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[ENTJ] Question for ENTJs and other NTs

haag261390

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Is it natural for you to use abstract thoughts and communication and get it in the sudden? What if an ENTJ and an ENTP that I know rarely have any abstract thoughts then does that mean they're not intuitives? But I know this one ENTJ thinks past that 'surface' and is a deep thinker. I need some answers to this, thank you.
 

Intermundia

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The thing about ENTJ's is that a lot of the time you wont find them spouting abstract idea's all the time. The dominance of Te is like lead keeping the balloon of the abstract within the Earths atmosphere. Compared to the ENTP who is like a factory of abstract idea's. For the ENTP, anything and everything can be valid, whereas the ENTJ things are only possible if they further the "right". I suppose the reason is because the ENTP has a dominant intuitive function while the ENTJ's intuitive function is secondary and is used when they need a different perspective on things or when they want to see what lies beyond appearances.
 

rav3n

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ENTJs do think in abstract terms but when communicating, we've consolidated the abstract into its simplest terms so that anyone, regardless of intelligence level or type, can understand us. No use communicating if people don't understand you.
 

entropie

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llewsa ti htiw od ot ylegral sah ezis ssne-p kniht I dnA
 

bcubchgo

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ENTJs do think in abstract terms but when communicating, we've consolidated the abstract into its simplest terms so that anyone, regardless of intelligence level or type, can understand us. No use communicating if people don't understand you.

exactly. abstractions are great for theorizing, but you have to be able to explain them to people.
 

Craft

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Note: Tertiary Extraverted Sensing versus Auxiliary Introverted Intuition.

(This arrangement, along with Dom Te and along with increased sensor environment, causes Te-Se. This makes ENTJ's generally appear less intuitive than other intuitive types. (which, in turn, causes an actual declination of overall preference(low utility in sensor environment) for intuition which results into an actual "ENTJ's are generally less intuitive than other intuitive types."))
 

rav3n

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which results into an actual "ENTJ's are generally less intuitive than other intuitive types."
Assumptive. Appearance of doesn't equal actual. Work with Ni for awhile and you'd eat your post.
 

Redbone

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The ENTJ I know can be very abstract in communication. I think other people find it difficult to understand where she is coming from because she's start in the middle, back up a little, and then go in any direction from there. She speaks in a way that you have to fill in the gaps and they are often big ones.

As far as other stuff...give her an abstract idea and she can see very clearly what needs to be done next: "This needs to be here, that needs to be there, and you're going to need to do...." She can rapidly turn an idea into a verb.

I wish I was more like that.

On the downside, she's much less likely to want to theorize about anything. She may point out some bullets and then she wants to go on to the next thing.
 

FDG

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Assumptive. Appearance of doesn't equal actual. Work with Ni for awhile and you'd eat your post.

Yeah...I believe most people are really surprised whenever we openly show our interior intellectual world. ENTJs are really extraverted, so it's not easy for us to quickly share our Ni elaborations, since Ni can be probably considered the most "obscure" function in many ways.
 

rav3n

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Yeah...I believe most people are really surprised whenever we openly show our interior intellectual world. ENTJs are really extraverted, so it's not easy for us to quickly share our Ni elaborations, since Ni can be probably considered the most "obscure" function in many ways.
It's impossible to describe beyond random flashes of insight. And this might be why it's impossible to elaborate. Take a look at Ti-Ne or Ne-Ti. It takes a detailed approach, each link hooking into another. Te-Ni takes a top down approach where it's overview and then flashes of insight with potential of some extreme detail but in random order.
 

Craft

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Assumptive. Appearance of doesn't equal actual. Work with Ni for awhile and you'd eat your post.

*eats post* yum.

Te doms primarily focus on external objective organization. Heightened preference for "action" requires extensive use of Se. Ergo, less use of Ni. Concordantly, less actual Ni vis a vis more actual Se.



It's impossible to describe beyond random flashes of insight.

It's impossible to describe because you think it's impossible to describe. Ni is perception-ideation. A rear view vis a vis front view.
 

Litvyak

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Is it natural for you to use abstract thoughts and communication and get it in the sudden? What if an ENTJ and an ENTP that I know rarely have any abstract thoughts then does that mean they're not intuitives? But I know this one ENTJ thinks past that 'surface' and is a deep thinker. I need some answers to this, thank you.

We (I) have to tone it down occasionally in favor of being efficient in our (my) communication. I've also noticed that 1) it's not an easy task, abstract thoughts come first, and self-regulation can't always keep up with it, 2) simpler speak comes with simpler mindset and less creativity in the long run. But the goal of communication is to understand and to be understood, and that's my primary concern.
 

Windigo

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It's impossible to describe beyond random flashes of insight. And this might be why it's impossible to elaborate. Take a look at Ti-Ne or Ne-Ti. It takes a detailed approach, each link hooking into another. Te-Ni takes a top down approach where it's overview and then flashes of insight with potential of some extreme detail but in random order.

Interesting . . .
I have constantly been taking in my environment and asking why as far back as I can remember. This leads to constant flashes of insight in understanding seeming random connections between any two points in the kosmos. As children we often come in after an hour of investigation outside and want to share this with our family members who often ask us startlingly strange questions like, "Do you really think ANYONE truly cares about this crap?" So we realize very young that the knowledge of audience is important and temper our conversation or ignore people we think of as ridiculous. This is why we VALUE our extremely intuitive friends who "get it." It seems rather silly to argue who is more intuitive than the other.
 

rav3n

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*eats post* yum.

Te doms primarily focus on external objective organization. Heightened preference for "action" requires extensive use of Se. Ergo, less use of Ni. Concordantly, less actual Ni vis a vis more actual Se.
Internetz would be "nom, nom"! :laugh:

Te dom doesn't always dom. That's assuming that in every situation our dominant process is the first and strongest to manifest. This I can't agree with.
It's impossible to describe because you think it's impossible to describe. Ni is perception-ideation. A rear view vis a vis front view.
I challenge you to describe your subconscious (love to replace this word with unconscious but people don't ever get the wordplay, thinking it's a mistake) thought processes.

Interesting . . .
I have constantly been taking in my environment and asking why as far back as I can remember. This leads to constant flashes of insight in understanding seeming random connections between any two points in the kosmos. As children we often come in after an hour of investigation outside and want to share this with our family members who often ask us startlingly strange questions like, "Do you really think ANYONE truly cares about this crap?" So we realize very young that the knowledge of audience is important and temper our conversation or ignore people we think of as ridiculous. This is why we VALUE our extremely intuitive friends who "get it." It seems rather silly to argue who is more intuitive than the other.
No kidding. As a kid it was so difficult for people to understand what I was trying to communicate to them since it would come out gobbledy-gook very similar to the way that Redbone describes of starting in the middle, working backwards and forwards, random points of entry. When Se finally manifested and Te matured, it was a total relief!
 

MoneyTick

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Is it natural for you to use abstract thoughts and communication and get it in the sudden? What if an ENTJ and an ENTP that I know rarely have any abstract thoughts then does that mean they're not intuitives? But I know this one ENTJ thinks past that 'surface' and is a deep thinker. I need some answers to this, thank you.

It really depends on the context of the conversation.

If it's small-talk, then no.

If it's a discussion that requires abstract input, then yes.

Simple.
 

Craft

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It seems rather silly to argue who is more intuitive than the other.

It's as silly as pigeonholing people. "Who is more F? T or F?"

Internetz would be "nom, nom"! :laugh:

ENTJ?? Internet?? o_O

Te dom doesn't always dom. That's assuming that in every situation our dominant process is the first and strongest to manifest. This I can't agree with.

Yes, not always but generally.

I challenge you to describe your subconscious (love to replace this word with unconscious but people don't ever get the wordplay, thinking it's a mistake) thought processes.

My functions are not the only thing in my subconscious, a lot of interplays and wacky stuff are going on. But really, "function" is language to describe the undefined activity. Ergo, the problem here is not understanding "thought process" but understanding the "function" itself. Concordantly, Ni can be defined in one sentence: "Ni is seeing information by shifting perspectives."
 

rav3n

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Yes, not always but generally.
It's also dependent on whether individuals learn to rein in or balance Te with other cognitive processes. It's not always going to be organise to action where Te and Se get to play. Ni manifests and in some ENTJs, quite strongly where the dom is eclipsed through a lack of trusting its abilities. A form of double-checking.
My functions are not the only thing in my subconscious, a lot of interplays and wacky stuff are going on. But really, "function" is language to describe the undefined activity. Ergo, the problem here is not understanding "thought process" but understanding the "function" itself. Concordantly, Ni can be defined in one sentence: "Ni is seeing information by shifting perspectives."
Taking all nuances of the bolded into consideration, that was nicely consolidated. Hats off to you. I couldn't have done that. :)
 
F

figsfiggyfigs

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I haven't read all the posts, I don't have the time to do so at the moment.

Considering being abstract, and communicating that abstract though to others.
Maybe its because I"m in a foreign country atm and poeple barely understand proper English... but
while remaining relative to concept at hand; but even then they have no idea what I'm trying to say half the time...
 
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