[NT] ENFP confused by INTx

[mmhmm]

also available as a movie:

 

[Thalassa]

Pretty much that was the clincher for me.

At best, he did it innocently and will continue to do hurtful things such as this out of ignorance in any continuing relationship; at worst, he did it on purpose, making it doubly sure you should move on and find someone who respects you as a human being.

It sounds to me that you're confusing yourself because you just really liked him and didn't want to cut things off necessarily. We all can feel that way sometimes, but in the end, it sounds like you are only going to be hurt and taken advantage of in this particular relationship.

I just don't have patience, personally, with cheaters, male whores, and people who preach PUA. Guys who sleep with their ex on my birthday and text young girls on our weekend away are pretty much relegated to "idiot child" in my mind. It's a total turn-off to me, I mean to say people like that disgust me.

Everyone can put up with a certain kind of bullshit, I guess, but I simply will not tolerate that kind of shit. I think encouraging a man like that is just asking for it. You're nothing more than a prop to his ego.

I dunno, it's just my personal thing - I've put up with other things I shouldn't have put up with, but it was from someone who was totally faithful to and committed to me.

 

[Fidelia]

This sounds bad on every level. He's got the best of all worlds and is not required to make any kind of commitment to any of them. Your attention is flattering, so he's keeping you on the string to keep his options open. People will only value you as much as you value yourself. They learn to treat you from the respect that you show for yourself and the "price" you set yourself at. (I don't mean that in a sexual sense!).

You are also allowing him to quickly spend your margin of emotional resources, which leaves you without enough to even care for your own needs and will make you more dependent on him. He is afraid of being alone with himself and until he actually gets to the point where he enjoys his own company, he will always be restless and looking to something external to fill that void. No one can do that, and so when he discovers that one person is not the answer, he moves to another, hoping that something or someone will do the trick.

You deserve to be with someone who is able to be physically, mentally and emotionally present in the relationship. That means that his own needs need to be addressed by himself first so that he's got something in addition left to give to you. Someone who is that insecure is going to act in selfish and destructive ways, despite themselves. It's tempting when you understand why the person has those insecurities to keep hanging on because you see their potential and you don't blame them for being in the state they are in. However, it doesn't negate the absolute destructiveness and devastating effect of those behaviours, whether wielded intentionally or not.

This is not as easy as just deciding not to spend time with him. Emotions will always trump reason and logic. Emotions grow through proximity. Proximity becomes like some kind of drug that you seek out, even after you can see that the other person isn't good for you or isn't available enough to be in a relationship. You will need to have enough other people and activities in your life to reduce the amount of importance he has taken on. You also need to cut off contact for a long while until the emotions involved die down as well and become more manageable. Otherwise you will end up pursuing behaviours that you are angry at yourself for, but just can't prevent yourself from doing, and you will accept increasingly disrespectful and inconsiderate behaviour gratefully even if you understand intellectually what is wrong with it. This ends up tying you into an endless cycle of staying to prove to yourself and others that he really does care, and leaves you in the position of not possessing equal power in the relationship and therefore being a beggar instead of a chooser.

 

[Totenkindly]

I just don't have patience, personally, with cheaters, male whores, and people who preach PUA. Guys who sleep with their ex on my birthday and text young girls on our weekend away are pretty much relegated to "idiot child" in my mind. It's a total turn-off to me, I mean to say people like that disgust me.

Everyone can put up with a certain kind of bullshit, I guess, but I simply will not tolerate that kind of shit. I think encouraging a man like that is just asking for it. You're nothing more than a prop to his ego.

Yup. In all of my grayness, I have reached the point of drawing some lines simply because life experience has shown me how some things play out time after time after time. This is one of those lines. A guy who behaves that way is not ready or able to maintain a committed relationship... at least, sadly, with me.

 

[Kalach]

*next time it WILL be different, I just know it*

 

[AgentF]

He sounds like a total fucking loser.

Seriously, no offense, but get some self-respect. He texted some really young girl while he was away on his weekend with you?

Dude, I would have left. I would have been like, "um, bye."

as a point of clarification, it wasn't intended as a romantic weekend with any forward-looking purpose. it was a "kiss our dating life goodbye as we enter into the next stage of our non-dating relationship, whatever that may be."

the question is, why would i have put myself through that to begin with. why would he? a romantic cabin in the woods. then wine tasting at several wineries after we checked out. i guess we're both unrealistic. unable to have the whole picture with anyone else so we're cobbling together a Frankenrelationship with various people.

i'll be honest. and likely exasperate you all. i got a text from a man just as we arrived at the cabin. i briefly replied, agreeing to see him again. the difference is minor, but important: i wasn't initiating contact with him or engaging in some dialogue over the weekend. just replying, realizing that cabin boy isn't going to be the one i'd be dating after the weekend.

perhaps me and the INTx are more alike than i'd like to admit. who knows. i think he plays the game better than i do, in any case. i just don't have the patience for it.

so for now, good people, i am pulling away. entirely, if i can swing it. he thinks we're just taking a month away from each other, but i'm thinkin no. i need more time and i want something entirely different. so i'm withdrawing from his life. i like the idea and it absolutely has to do with self respect. also, it's entirely unfair to the men who do ask me out and seem to be ready, to be chumming the waters with my bleeding heart over this guy.

 

[AgentF]

*next time it WILL be different, I just know it*

you suck so hard. you deserve to be beaten over the head with Mother Jones or whatever it is you read.

and, thanks.

 

[InvisibleJim]

i'll be honest. and likely exasperate you all. i got a text from a man just as we arrived at the cabin. i briefly replied, agreeing to see him again. the difference is minor, but important: i wasn't initiating contact with him or engaging in some dialogue over the weekend. just replying, realizing that cabin boy isn't going to be the one i'd be dating after the weekend.

I found this confession exasperating!

I did warn you not to have expectations that you hadn't agreed on beforehand; from what I remember you talking to me about over the phone and Skype you actually got the weekend you wanted - a friendly weekend; between friends.

But you are still hitting the conundrum that if you don't want to be with the guy and you haven't been in a relationship then is it right to hold out all of these 'in a relationship I would say, in a relationship I would feel' shenanigans which don't match the true context? Because you just aren't going to find an NTJ being bound to and delivering upon or even occasionally understanding your expectations if you don't voice exactly what you want.

/end exasperation

Anyway....

 

[Amargith]

I'm going to second Jim in that you need to be clear to him what the terms are. Once those are clear, I'd say letting things cool and focusing elsewhere sounds smart

 

[Rex]

Just fuck it!
Loads of guys for Agent to meet and date..

 

[chachamaru]

I didn't read all the posts in this thread (a few pages in the front and back) and I want to hug you!

I also think you should read Tucker Max's books/escapades. Be cautious to not become one of those women. And men are supposed to be confused about you, not the other way around.

 

[INTP]

im not sure if i should laugh at you or cry for you for being so easy. seriously..

get some distance, tell him that he can come to you IF and only if he will forget other girls, gets past his problems with his ex and ready to start a real relationship with you. start to look for other guys, but dont tell it to him, its not any of his business since he doesent want a real relationship with you anyways at the moment. and DO NOT have any hopes with him, or at least try not to.
it looks that he either is no good, or just has some issues he needs to get over. if he is no good, you dont need to see him now or ever. if he just has issues, you dont need to see him now or maybe in many years.
also tell him that he will only have one more chance.

 

[Thalassa]

as a point of clarification, it wasn't intended as a romantic weekend with any forward-looking purpose. it was a "kiss our dating life goodbye as we enter into the next stage of our non-dating relationship, whatever that may be."

the question is, why would i have put myself through that to begin with. why would he? a romantic cabin in the woods. then wine tasting at several wineries after we checked out. i guess we're both unrealistic. unable to have the whole picture with anyone else so we're cobbling together a Frankenrelationship with various people.

i'll be honest. and likely exasperate you all. i got a text from a man just as we arrived at the cabin. i briefly replied, agreeing to see him again. the difference is minor, but important: i wasn't initiating contact with him or engaging in some dialogue over the weekend. just replying, realizing that cabin boy isn't going to be the one i'd be dating after the weekend.

perhaps me and the INTx are more alike than i'd like to admit. who knows. i think he plays the game better than i do, in any case. i just don't have the patience for it.

so for now, good people, i am pulling away. entirely, if i can swing it. he thinks we're just taking a month away from each other, but i'm thinkin no. i need more time and i want something entirely different. so i'm withdrawing from his life. i like the idea and it absolutely has to do with self respect. also, it's entirely unfair to the men who do ask me out and seem to be ready, to be chumming the waters with my bleeding heart over this guy.

But you guys aren't alike. You're just trying to "play the game" since you have feelings for a guy who not only won't commit, but flaunts other women openly and disrespectfully in your face. It would be totally different if you had no feelings for him - that's something else entirely, an arrangement, a fuck buddy whatever...but since you do care, you're just leaving yourself to be hurt.

It's the fact that you're allowing the open disrespect that astounds me. It's like dude, if you're gonna date other women, at least be with me when you're with me, and don't try to make me feel completely insignificant.

I'm not saying you couldn't forgive him if later on he *really* changed and grew out of it...thing is, he's not lying to you. He's telling you straight up, and you're still trying to actively change him. That's not gonna happen for various reasons, but one important reason is that he doesn't even have to respect you.

 

[Kalach]

It is time now to point out that this guy is just a guy. There isn't anything special about him, and he isn't doing all this for any unusual reason. He's just being basically the same as everyone else.

Everyone who gives you some impressive explanation for this guy is helping you to not decide. Even the negative "reviews" are compelling because even they give you the impression of a handle, some tool by which to understand this guy. Each new understanding offers a set of new possibilities, and that means new directions you have to try and see play out. So it's time to stop explaining. Time to start deciding.

He's just a guy. He gets free sex with invisible strings attached. With every decision you don't make, a string gets tied at random.

 

[Tallulah]

im not sure if i should laugh at you or cry for you for being so easy. seriously..

get some distance, tell him that he can come to you IF and only if he will forget other girls, gets past his problems with his ex and ready to start a real relationship with you. start to look for other guys, but dont tell it to him, its not any of his business since he doesent want a real relationship with you anyways at the moment. and DO NOT have any hopes with him, or at least try not to.
it looks that he either is no good, or just has some issues he needs to get over. if he is no good, you dont need to see him now or ever. if he just has issues, you dont need to see him now or maybe in many years.
also tell him that he will only have one more chance.

Yep.

 

[InvisibleJim]

He's just a guy. He gets free sex with invisible strings attached. With every decision you don't make, a string gets tied at random.

+1 and you know us introverts, indecisive to the last unless we have clear direction.

 

[AgentF]

yes to the last 3 posts.

and: my decision is to disappear. wish me luck...and, thanks to all of you. esp. those who gave me the occasional caning.

 

[Amargith]

Smart cookie.

 

[rav3n]

The more I read about him, the more I agree that he's not playing you. He doesn't need to, in order to get everything he wants. You're playing yourself. And even with the choice to disappear, it's another play. Isn't it time to be authentic with yourself and everyone else?

 

[AgentF]

The more I read about him, the more I agree that he's not playing you. He doesn't need to, in order to get everything he wants. You're playing yourself. And even with the choice to disappear, it's another play. Isn't it time to be authentic with yourself and everyone else?

and you are throwing down a gauntlet? i'd emoticon but i'm on an emoticon diet.

so please. continue. i'm listening...