[Si] Inferior Si.

[Poki]

The Ne attitude is not that digging for a specific pattern is important; no, no. The Ne attitude is that digging for anything is intrisically important because no matter what I find, I found something and I'll explore outside of the widely accepted presumptions to do it. How do I know that? I know that because I have extremely high Ne; it's my strongest function by far. I don't necessarily need patterns to form a new whole. I can form a new whole without existing patterns just as well by looking at the possibilities.

Are you assuming that Ne doesn't dig to find differences?

Yes, I am assuming another function digs to find differences. You as an INTP have a strong Ti and Si which is combined with a strong Ne used to dig deeper. Thats much different then FiNeTe or TiNeFe.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

That's the point if you've found a fundamental enough connection it should never end, or it should continue for a while until it can no longer be divided, or connected anymore.

 

[A window to the soul]

Yes, I am assuming another function digs to find differences. You as an INTP have a strong Ti and Si which is combined with a strong Ne used to dig deeper. Thats much different then FiNeTe or TiNeFe.

INTP description fits me best. I don't agree that cognitive function preferences should be the only basis for determining ones type.

 

[Poki]

The Ne attitude is not that digging for a specific pattern is important; no, no. The Ne attitude is that digging for anything is intrisically important because no matter what I find, I found something and I'll explore outside of the widely accepted presumptions to do it. How do I know that? I know that because I have extremely high Ne; it's my strongest function by far. I don't necessarily need patterns to form a new whole. I can form a new whole without existing patterns just as well by looking at the possibilities.

Are you assuming that Ne doesn't dig to find differences? I think this depends on the supporting function.

Yes, I am assuming that Ne doesnt do this and is heavily dependent on a supporting function which it appears that ENxP defaults to recognizing patterns instead of internalizing and digging deeper as an I type would. The pattern is keyed off a thought or feeling. So when I tell an ENTP my thoughts we connect using Ti and he jumps into Ne pattern matching. No Fe is involved IMO. I think that ENTPs for example are better at learning patterns and application, then actually creating patterns. They dont have as much of a vast internal pattern structure as an INTP who would create alot of their own patterns.

Just my opinion


edit: and MBTI is based off of symptoms...a predefined set of criteria which is tied to a personality. And we use this same system on more serious things...wonder why doctors "practice". Yes its the best we have as we can only reach what we understand and it has come alot farther then just classifying people as witches and killing them.

 

[Thalassa]

Yes, we have "symptoms". And how many times are problems misdiagnosed based on symptoms. Yes Ne has its plusses and minuses, I was trying to explain how to get past its limitations and delve into Si...but all Ne seems to want to do is argue about it and take offense.

Huh? No one is taking offense, and if someone did, it would be their Fi or Fe, not Ne lol.

I see patterns of human behavior in various cultures - which is one of the reasons I kept poking another user who claims the INFP type the other night, perhaps they use a lot more Fi where as I use more Ne, I dunno - but this person wouldn't even step outside of their own cultural experience to question why other humans in different civilizations would have different values. I believe he was in a horrible Fi/Si loop...at any rate, what perfectgirl said is correct, Ne does dig to find differences and possibilities.

It's just a slightly different process for NTPs who are more focused on how things work, and/or rational philosophy, and NFPs who often use their Ne for people purposes or artistic venues. Not that NFPs can't ever be engineers (Elaur is) or NTPs can't be artists....but generalizing, NFPs and NTPs use Ne a bit differently.

Si is very important in determining patterns, funnily enough, that's why I'm kind of amused by what you're saying. It's only through Si that a person could even remember and store repetitive patterns with any real degree of accuracy. Ne without Si just floats around exploring possibilities and dreaming things up. That's why they are paired as functions in both NPs and SJs, ideally working somewhat in tandem by around age 25-30 or maybe a bit later for some.

 

[A window to the soul]

Yes, I am assuming that Ne doesnt do this and is heavily dependent on a supporting function which it appears that ENxP defaults to recognizing patterns instead of internalizing and digging deeper as an I type would. The pattern is keyed off a thought or feeling. So when I tell an ENTP my thoughts we connect using Ti and he jumps into Ne pattern matching. No Fe is involved IMO. I think that ENTPs for example are better at learning patterns and application, then actually creating patterns. They dont have as much of a vast internal pattern structure as an INTP who would create alot of their own patterns.

Just my opinion

Ne has such a broad lens in that it's looking for anything (not something specific). Without Ti to support it, Ne would probably look so random and useless to most people; in the way of logical structure. Ti is key in facilitating the development of structure. So after doing a little brainstorming, I agree with you that an ENTP would be better at learning (even troubleshooting) systems, than actually creating them, since the INTP has stronger Ti (in theory).

 

[Poki]

Huh? No one is taking offense, and if someone did, it would be their Fi or Fe, not Ne lol.

I see patterns of human behavior in various cultures - which is one of the reasons I kept poking another user who claims the INFP type the other night, perhaps they use a lot more Fi where as I use more Ne, I dunno - but this person wouldn't even step outside of their own cultural experience to question why other humans in different civilizations would have different values. I believe he was in a horrible Fi/Si loop...at any rate, what perfectgirl said is correct, Ne does dig to find differences and possibilities.

It's just a slightly different process for NTPs who are more focused on how things work, and/or rational philosophy, and NFPs who often use their Ne for people purposes or artistic venues. Not that NFPs can't ever be engineers (Elaur is) or NTPs can't be artists....but generalizing, NFPs and NTPs use Ne a bit differently.

Si is very important in determining patterns, funnily enough, that's why I'm kind of amused by what you're saying. It's only through Si that a person could even remember and store repetitive patterns with any real degree of accuracy. Ne without Si just floats around exploring possibilities and dreaming things up. That's why they are paired as functions in both NPs and SJs, ideally working somewhat in tandem by around age 25-30 or maybe a bit later for some.

I picked up people taking offense because it came across that I was demeaning Ne to the point of useless, when I hold no such opinion and I attempted to make sure it didnt come across that way.

Trying to figure out how to respond...Ti road block in piecing things together based on this response as you just introduced age into the MBTI function puzzle with creates a fuzziness with what "inferior" actually means and basically makes "inferior Si" age related, along with personality related.

 

[A window to the soul]

Ne without Si just floats around exploring possibilities and dreaming things up. That's why they are paired as functions in both NPs and SJs, ideally working somewhat in tandem by around age 25-30 or maybe a bit later for some.

This is an interesting thought. What is it about Si that makes you say this? It's more logical to me that Ti would anchor Ne.

 

[Thalassa]

This is an interesting thought. What is it about Si that makes you say this? It's more logical to me that Ti would anchor Ne.

Ti and Fi will reason out Ne and weigh Ne's credibility according to either Fi ethics or Ti reasoning (or even Fe ethics in the NTPs case or Te reasoning in the NFPs case). The judging functions of course are quite important in determining whether what Ne has collected has any relevancy.

However, Si collects sensory data and stores it in detail. Ne can look back to Si in order to make connections. Both Ne and Si make connections between things, but Si compares to the previous storehouse of experiences and Ne compares to external patterns in the outer world.

Si is a very grounding function, and I think without it Ne doms come across as either reckless or even airheaded. Fortunately this is usually young ENxPs.

 

[A window to the soul]

Si is a very grounding function, and I think without it Ne doms come across as either reckless or even airheaded.

This explains a lot. I'm Si deficient.

 

[Thalassa]

This explains a lot. I'm Si deficient.

S'okay. I remember dumb ISTP boys in high school who ended up dropping out calling me "stupid" and "airheaded" but I made better grades than they did, was in advanced classes, and had a 3.9 GPA in college.

My ESFJ ex also saw my Ne dominance as this strangely retarded thing about me though he would tell me how much he admired my intelligence, I think he considered me an idiot savant. I can tell you honestly I think the same of him.

I was also talking to my therapist a few weeks ago about how reckless I was as a younger woman, and she said, "well that's partly just because of youth, not because something is wrong with you."

So take heart.

 

[A window to the soul]

After doing some research, I want to break this down in simple terms for the novice:

Ne - No anchors, adapts to change; seeks to explore the unknown
Si - Firmly anchors, resists change; seeks to avoid the unknown

So for Si folks, perceptions are anchored firmly in what they already know.

Inferior Si

• Feelings of nostalgia
• May see negative eternal images in people/situations that will not change (seeing isolated incidents as the whole).

 

[IZthe411]

I've been trying to pay attention to how certain stimuli make me feel (i.e. what they remind me of, what emotions/memories they evoke) and I end up getting stuck in the analysis of how I feel, which then takes me out of the actual moment propelling me further from the present. Perhaps I am trying to hard, it wouldn't be the first time (zing?).

If you take the time to figure out your feelings on past stimuli, You'll prepare yourself to better handle and deal with that stimuli ( or avoid it ) so that the past is not repeated.
Seems that without proper Si, your chances of repeating past mistakes is higher.

 

[IZthe411]

But functions aren't used in a vaccuum. It's basically like he was saying that the patterns Ne sees are bullshit.

That's not right.

It is. Within all the 'possibilities' some have to fall out as worthless and even stupid. Without Si, your possibilities can indeed produce a similar result.

 

[Poki]

If you take the time to figure out your feelings on past stimuli, You'll prepare yourself to better handle and deal with that stimuli ( or avoid it ) so that the past is not repeated.
Seems that without proper Si, your chances of repeating past mistakes is higher.

I figure out my feelings based on not only past stimuli, but past situations. Growing up I never had enough real "stimuli" to have to try to control them. I didnt get stuck in that back and forth extreme with stimuli. Something I am working right now so I can deal with them. The way my personality is, I have a round about method of dealing with that strong stimuli instead of avoiding it. Now my son does get stuck in that stimuli and I get him wound up way to much playing with him to the point where I cant get him to slow down. He lacks control of that playfulness in that area.

ISTJs are STIMULATION NAZIS!!!!!!! j/k....kinda...its half true, but not completely

It is. Within all the 'possibilities' some have to fall out as worthless and even stupid. Without Si, your possibilities can indeed produce a similar result.

To Ni they are not bullshit, they are expansive. Its like stimulation, just as Se is stimulation to Si. It doesnt seem to work the other way around though, atleast not in the manner I used stimulation. Need more refining on this this.

 

[louiesgonnadie]

Here are some possible examples I have that could be low Si:

When I am at the store, often I will get paranoid if the amount of money I have is close to something I will be spending it on (let's say I am buying something that is $3.83 and I have $4) I have to factor in the tax, and get paranoid that I may not have enough money to reach the final total. So I end up not buying the item, and buy something else that is, say, close to a dollar lower.

Once, in the shower, I was drinking soda and doing a lot of thinking, which stimulates me. My heart started beating fast, and got slightly heavy, and I felt like I was going to have a panic attack.

Also, I do spawn abstract impressions of my environment due to Ne + Si at work. Ever since I was a kid, (mainly in the dark) I would interpret mysterious noises and details, or things that looked off to me, as creepy or weird, and become somewhat obsessive and really intimidated. For example: I was always afraid to see my reflection in the dark, for it looked sketchy. Then again, part of this is to blame since I had a dream when I was 4 about looking at a blank TV screen in the dark, and all of a sudden, a ghost appeared on the screen and threatened me.

Could all of this point to inferior or poorly developed Si? I'm trying to figure out if I'm INFP or ENFP so this might help me.

 

[Aesthete]

Here are some possible examples I have that could be low Si:

I've had similar situations in the past, but I don't think ENFP and INFP can be differentiated best by looking at Si and Te: you need to go to the dominant functions, and that's where you'll see the change. I think INFPs tend to be a bit more rigid with Fi shifting more slowly and it can be held together by Si quite a bit; ENFPs will be more adaptable. However, I'm not too familiar with either type in the day to day, so my answer might not be the best.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

Thanks. Do you think that the answer to an ENFP/ENTP that is momentarily suffering from anxiety (ie. *cof*cof* me) is to control/eliminate Si? Or maybe actually the opposite?

After doing some research, I want to break this down in simple terms for the novice:

Ne - No anchors, adapts to change; seeks to explore the unknown
Si - Firmly anchors, resists change; seeks to avoid the unknown

So for Si folks, perceptions are anchored firmly in what they already know.

Inferior Si

• Feelings of nostalgia
• May see negative eternal images in people/situations that will not change (seeing isolated incidents as the whole).

 

[louiesgonnadie]

I've had similar situations in the past, but I don't think ENFP and INFP can be differentiated best by looking at Si and Te: you need to go to the dominant functions, and that's where you'll see the change. I think INFPs tend to be a bit more rigid with Fi shifting more slowly and it can be held together by Si quite a bit; ENFPs will be more adaptable. However, I'm not too familiar with either type in the day to day, so my answer might not be the best.

Go into detail how you think Fi-doms are "rigid" with their dominant function. Give some concrete examples of how this might manifest in you as well.

Personally for me, I just hopped on the Fi train very recently, after thinking for about two months that I was an INTP or ISTP (Ti-dom). I don't really have any strong values so I am always accepting of logic and strive to be a more rational person, but I definitely feel like I have Fi at least in my auxiliary. Problem differentiating the I/E is that I can relate to some inferior Te as well, in terms of bursts of self deprecation and judging others in a negative light when I am pissed off.

 

[Aesthete]

Go into detail how you think Fi-doms are "rigid" with their dominant function. Give some concrete examples of how this might manifest in you as well.

I don't know any ENFPs closely, so I can give is perception than knowledge of what truly is. The INFPs I know tend to hold on impressions created by others - whether good or negative - and hold on to them, such that the nature of future interaction with a person will be somewhat settled by these impressions. If a person does something that I disapprove of, more often than not, I'll always relate that back to the person, even if they prove to be a virtuous character - the impression might be in the deepest corner of my mind, but it will still be there. The ENFPs I've met, on the other hand, are less interested in stocking such information (inferior Si?) and - well, it's hard to put my finger on what exactly they do, but - life goes on.

As well, I've noticed that ENFPs tend to be a bit more structured in that they know what they have to accomplish and have an idea of what to do to get there, while INFPs (or maybe just me) wait for the muses to inspire them.