[ENTP] Questions for ENTP males

[rav3n]

I believe you. I think you'll find, however, that many ENTP males will be glad to answer your questions honestly if you have any questions to ask.

I don't understand ENTP males. There's one in my family that I love to death but he's atypical since he doesn't seem to have a cruel bone in his body. It's also possible that he's an INTP since he's scored differently per test.

Anyways, from what I've seen of ENTP males, you guys have a penchant for cruelty and manipulation that exceeds other types. If you see a weakness, many will poke at it and work it, to your benefit.

Why do you do this and what do you gain from it?

 

[guesswho]

No ENTPs are not cruel. People behave differently online, you must see them in real life to understand.

Maybe the ENTP in your family is not atypical ... maybe the online behavior of the ENTPs on the internet is atypical.

ENTPs are not like House

 

[guesswho]

Does this look cruel?

 

[Domino]

I would ask the same question, and I know many IRL. We're speaking not just of mysteries, perhaps. We will no doubt delve into unhealthy/malignant behaviors.

How could my ex bf just turn and walk away from me without ever saying good-bye even though I knew how we felt about each other? He said good-bye to everyone except me.

I also recall one telling me unsympathetically as I was literally dying that life wasn't forever and that everyone has to die sometime.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

We aren't House, but I think this might help answer a question or two.

"You broke the rules; your girlfriend went blind. When you gamble, you have to consider losing as one of the possibilities."

The cruelty is a type of fairness. It shows the equality that Ti has towards everything. Sympathy is not fair, sympathy belittles consequences that are truly present. Hitting you with full force of how this (possibilities in general) could play out is our way of being nice. When someone makes an illogical decision the cruelty could be a way of not only pointing it out, but snapping the person out of the delusion that they were in, which may have been why they picked the wrong choice in the beginning, wrong as it did not end well for the entire group, let alone themselves. It's us trying to give our version of a reality check. As for the manipulation. We are led by Ne which sees a great deal of possibilities and if we find it logical to get to a certain end, but the only way through is manipulation, then the greater good, or peace between people will be taken. It may not be self-evident and this all depends if they find out the answer is right, or the situation is truly better off because of it. I'm trying not to be too general as I feel I may be projecting just a tad, but I'd say this may be a good starting point.

 

[funkadelik]

No ENTPs are not cruel. People behave differently online, you must see them in real life to understand.

Maybe the ENTP in your family is not atypical ... maybe the online behavior of the ENTPs on the internet is atypical.

ENTPs are not like House

I know I'm a lot more candid online than I am in real life. I say a lot more of the things that I think. Right now I'm working a customer service job and if I said everything that I thought I'd probably get fired. So it's nice to be a little more unbridled when I come on here. Let out some steam.

But really, my intention is never to be cruel or to manipulate. I just like to be as unbiased as possible (ie. treat things equally, which means treating them impersonally), for things to make sense (ie. be logical) and for people to like me. Sometimes I don't know how to get the latter without manipulation. It comes so easily. But moving away from that is a learning process as I grow older.

And I know I'm not a male, but I don't see how that makes my input less relevant.

 

[Amargith]

.

 

[EcK]

I don't know satine.

I haven't found a way to do it myself.
I mean, If I don't have some sort of 'interest' in the situation I just, won't change who I am to make people happy. It's just too far from who I am. I can geniunely smile and be cheered up by being 'nice to people' but i'll still say what I think if I can be bothered. Usually I won't if I don't even care enough to do so, but I can see how people who sort of are put in a family situation together will be constantly exposed to each other and give each others attention, even when this attention is not wanted and harmful.

In family and with friends I sort of go with kantian social ethics, or 'the golden rule' (it's been invented and reeinvented through history. So I expect to be treated in the way I treat people and find it to be fair. The issue in your case is that most entps welcome arguments and things of that kind and you can get hurt in the process, and they see it as you being over sensitive and hence 'not fair'.
I think it takes an entp with a very "relative mind" or high fe not to do this, and even then it's far from a given.

I guess the trick with entps is to get into their 'special circle' first if it can be managed. When you're there they'll go out of their way and around your sensitivities. But they'll still be sincere about it (i think). So it doesn't imply lying, it just implies that they care about you , they're more 'fe' about it and enjoy constructing with you more than deconstructing and rearanging the information you give them. If someone's in my 'special circle' I'll consider what they say more, because after all there was a reason for them to get into the special circle hence it justifies the extra attention to their ideas. I guess it's partly a human trait that is due to how we justify our actions through rationalization.

Now family situations are difficult, because people are grouped together but cannot control who their siblings\parents\kids are, and will just share enough commonalities through common culture and genetics to exacerbate conflicts when they happen.
It's very hard to change the way people view you. One thing that might work to an extent it to just change the way you communicate with them in a proactive way. But I don't know your family so I don't know what angle of attack you could choose.

 

[Uytuun]

If you see a weakness, many will poke at it

True, but I don't think they do it to their benefit necessarily. It's just their way of understanding/dealing with it, they need reactions. It does seem unbelievably cruel at times.

 

[burymecloser]

Anyways, from what I've seen of ENTP males, you guys have a penchant for cruelty and manipulation that exceeds other types. If you see a weakness, many will poke at it and work it, to your benefit.

We aren't House, but I think this might help answer a question or two.

"You broke the rules; your girlfriend went blind. When you gamble, you have to consider losing as one of the possibilities."

The cruelty is a type of fairness. It shows the equality that Ti has towards everything. Sympathy is not fair, sympathy belittles consequences that are truly present. Hitting you with full force of how this (possibilities in general) could play out is our way of being nice. When someone makes an illogical decision the cruelty could be a way of not only pointing it out, but snapping the person out of the delusion that they were in, which may have been why they picked the wrong choice in the beginning, wrong as it did not end well for the entire group, let alone themselves. It's us trying to give our version of a reality check. As for the manipulation. We are led by Ne which sees a great deal of possibilities and if we find it logical to get to a certain end, but the only way through is manipulation, then the greater good, or peace between people will be taken. It may not be self-evident and this all depends if they find out the answer is right, or the situation is truly better off because of it. I'm trying not to be too general as I feel I may be projecting just a tad, but I'd say this may be a good starting point.

I'm INTP, not ENTP, and I don't identify at all with the poking bit, but I think ReflecttcelfeR is on to something important about Ti. One of the questions on the standard Keirsey MBTI test is about whether you're more inclined toward justice or mercy. Ti is all about justice. Fairness. Sugar-coating is really contrary to Ti; the most you can realistically hope for is softening the blow. Sometimes that seems blunt or even cruel, but it's usually intended to be realistic and maybe even helpful.

Also worth mentioning that Ne is really, really curious.

 

[Domino]

I will fight to my last breath to keep life in my body and those of my loved ones, not hit them over the head with "everyone dies" simply because you are too - callous? - to comfort a friend.

Sympathy is an honest mercy.

Sugar-coating is at best a deferral and at worst a lie. There's a difference.

My father has a cat that is slowly dying from a heart condition. This cat is his favorite, and was the only thing that kept him sane when he was home alone and going through very dark days. We all know that Tommy is going to expire, that he needs a lot of help, that he's never going to be "all better". We *understand* this. There's no delusion there. But never do I go around saying, "Hey, how's that dying cat?" When I looked after Tommy for my father when he was away, I called every day to give updates, positive stories of holding him and talking to him and singing songs to him. It was a comfort to my dad. Domino wouldn't let anything happen to Tommy while Dad was away. And if Tommy did die, he would be with me, and not alone.

It matters to my Dad. It matters to me more than announcing the final end. I will put a positive angle on Tommy without idiocy for the sake of my father's frayed feelings. Some things are that important, and that in itself is honest.

And god help me if I EVER compare House to any living human being I know. That's such an extreme and unpleasant example I would never evoke it.

 

[Kasper]

Examples like Domino's help because of this:

I guess it's in the eye of the beholder though..what I considered beyond cruel, they considered oversensitivity on my part.

When I was younger I was often guilty of saying or doing something that others found hurtful, even though that was never my intention. Upon realising the effect it had on others I changed that but it is still there, in me, I just bite my tongue if what I have to say may be hurtful and employ Fe to word it another way. My aim was never to scar so using Fe is a good thing for others.

The way you word the OP suggests you see scarring as the aim. That's disturbing. I know there are those out there who toy with people just to see if they can, but generally that's something that goes hand in hand with narcissism imo, which is a separate topic to ENTPness.

The manipulation part I don't get, people always seem to see that as a negative thing so I'm not sure if my view of manipulation is the same as theirs. I see two kinds of manipulation, one where people use emotions; guilt, shame, etc, I have no respect for that although it can push at my Fe. The other involves using your strengths to get a desirable outcome. If no one is disadvantaged I see no harm in that approach, it's simply common sense to use what you can to get your desired outcome. Deception is a different thing and I'm not cool with that. I know manipulation and ENTP are often put together but I. Just. Don't. Get it.

Isn't it manipulation when someone uses emotions rather than directness to resolve an issue?

So tell me, ENTPs...is there any way to have that intimate bond with you without harming us both in the process?

I'm sure there is. Dunno how myself tho. 

I will fight to my last breath to keep life in my body and those of my loved ones, not hit them over the head with "everyone dies" simply because you are too - callous? - to comfort a friend.

Sympathy is an honest mercy.

Sugar-coating is at best a deferral and at worst a lie. There's a difference.

Personally I would never say "everyone dies" to you because I know it would upset you, the saying I told you in PM once is how I would put it "view the cup as already broken" it's not meant as a comforting thing, more a focus on what you can control and appreciate that which you can't thing. I'm not good at sympathy, to me it can seem fake, if I care then I would not want to patronise that way. You've spoken about this ENTP before so I think that exchange cut you deep and I'm sorry for that but I don't expect he meant to cut you, please don't jump on me for saying that, I know it cut, just hear what I'm saying and make your own decision. All I know is if I had've said those words to you and seen you react with hurt I would have felt so bad because I clearly did not think about the impact before I said them

 

[Domino]

I would never ever dream of jumping on you.

Even if you tried, you could never sink to his level. It wouldn't be in you to do it. He's almost a House. I would be rid of him if he didn't have the almost sixth-sense way of always finding me.

Say I walking around with the idea in my head that Tommy would be magically better and I was spending huge amounts of money on it and I was causing a huge rift between us because of my delusions. Telling me plainly that I was mistaken and that the cat is going to die is the only logical thing to do. I value my NT friends for being able to detail the need and put it in pared down language because I can get hoisted by my own emotional involvement sometimes. Nor do my NT friends walk around being cruel and painfully blunt to people simply because they feel like it. That's not a TYPE, that's a jackass.

If the cup is already broken, how do I approach it? I don't fix it. I don't leave it that way. Or do I do that? Either? Neither? None of the above?

 

[Kasper]

That's not a TYPE, that's a jackass.

OMG Get. Away. From. It. There are people, and then there's poison.

If the cup is already broken, how do I approach it? I don't fix it. I don't leave it that way. Or do I do that? Either? Neither? None of the above?

Not the intention of the quote, it's "view the cup as already broken", you have something you love, at some point it will break, rather then dismaying when that happens view it as broken now and appreciate it for as long as it isn't.

Poison however should be irradiated from your life. Stat!

 

[Domino]

OMG Get. Away. From. It. There are people, and then there's poison.

Could not agree more. One up shot to having a pain disorder is that being in pain against my will puts me in an indignant rage faster than anything and it serves to bounce jerks right out of my arena. What a handy thing. A cut and bleeding dog doesn't hesitate to use its teeth.

Not the intention of the quote, it's "view the cup as already broken", you have something you love, at some point it will break, rather then dismaying when that happens view it as broken now and appreciate it for as long as it isn't.

This will take every ounce of strength in me to drag myself through that turn without flying off the road. I see it's merits clearly and wonder if they would be a great deal more humane to my unfortunate possessive default - my jealousy of life, my jealousy *for* life. To reframe the breakdown will be a pivotal battle.

But one worth making, even if I now lack the strength to make it stick.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I would also add that you shouldn't ask for honesty when we're pissed, because you'll get much more than you thought you would( whether it's actually true or not, we'll say what we perceive). Sounds like a threat, more meant as a precautionary tale. /projection

 

[rav3n]

Thanks for your thoughts, opinions and comments everyone. They've helped to clarify something in my mind and a slightly askew interaction with an ENTP male today, made me realise how simple the problem is. I LOVE TypeC for its Aha! moments.

It's our functions, particularly Ne-dom. Ne is so random with underlying resonances of Fe-tert that make it so difficult for me to grasp. Add in the strength of inferior Si which states that things `must be`and that doesn`t help the mix.

If I flip the order around to INTPs, their Ti-dom explicitness pulls in their random Ne so they`re easier to understand and many, particularly the males, shunt their inferior Fe to dark, dank places that no one can reach, not even themselves.

I should add that when there isn`t understanding, Ni goes wild trying to figure it out and comes up with some plausible and implausible explanations.

 

[nonsequitur]

I will fight to my last breath to keep life in my body and those of my loved ones, not hit them over the head with "everyone dies" simply because you are too - callous? - to comfort a friend.

It's not a type thing. My ENFJ mother told me exactly the same thing (word for word) the day after I lost a close friend to leukemia and was on the phone to her long-distance, trying to keep from breaking down. Then she quickly hung up, obviously because we didn't have a relationship where I could talk about my feelings.

Sometimes I think the MBTI builds such inaccurately superficial images of people that it means absolutely nothing. My mother would probably comfort a stranger, but there's no way that she'd comfort me. Our relationship is just "not like that".

 

[entropie]

You're all wrong, entp's are born evil !

In the morning we eat a pile of crushed glass and we shover with steel woll !

[youtube="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pYtxD92SpY"].[/youtube]

 

[Domino]

Entropie ftw.

That's you as a baby, isn't it. Confess. *laughs*