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[INTJ] INTJ decision-making

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Dear INTJs,

I'm curious about how you guys make decisions. I'm personally having a lot of problems myself with decision-making, especially recently, and in general, I feel a resonance with your type in terms of how you see things and weigh value, etc. - I suppose it's the N, Te, Fi overlap. Basically I would like to know how your brains work so you can illuminate us all to your decision-making secrets. :yes:

When it comes to a big decision, what do you usually do?
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
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INTJ
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5w6
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sp/sx
The first step I take, and perhaps the most important one, is to define the problem or choice as clearly, correctly, and completely as possible. Facts, logic, inspiration, etc. won't help if applied to the wrong question. I may think, for example, that the choice is whether to remain in a bad job or not. Upon reflection, I may see that the real issue is what I want to be doing at this stage of my career. It is only in this context that I can effectively evaluate the relative merits of my present job.

Once the problem is clear, I then sweep away as many external constraints and influences as I can. I try to identify unspoken, even subconscious assumptions affecting my judgment, and set them aside unless they are necessary to the problem as stated. For instance, I may realize that I was assuming I must have a job, and broaden that assumption to include schooling since either can contribute to one's career. I try to imagine an ideal solution, unhindered by "reality" in any way.

Once I can see this fairly clearly, I bring reality back, piece by piece. To continue with my example, I might ask such questions as: do I have the necessary qualifications for my ideal job/position? What similar opportunities are available now? What contacts do I have? Would I have to relocate? I will research the information needed to answer these and other questions, rather thoroughly if the decision is important. A critical part of this process is a cross-check with my other values and priorities. My ideal job may be available, but only somewhere I do not wish to live; or my current job, however bad, may provide a training opportunity I consider valuable. I will make lists and comparisons, and come up with what objectively seems to be the optimal solution.

At this point, I usually step back from all the data and analysis and ask whether it makes sense in the big picture. For big decisions especially, there is almost always some associated risk. Few outcomes are certain. It may seem odd to say, but I place much weight on my gut feel here, so much so that when there is no time for a proper analysis, I have learned to rely on it. Fortunately it almost always agrees with the analysis, but when it doesn't, it has proven wise to go back and "check my answers". Usually there is something I have overlooked, like one of those unrecognized assumptions.
 

highlander

Administrator
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Dec 23, 2009
Messages
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sx/sp
The trite answer would be:
- first look at the big picture
- then apply logic
- then consider feelings
- finally look at facts

I think I rely heavily on gut feeling, intuition, or a general sense of direction on which way to go or not go - thinking about the big picture, the details, looking at things holistically. It's not really logical. That's tempered by a consideration of what's practical, addressing the most important thing (s), and is likely to achieve the best result. I'll frequently put myself in the shoes of others who are impacted by the decision but that is more of a conscious learned behavior.

In making important decisions, I do tend to rely heavily on the input of others that I trust who have perspectives that I do not.

As far as facts and evidence goes, it depends on the kind of decision it is. In some cases, it is perfectly reasonable to rely on the past as a predictor of the future. In other cases, facts are not really the most important thing at all.
 

Amie

New member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
6
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
9w1
One thing I do without always realizing it (until I have to explain my decision to someone or walk them through their own decision making process) is to figure the worst case scenario. I don't mean it in a depressing or negative way, but the worst case scenario is usually not that bad for any situation and that takes a lot of pressure off.

From there I can rule out the bad options (ones in which the worst case scenario is likely or unacceptable) and I can reduce the number of options on the table. I think I group options together to reduce the number I'm dealing with as well. I kind of categorize them. Then when I have it down to one category I can open that group back up and repeat the process with the options that were contained there.

I do incorporate my feelings into the decision as well. I look at them when I've narrowed it down a bit, although they can rule out an elimination if the feeling is strong enough and logical. I know that seems like a contradiction, but feelings can be misleading for me if they aren't at least mostly grounded in logic. Intuition rules more than feelings over the course of making the choice.

It's a very smooth process, and I can usually walk non-INTJs through it, helping them to see the logic and pros/cons of each option. It seems to lower their stress to have a calm, objective voice systematically guiding them along. So if you know an INTJ who knows you relatively well, ask them to help you decide. Hopefully they can let you bounce your thoughts off of them, and they can redirect them in this way.
 

Beargryllz

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2,719
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INTP
I do know that I would trust an INTJ to make a decision (more than any other type), if only because I'm largely incapable of doing so.
 

Shiet_Happens

New member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
85
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INTJ
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5w6?
The trite answer would be:
- first look at the big picture
- then apply logic
- then consider feelings
- finally look at facts

Basically something like this.
1. I first think about what I need or what needs to be completed
2. Set your goal
3. Best case scenario of reaching your goal(I usually never achieve my best case)
4. Find our how you want the last step to look like/be (before you complete it)
5. Start from your first step onward, considering any factor as you progress
*6. Think of anyways to make it easier, more efficient, or get around it. (Don't necassarily have to do it or when you have nothing else to do)
?????
PROFIT
* Optional

I only consider others feelings, mine don't matter :p

If that didn't make sense heres an example. (1&2 are basically the same, but 2 is like setting it in stone)

1. Need to finish all my homework for school
2. Finish all my homwork before it's due
3. Have it all done before school/the class
4. Have my homework out and ready to be collected
5.
-Breaks/meals and distractions will amount to around 3-4 hours
-Homework for 2 of the classes take 3+ hours
-Homework for the rest take between 0-1.5 hours
-The rate of how fast I do hw decreases until I take a break
6.
-Doing a shit job would be faster/easier
-Copy of someone
-Don't do it
-Hope for an extension
-Skip class
-Fake sickness
-....etc

Hope that helped ^.^ :bananallama: :bananallama: :bananallama:
 

Andy

Supreme High Commander
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,211
MBTI Type
INTJ
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5w6
The first, and often most difficult step, is to decide what you want. Once that is done everything else gets easier.

Take the desired result and mapout a route to it. Sometimes easiest to start with current conditions and trace a path to the destination. Sometimes it's easier to start with the destination and work backwards to the present conditions. Often a bit of both works well.

Also don't forhet to make your plans flexible - it's hard to predict everything. A backup plan that can cope with multiple events is always useful.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
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INFP
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6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
The first, and often most difficult step, is to decide what you want. Once that is done everything else gets easier.

Take the desired result and mapout a route to it. Sometimes easiest to start with current conditions and trace a path to the destination. Sometimes it's easier to start with the destination and work backwards to the present conditions. Often a bit of both works well.

how do you know if your route is a good one?

Basically something like this.
1. I first think about what I need or what needs to be completed
2. Set your goal
3. Best case scenario of reaching your goal(I usually never achieve my best case)
4. Find our how you want the last step to look like/be (before you complete it)
5. Start from your first step onward, considering any factor as you progress
*6. Think of anyways to make it easier, more efficient, or get around it. (Don't necassarily have to do it or when you have nothing else to do)
?????
PROFIT [...]

Hope that helped ^.^ :bananallama: :bananallama: :bananallama:

it did, thank you! :yes:

the best case scenario is interesting... and the touch-and-go as you progress. i've always felt like once i've made the decision, that's kind of it. maybe that's that whole "following through" thing. haha...

I do know that I would trust an INTJ to make a decision (more than any other type), if only because I'm largely incapable of doing so.

inorite!

i figured they're good ones to go to for advice about decision making for this reason :)

One thing I do without always realizing it [...] is to figure the worst case scenario. I don't mean it in a depressing or negative way, but the worst case scenario is usually not that bad for any situation and that takes a lot of pressure off.

From there I can rule out the bad options (ones in which the worst case scenario is likely or unacceptable) and I can reduce the number of options on the table. I think I group options together to reduce the number I'm dealing with as well. I kind of categorize them. Then when I have it down to one category I can open that group back up and repeat the process with the options that were contained there.

huh. that's a good point.

It seems to lower their stress to have a calm, objective voice systematically guiding them along. So if you know an INTJ who knows you relatively well, ask them to help you decide. Hopefully they can let you bounce your thoughts off of them, and they can redirect them in this way.

lol yeah. it's so true. having someone around really helps stabilize me... i guess i have enough T to do the process okay but don't trust it much. i need to go INTJ hunting. :net:

The trite answer would be:
- first look at the big picture
- then apply logic
- then consider feelings
- finally look at facts

:laugh:

As far as facts and evidence goes, it depends on the kind of decision it is. In some cases, it is perfectly reasonable to rely on the past as a predictor of the future. In other cases, facts are not really the most important thing at all.

it's interesting to me that you separate facts and logic. i always pictured the two together, but i suppose it's quite true that there's a difference.

The first step I take, and perhaps the most important one, is to define the problem or choice as clearly, correctly, and completely as possible. Facts, logic, inspiration, etc. won't help if applied to the wrong question. I may think, for example, that the choice is whether to remain in a bad job or not. Upon reflection, I may see that the real issue is what I want to be doing at this stage of my career. It is only in this context that I can effectively evaluate the relative merits of my present job.

Once the problem is clear, I then sweep away as many external constraints and influences as I can. I try to identify unspoken, even subconscious assumptions affecting my judgment, and set them aside unless they are necessary to the problem as stated. For instance, I may realize that I was assuming I must have a job, and broaden that assumption to include schooling since either can contribute to one's career. I try to imagine an ideal solution, unhindered by "reality" in any way.

Once I can see this fairly clearly, I bring reality back, piece by piece. To continue with my example, I might ask such questions as: do I have the necessary qualifications for my ideal job/position? What similar opportunities are available now? What contacts do I have? Would I have to relocate? I will research the information needed to answer these and other questions, rather thoroughly if the decision is important. A critical part of this process is a cross-check with my other values and priorities. My ideal job may be available, but only somewhere I do not wish to live; or my current job, however bad, may provide a training opportunity I consider valuable. I will make lists and comparisons, and come up with what objectively seems to be the optimal solution.

At this point, I usually step back from all the data and analysis and ask whether it makes sense in the big picture. For big decisions especially, there is almost always some associated risk. Few outcomes are certain. It may seem odd to say, but I place much weight on my gut feel here, so much so that when there is no time for a proper analysis, I have learned to rely on it. Fortunately it almost always agrees with the analysis, but when it doesn't, it has proven wise to go back and "check my answers". Usually there is something I have overlooked, like one of those unrecognized assumptions.

this is cool. it sounds like yall are seeing this as a multi-step process, and one with clear stages. i guess my biggest question is, you don't get hung up on making a "right" decision? just one that works? or i guess the right decision is technically one that works... hm...
 

musicheck

New member
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
61
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
The first step is to get a good sense of where you want to be 10 years from now. Next, you figure out how to get there. Decision making feels a lot more concrete if you're connecting dots than if you simply ask yourself "what seems right?".
 

Usehername

On a mission
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
3,794
Here is how to do it well!

Step One: Gather information.
What, specifically, am I deciding on? Clearly naming it is half the battle.
What is the context? Does this pretty much just affect me, or is this going to affect others? How much? What is their preferred outcome? Why do they prefer that outcome? Ultimately, does it matter what other people prefer? As a 20something without a child or relationship, I am able to make some totally selfish decisions. This may not always be the case, so I have been taking risks now. There are pros and cons to every situation you're in--maximize the pros you have working for you.

Step Two: Decide what my specific priorities are.
If I know, that's great. If I don't:
I created a three page list of ethical standards and quotes by which I want to live my life, sometimes it's helpful to go to my abstractions when I'm confused about how I want to deal with a specific instance. I only refer back to it maybe twice a year. Perhaps I should do it more--it's always helpful when I'm feeling disoriented about my priorities.

Step Three: Remind myself that, often, the best long-term decision is the slightly less appealing short term decision
This can be as simple as deciding to read a book instead of sitting dazed in front of a screen consuming a movie--I want to be knowledgeable, and books are high-octane vocabulary & well-contextualized knowledge builders.
Other times, it's far more complex and difficult, e.g. withstanding a bit of heat to maintain a prior commitment or standard.

Step Four: Execute decision, and remind myself that life is a work in progress to avoid decision remorse
So long as I'm making a decision I am not ashamed of, I remind myself that life is a series of small choices, and I can fine-tune along the way. We can only do the best we can with the resources available at the time.

Hindsight is a beautiful resource, but that's not a resource available to you in the moment that you're executing an action, so do your best and then give yourself a break. :yes:

Generally, it's better to take action repeatedly, fixing things along the way, than it is to not take any action at all.

Don't fall for the myth of a beautiful single execution. Life is a series of small actions, and the great thing about it is that you can pause between them and reflect on how these actions are working for you.

Personal example:
Myth: I just uprooted myself from Canada and committed to 7 years in the USA to finish my PhD
Reality: 18 months ago I began researching schools and talking to people who had done grad school, because I was considering that instead of the work force, THEN
I talked to profs who knew me, asking questions and getting feedback specific to me, THEN
I was invested enough in the idea to ask for letters of rec, THEN
I made a short list of where I could see myself flourishing, THEN
I filled out my applications, THEN
I applied and got acceptances/rejections, etc. etc.
All of these moments let me stop, pause, gather information (including my feelings) and decide how to proceed. At any moment I gave myself permission to chart a different course, which is what I will continue to do on this path. I don't presume to know what life will be like in x amount of years because I'm continually refining my trajectory, goals and priorities. Don't fall for the myth of a grand execution.
 

Rex

New member
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Jul 28, 2010
Messages
600
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INTJ
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sp/sx
Short version:

Order of importance relative to the current goal.

ex.
If price is important, presision gets a day of.
If speed is important, comfort gets a day of.
If Love is important, saving money gets a day of.

And info/details is very important to make the right decision.
 

Andy

Supreme High Commander
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,211
MBTI Type
INTJ
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5w6
how do you know if your route is a good one?

You make a judegment call. As with most things, it's hard to be absolutely sure that something will work until you've done it and found out. Oft times, you will know that success isn't certain. All you can do is play the numbers. Choice the path that gives the best ratio of rewards to danger (or as best as you can estimate it) and go with it. If it turns bad, pick up the pieces and try again.

That last is perhaps the most important bit of advice. One one goes through life without making mistakes unless they never make a decision at all.
 

highlander

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Messages
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how do you know if your route is a good one?

this is cool. it sounds like yall are seeing this as a multi-step process, and one with clear stages. i guess my biggest question is, you don't get hung up on making a "right" decision? just one that works? or i guess the right decision is technically one that works... hm...

The first step is to get a good sense of where you want to be 10 years from now. Next, you figure out how to get there. Decision making feels a lot more concrete if you're connecting dots than if you simply ask yourself "what seems right?".

Right now, I have a one page summary goals set for 8 years, 3 years, and 1 year. So, when I make decisions, I try and make them within the context of those goals. I haven't always been quite as formal about it, but do think it helps to write them down.

The inclination of someone with INTJ preferences is to use Ni and Te. Te does things like focusing on results, breaking things down into segments, and evaluating progress. Ni helps to develop the overall vision - it synthesizes, integrates, is holistic, perceives depth and breadth, and provides insight. Tertiary Fi somehow provides the passion I think - and a sense of what is right, wrong, just, fair, etc.

It seems that INTJs are often good at making decisions using those preferences. However, there are blind spots. An INTJ may want to change too much - be too revolutionary. They may not be entirely realistic. They may not consider how others may respond or react. My belief is that the best decisions are those that leverage all 8 of the cognitive processes. Since it is quite difficult for any one person to do this effectively, you enlist others to provide the perspectives you are weak in. For example, a decision made jointly by an INTJ and an ISFJ together, would likely be a much better decision than one made by either one individually on their own. I pick those two because their cognitive process order is reversed. The INTJ would use Ni, Te, and Fi. The ISFJ would provide Fe, Si, and to a lesser extent Ti which would be a helpful compliment.


I created a three page list of ethical standards and quotes by which I want to live my life, sometimes it's helpful to go to my abstractions when I'm confused about how I want to deal with a specific instance. I only refer back to it maybe twice a year. Perhaps I should do it more--it's always helpful when I'm feeling disoriented about my priorities.


I had a one page mission statement for years that I updated and maintained. As I look back on it now, I would change the priorities but It did help to ground me and keep me focused.
 

Oaky

Travelling mind
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sp/so
Perception of the many different possibilities of the same case.

Take in the most strongest probability factors on all given perceptions and determine which is the most likely conclusion. If the largest of the most likely case of what is most probable to the right conclusion is anywhere near the second most probable case I must gather and suck more variables to take into account to make a stronger contrast of solid surety.

Now I must consider my own abilities of understanding whether I truly understand what I am supposed to understand. If I do not I will go back and start over. I must remove doubt from my understanding and from my abilities to perceive things in the proper manner.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
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sp/so
Step one: don't worry about it.

Step two: decide what you want.

Step three: if you can't decide between two possibilities, flip a coin. If you don't like the result of the coin toss, choose the other possibility.

Step four: don't worry about it, just decide.

Step five: It doesn't matter what you choose, only that you choose it.

Step six: having chosen your choice, make it happen. Don't worry about all the other possibilities for now, just make THIS choice happen.

Step seven: Now that you've made this choice happen, you are free to choose any other possibility, including undoing your current choice (usually).

Once you know that if you choose something, it will happen, all of your other choices will become coherent.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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i guess my biggest question is, you don't get hung up on making a "right" decision? just one that works? or i guess the right decision is technically one that works... hm...
For me, the right decision is the one that works best. There is often no ideal decision, and more often, several decisions that each are "right" in their own way. As Usehername says, the best long-term decision may not always be most appealing in the short term. I am where I am now largely because of deferring immediate gratification for future gain. Now is that future. As for implementation, I always plan a "grand execution", but I plan for multiple contingencies as well, including the worst case scenario. This allows me to reorient my plan fairly quickly if an unexpected roadblock or opportunity presents itself.
 

Thisica

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Feb 19, 2011
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383
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NiTe
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5w4
I do know that I would trust an INTJ to make a decision (more than any other type), if only because I'm largely incapable of doing so.

In what way? I thought that people can make good decisions at times [even when they're not frequent].
 

arisniam

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Feb 20, 2011
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14
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INTJ
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1w9
One thing I do without always realizing it (until I have to explain my decision to someone or walk them through their own decision making process) is to figure the worst case scenario. I don't mean it in a depressing or negative way, but the worst case scenario is usually not that bad for any situation and that takes a lot of pressure off.

From there I can rule out the bad options (ones in which the worst case scenario is likely or unacceptable) and I can reduce the number of options on the table. I think I group options together to reduce the number I'm dealing with as well. I kind of categorize them. Then when I have it down to one category I can open that group back up and repeat the process with the options that were contained there.

I do incorporate my feelings into the decision as well. I look at them when I've narrowed it down a bit, although they can rule out an elimination if the feeling is strong enough and logical. I know that seems like a contradiction, but feelings can be misleading for me if they aren't at least mostly grounded in logic. Intuition rules more than feelings over the course of making the choice.

Precisely so. Your answer describes my whole decision making process up to the last punctuation mark. Therefore I couldn't help myself replying with a quote.

The worst case scenario calculation is particularly true. I find it works fine most of the time, but it can be pretty detrimental when the worst possible conclusion is something to be severely concerned about (e.g. health issues).
 

Santosha

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sx
If you make a decision that you thought was right but ended up being wrong, but it involved other people and what you did couldn't be undone.. how would you handle it? you know, if you loved someone =)
 

Haight

Doesn't Read Your Posts
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Messages
6,232
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INTj
Receive question --> Give answer --> Review facts if questioned --> Create post-decision reasoning if necessary--> Repeat (hopefully withought steps 3 & 4 this time.)
 
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