really?

Do you really think I care who says what? Really?

Didn't you just say this:

Do you consider it absurd that a person may know somebody you don't, who told them something which you don't know?

earlier? How about this parallel question: do you consider it absurd that a person may know something you don't, that explains something that you don't understand?

Since you know what everybody else has experienced better than they do, you tell me what I'm hearing.

How the hell is he supposed to do that? No one's arguing over whether or not you're hearing something.
 

Perch420

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Do you believe there's nobody in Argentina named Robert because you haven't met him?

No, because I've met people named Robert and know it's a common name amongst native English speakers. Even though I've never been to Argentina, I have no reason to believe it doesn't exist: there's millions of pictures, articles, books, and movies made in and about Argentina. I've never met anything close to God and I have no reason to believe God exists. There's no empirical evidence for his existence and there isn't any a priori reasons to believe in his existence.
 

onemoretime

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While I typically agree with that (and it's one reason why I don't have much issue with it, because I'm probably more gnostic in my leanings), there's a lot of pragmatic rubber-meets-road stuff in there. If there is anything evangelicals love, it is pithy, individual bits of concrete symbolism, so you get one guy telling Neo that he's his own "personal Jesus Christ," you get someone named Trinity bringing "Jesus" back to life, you get what amounts to demons (agents) body-hopping, the speeches about how the world is an illusion and there is a deeper reality, about how the world is against the Elect (who happen to be anchored in Zion) because they are of the world but it's not their fault... they're just blind... comments about "walking the walk and talking the talk," etc. The list is kind of endless, but it's actually all stuff I have heard within evangelical circles in sermons and conferences during my time there. So the movie sort of swiped a lot of language used in that modern Christian circle, which let it resonate with that group.

Ah, yes. The same reasoning that takes Jesus from saying "if you want to enter the Kingdom, sell all your possessions, give the proceeds to the poor, and follow Me" to meaning that Jesus has no problem with rich people, and that God materially rewards the faithful on Earth. Riiiiiiiiight.

Essentially, the logic goes something like this - "I'm a Christian. I like X. Christians like Christian things. Therefore, X is Christian."
 

Perch420

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Nobody sane claims to know living poo, winged galaxy sized bees, unicorns, etc. If you're going to seriously try to claim that over a billion people are actually insane, you'd better get working on it.

Seriously? Is this the best you can do. The human mind is very susceptible to delusion.
 
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