[ENTP] Christian ENTPs?

[freeeekyyy]

The reasoning for this thread.

1. I'm an intuitive "rational."
2. I'm an atheist.
3. Therefore, non-atheists are irrational and sensors.


Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I don't have a clear type, but I have a probability distribution about my best types. ENTJ comes the top in probability, with about 21% chance, and ENTP second, with about 18% chance. Ok, lately, perhaps down to 15%, whereas ENTJ is up to about 30%.

I think it would be almost valid for me to answer this thing.

 

[Perch420]

The OP is extremely loaded. You clearly have issues with Christianity, and sound closed to the idea of others finding lasting merit in what you have imperially dismissed as tripe.

The definition of faith is hoping or believing in that which is unseen or not yet manifest. Faith doesn't need hard proof, it isn't a science, and it's not "irrational" in the sense of hysterics. A more apt word would be "illogical".

Believing in a better tomorrow, believing in the goodness of humanity, believing in the spiritual aspect of life and the miracle of our world and our bodies is in itself faith. I believe very strongly in God, in the existence of souls and their marks on the world even when their bodies are long gone in the dust, in good and evil. This does not make me hysterical, unthinking, strict or confining. Faith is like seeing the "not" or "and" in the problem, the gap, the void or blank space where something should be, like dark matter. You know it's there, and yet it has no name, no shape, no direct method of detection, and its influence is felt on everything. Even gravity is considered an "imaginary" or vaguely unanswerable force.

People who use religion - ANY belief system whatsoever - to corral, cage, cow, hamper, terrify or neglect is NOT, to me, something spiritual, but more what is called "the letter of the law" and not the spirit at all.

I don't know anything for certain, I don't know ultimate outcomes, I refuse to live my life in fear, and yes, I believe in a personal God that I can't always explain or even fully understand. I weigh my faith against the things I see and hear as proofs, I also take into account that some things cannot and will not ever be explained, I feel the numinous presence of the departed.

There is the "god spot" in the brain. There is a real faith. The balance must be struck by those who care to approach both. A critical understanding is needed regardless of what I think about God or Allah or anyone else for that matter.

I have a religious ENTP friend very close to me that makes me look like a woad-smeared heathen. It's not about type. (AGAIN)

There's a reason to believe in a better tommorow; the fact that human progress has been increasing exponentially over the last few hundred years. There's no reason whatsoever to believe in god.

 

[Perch420]

There is no "god spot" in the brain. Religion was an early attempt by humans to make sense of the world around them. Almost all ancient cultures had some sort of religious belief, but this isn't because humans are predisposed to religion; it's because humans are predisposed to ask "why?". With science and reason at our disposal, we don't have to make things up to explain the world around us. We don't need religion any more.

 

[Perch420]

But, without God there is no reason to love or admire anything... everything just is. Without God all value judgements (including what is beautiful) are completely subjective and just the result of chemical reactions in the human brain. Nothing more.

So? That's the truth. Would you believe a lie over a truth if the lie makes you feel better?

 

[Nicodemus]

So? That's the truth. Would you believe a lie over a truth if the lie makes you feel better?

He does.

 

[Perch420]

s it rational to say that everything came together just perfectly without a divine creator and poof there you are?

How the fuck is that less rational than thinking a deity sent himself in human form to be killed by himself in order to forgive his creations for committing sins he himself made up?

 

[Kuthtuk]

I'm no anti-god, i'm just pro-human =D

 

[Perch420]

Nearly every major religion or spiritual perspective has a clearly expressed rational basis which is well-substantiated in philosophical literature.

This is laughable.

 

[entropie]

I'm no anti-god, i'm just pro-human =D

Yet what do you do with humans who are pro-god ? In that moment this becomes a part of human nature aswell

 

[Perch420]

I guess there are no rational human beings then.
(Cuz I sure as hell can't believe that a generally rational person never has any irrational beliefs.)

I don't have any beliefs that I haven't thoroughly analyzed to make sure they're logically sound. Maybe I'm wrong about some of them, but that just means I haven't gotten enough empirical data to change my conclusion.

 

[Perch420]

I've learnt about the belief in christianity it's a choice you make for yourself, like the choice you have in choosing a partner. I never understand why it's always necessary to have so many arguements going on between believers and non-believers instead of just respecting everyone's position and that's it. Obviously there is a lot of need for arguements since christianity threads always polarize much and have mnany responses. I dont understand what it gives me tho to convince someone that there is no God who said before there is a God. I think western world makes it possible to accept different opinions and its up to everyone to choose. Am I so way off with thinking so ?

Religion is a burden on society and responsible for a huge amount of suffering and ignorance in the world today. If that's not a reason to attempt to argue people out of their beliefs, then I don't know what is.

 

[freeeekyyy]

I don't have any beliefs that I haven't thoroughly analyzed to make sure they're logically sound. Maybe I'm wrong about some of them, but that just means I haven't gotten enough empirical data to change my conclusion.

So you acknowledge that you could be wrong about some things, just not about the existence of a God. Why is that single belief free from your own self-criticism?

 

[freeeekyyy]

Religion is a burden on society and responsible for a huge amount of suffering and ignorance in the world today. If that's not a reason to attempt to argue people out of their beliefs, then I don't know what is.

Prove it.

 

[Perch420]

So you acknowledge that you could be wrong about some things, just not about the existence of a God. Why is that single belief free from your own self-criticism?

My reasons for not believing in God are a priori, so no. I've followed my logic and it's shown me that the Biblical Christian god cannot exist. It's impossible, because the bible is full of contradictions and logical inconsistencies. Furthermore, the idea of a benevolent, omniscient, omnipresent being is itself full of contradictions. There's been thousands of pages written on this already, so I won't waste my time telling you what they are. Here's one I guess: If god is benevolent, why does he allow suffering to occur? Is it because he gave humans free will? If so, how can you even take and give free will in the first place? If you can, it's not free will at all. Is it because our definition of suffering is too narrow and even though we might hit a pole every now and then, we are ultimately living the happiest lives we possibly can? This goes on and on but all the arguments from the theists' side are poorly made and full of confirmation bias and contradictions.

 

[Perch420]

Prove it.

What's there to prove? Look around you. There have been more atrocities perpetrated in the name of religion than anything else in the history of the human race.

 

[entropie]

Religion is a burden on society and responsible for a huge amount of suffering and ignorance in the world today. If that's not a reason to attempt to argue people out of their beliefs, then I don't know what is.

True but it gives meaning to a lot of peoples lifes at the same time. I mean it's hard to imagine but if you were in a hopeless situation like your wife will die, people some times turn to God for help, because they need someone. And it doesnt only need to be hopeless situations, if you think about this life from a purely rational standpoint, you could perceive it as pointless. Noone really likes to do a thing that he has to put great effort into and that is meaningless in the end. So religion can give meaning to peoples lifes who would otherwise maybe kill themselves out of desperation.

You cant really only say that religion is only responsible for a lot of evil without seeing that there's a flipside to the coin. I dont want to coerce you into becoming religious, I am only saying this topic is VERY complicated

 

[freeeekyyy]

My reasons for not believing in God are a priori, so no. I've followed my logic and it's shown me that the Biblical Christian god cannot exist. It's impossible, because the bible is full of contradictions and logical inconsistencies. Furthermore, the idea of a benevolent, omniscient, omnipresent being is itself full of contradictions. There's been thousands of pages written on this already, so I won't waste my time telling you what they are. Here's one I guess: If god is benevolent, why does he allow suffering to occur? Is it because he gave humans free will? If so, how can you even take and give free will in the first place? If you can, it's not free will at all. Is it because our definition of suffering is too narrow and even though we might hit a pole every now and then, we are ultimately living the happiest lives we possibly can? This goes on and on but all the arguments from the theists' side are poorly made and full of confirmation bias and contradictions.

I've read many of the arguments. I'm not as "uneducated" as you might think. I'd like to know your reasoning for the belief that "free will isn't free." In that context, free does not mean "given freely," it means your will is self-determined.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I have wondered if free will has been taken away by society due to the dichotomy we created of good and evil.

 

[entropie]

I have wondered if free will has been taken away by society due to the dichotomy we created of good and evil.

Think as long as you have good and evil it wasnt taken away, but influenced.