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[MBTI General] Trying to understand the INTX mind

Sioul

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Hi everyone, relatively new to this forum, but not to myerrs briggs/socionics. I'm an ENFP, recently got out of a r/t with a guy who I'm pretty sure was INTP, may have been INTJ.

When we first met, he seemed very sincere, interested, honest. The connection was very easy to maintain and it did not feel like I had to do anything help things from progressing. About a month ago my intuitive spidey senses went off and I started to feel like something was just not right. Long story short, I ended up finding out that he was very dishonest with me and also seeing many different people on the side, after we had talked about being monogomous and exlusive...

When I confronted him about it, he turned the situation on me, avoided the evidence against him and blamed me for making him feel like I did not trust him and "needy".

I've always given him ample space and independance, I guess I had to because it was a semi-long distance r/t. About a 3 hour commute so we'd usually see each other on the weekends. The last month I do admit to being a little bit more curious about where he was...etc, but this was because my spidey senses were telling me something wasn't right, along with some sketchy behavior/explanations from him that just did not add up.

Can anyone give me some possibilities as to the thought process in his head to justify this? It's as if he does not feel guilty a tall about lying, cheating...any of it. I don't understand how someone can do this without atleast feeling a little bit bad about their actions.
 

INTPness

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Hi everyone, relatively new to this forum, but not to myerrs briggs/socionics. I'm an ENFP, recently got out of a r/t with a guy who I'm pretty sure was INTP, may have been INTJ.

When we first met, he seemed very sincere, interested, honest. The connection was very easy to maintain and it did not feel like I had to do anything help things from progressing. About a month ago my intuitive spidey senses went off and I started to feel like something was just not right. Long story short, I ended up finding out that he was very dishonest with me and also seeing many different people on the side, after we had talked about being monogomous and exlusive...

When I confronted him about it, he turned the situation on me, avoided the evidence against him and blamed me for making him feel like I did not trust him and "needy".

I've always given him ample space and independance, I guess I had to because it was a semi-long distance r/t. About a 3 hour commute so we'd usually see each other on the weekends. The last month I do admit to being a little bit more curious about where he was...etc, but this was because my spidey senses were telling me something wasn't right, along with some sketchy behavior/explanations from him that just did not add up.

Can anyone give me some possibilities as to the thought process in his head to justify this? It's as if he does not feel guilty a tall about lying, cheating...any of it. I don't understand how someone can do this without atleast feeling a little bit bad about their actions.

I hate to say it, but I don't think this is type related at all. He cheated, plain and simple. There are always two sides to the story, but that doesn't justify his cheating. Who knows what was going through his head. I'm of the belief that cheating is always wrong. If you don't like the situation you're in, get out of it first, and then you're no longer obligated to that person.

The only thing I can speak to in this thread is you being an ENFP and him saying that you were "needy" and didn't trust him. I'm not "turning it back on you" - that's not my point - I actually sympathize with you and your situation. I just know from experience with an ENFP, she did require a lot of attention (which, I understand, is relative). INTP's really, really desire a high level of autonomy and "mental space", as I like to think of it. You can be right there in the room with me, but if I'm engaged in my thinking, I don't want to be interrupted. I need space. It doesn't mean I love the person I'm with any less than anyone else would love them.

And we hate being "molded" into someone's idea of who we should be or what we should be doing at any given time. If you want to go to a concert on Friday night, then go have fun! I won't be going with you this time (or maybe next time either), but go do your thing. Basically, I think of the 16 types, it's fairly easy for us to feel "encroached on" or "suffocated" in a relationship. We love you and all, but seriously respect our space. It's very important to us. And it's been my experience in relationships that when the person I'm with doesn't do this (even after I explain myself), then I just have to get out of the relationship. I can't stay in it when it's like that. That doesn't mean I'll cheat, but I will get out.

Don't monitor me, don't track me, don't text me constantly, be understanding if I can't call you back for an hour or two when I'm at work, etc, etc. Space. Breathing room.

The ENFP I became very close with (I was never with her, we just became very good friends) would call me and it would go like this:

ENFP: I made dinner. Want to come over?
INTP: Huh? Really? I'm wrapped up in something right now.
ENFP: Uhhh, oh. I have movies we could watch???
INTP (half my attention on her, half my attention on the other thing): Yeah, what movies do you have?

Not wanting to hurt her feelings (and also because she was super fun to be around), I would put what I was doing aside and go hang out with her. But, after 2 hours, I'd say, "Well, I'm going to go home now." And she'd seem surprised or even sad.

Then the next day, she'd call me again. And I'd say, "Well, we just hung out last night. Maybe we can get together this weekend or next week sometime."

And she began to get kind of mean and pouty. It got to the point that if I didn't want to hang out, I felt really guilty. And as much as I cared about her, I just can't do that. I have to be able to be me.

Again, I'm not justifying his behavior. Not even close. I'm sorry that this happened to you. Just trying to offer up more perspective. Hope things get better for you.
 

Sioul

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Thanks very much for the quick reply. I completely understand what you are saying, I know from past experiences, dating experiences to the past, my biggest flaw is that I am so emotional and expressive in an emotional way that it can seem a bit much.

I used to think that because I was this way, then if someone was not giving me the same emotional affection that I would give them, it would mean that they did not care about me and I would get angry...but that was the past.

I've become much more aware with the helps of myerrs briggs that everyone is different, not everyone shows affection or takes things the same way that I would on a personal level, so I get what you are saying. I think I was very very cautious to give him his space and not be that needy person that I know that I could be in the past. It would even get to the point where he would tell me, if you are thinking of something or feeling something, just tell me, I'd rather you share it with me than having it build up in your mind.

I guess what confuses me is why would he continued to cheat and lie to me when I have very rationaly and calmly talked to him about the pace that we were moving and whether or not this was right for him? I told him that if at anytime he felt we were moving to fast or that things weren't seeming right, to just be honest and let me know and I would completely understand.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm having a hard time understanding how he could do this all without feeling guilty.

But maybe your right, maybe this is not an INTP thing, it might have been more of a "I met an dishonest person with bad values"

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, its nice to know that this is not an INTP thing.
 

INTP

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i didnt read what intpness wrote, but this isnt type related, he just simply is an asshole. maybe he does feel guilty but doesent want to show it to you, because then he would have to take the blame? either way, hes still an asshole and you shouldnt waste your time trying to figure him out because there is no deep meanings to being an asshole.
 

Trentham

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But maybe your right, maybe this is not an INTP thing, it might have been more of a "I met an dishonest person with bad values."
I concur - the fact that he apparently felt no guilt or remorse about his actions seems especially un-INTP-like.
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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I concur - the fact that he apparently felt no guilt or remorse about his actions seems especially un-INTP-like.

I agree. As introverts, our social interactions tend to be closer, but with fewer people. We also put a lot of thought and concern into everything we do. I honestly think it hughly unlikely that an INTP OR INTJ would have the need nor ability to date several people at once without guilt. Why would we do that? We're normally very happy with just one, or even no partners. It's probably a bit more likely if they were an extravert, like an ENTP or something (they can seem introverted), but it would have to be a pretty evil one. These people are more likely to 'play games' and do risky things for fun. But whatever his type, he's an asshole.

INTPs, really, we have a low level of social-emotional energy, which is why we're introverts. We couldn't be bothered doing that whole juggling act. It would just seem unnecessary and pointless.
 

coconut

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I agree with everyone here. Whatever the type, I'd say the relationship didn't mean enough to him to keep it monogamous, and then he lied about it on top of that. Who needs that? Move on; you can do better.
 

Sioul

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That's what my intuition was telling me. I've basically come to realize that he has lied about everything in his life. Or atleast slightly altered the truth in order for it to make the most sense in his life.

I guess what made me curious from a typology standpoint was whether or not an INT_ could actually find a way to justify this type of behavior in their head??

It was so baffling to me, when I confronted him he acted like he was the victim and I was smothering him and was always to suscipicious of where he was...etc Clearly it was for good reason.

It's funny whenever something traumatic or unpleasant happens to me, in order for me to keep my sanity I turn to myers briggs in order to try to rationalize it because I believe that people are genuinely good natured.

Not the case :(
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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Nope. Plenty are just assholes. And either he's not concerned about justifying his behaviour (which an INT would probably need to do) he's probably not an INT, a psychopath, or a nihilist (though since he is projecting his subjective opinion of you, this is unlikely, unless he is a deluded nihilist).
 

Thalassa

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I would agree with the person who said that INTx view us (us, meaning ENFPs) as "needy."

But as for the rest of it, seriously, he sounds like an asshole. I don't know if it has anything to do with him being an NT, unless he's just one of those NTs who is so out of touch with feeling that he can't even wrap his mind around it. I doubt it though. Most *mature* INTx I've encountered will give you something...an explanation...evidence that they are a human being that isn't completely heartless...in fact, IME I've known two INTx men IRL (non-romantically) who seemed to be reasonably ethical to the point of even surpassing an NF. The first, who I think may be INTJ, had been married to his wife for like 20 years and the other - he can't figure out if he's INTP or INTJ -is so rationally ethical that it makes me feel like a total heathen in comparison.

So it's not just about him being INTx, though I will admit some of them seem emotionally...distant...or a bit...disengaged...perhaps a bit...judgey of feeler qualities...but I don't think him being a cheater and not willing to explain or justify it has anything to do specifically with being INTx.
 

Mondo

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I concur with what others have said. This isn't type-related- it's just someone being an immature asshole. Also, he might have not seen it as a relationship like you have.. especially given the long distance.
 

Sioul

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all this asshole talk is incredibly theraputic :)
 

Trentham

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As introverts, our social interactions tend to be closer, but with fewer people. We also put a lot of thought and concern into everything we do. I honestly think it hughly unlikely that an INTP OR INTJ would have the need nor ability to date several people at once without guilt. Why would we do that? We're normally very happy with just one, or even no partners.
Very true. As weird as it may sound for NTs to be saying, emotional intimacy is immensely important for us in relationships. We don't open up to very many people; so when we do, we tend to value that relationship considerably.
 

Totenkindly

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all this asshole talk is incredibly theraputic :)

I know, I'm to the point of running a Find on the word on this page to get a count, because it seems to have become the insulte du jour! :)

Honestly, I can't imagine an INTx "seeing many other people on the side."
That's just waaaaay too much energy and distraction for a type that values its space and independence.

Usually if INTPs screw people over, it's by not giving enough energy to the one romantic relationship they're allowed themselves to become part of.

A three-hour commute is pretty hard, too, to maintain an LTR with. Many people would have issues with that. It's not unlikely it wasn't working for him, and he should have just broken it off with you since your time together was limited; it's clear he wants someone (or "someones" *cough*) nearby...

He handled things immaturely with you -- first by not stating his needs, and then by not owning up to his own behavior. At least at the end he could have apologized for screwing you over rather than having the balls to just end things if it wasn't working, that would have shown a little class at least; instead he tried to blame you for his choices. Good riddance.
 

ExAstrisSpes

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He handled things immaturely with you -- first by not stating his needs, and then by not owning up to his own behavior. At least at the end he could have apologized for screwing you over rather than having the balls to just end things if it wasn't working, that would have shown a little class at least; instead he tried to blame you for his choices. Good riddance.

An INTP did something similar to me, then didn't own up to his behavior when I found out and called him on it. Granted, that was after the relationship ended.

Good riddance indeed.
 

Blank

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I think the LTR would precisely be the reason why an INTX would juggle multiple partners.

I think people on this board overlook the fact that people are people, regardless of type. An INT could very well go out of his/her way to date a shit-ton of people if they wanted to.


DFS
dfs.png

"A breadth-first search makes a lot of sense for dating in general, actually; it suggests dating a bunch of people casually before getting serious, rather than having a series of five-year relationships one after another."


But back to the OP: I'm sorry you had to experience what you've experienced, but it really isn't type-related. If it were, everyone would avoid the "cheating" type.
 

Totenkindly

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I think the LTR would precisely be the reason why an INTX would juggle multiple partners.

I think people on this board overlook the fact that people are people, regardless of type. An INT could very well go out of his/her way to date a shit-ton of people if they wanted to.

Well, as pretty evident elsewhere, INTP usually lacks so much social skill earlier in life that dating multiple people is typically an impossibility. In anecdotal experience (which is easy to find), they typically have enough trouble getting even one.

I still wouldn't bet on this person being an INTP based on dating style. The most evidence for it is the passivity of not just closing off the long-distance relationship; there's little risk involved in ending things over the phone, a face-to-face wasn't even necessary, a simple text/email would have worked. Either she had something he didn't want to give up, or he has an inability to say no / weak social skills. Which doesn't bode well to be a multiple dater.

But yeah, whatever. The guy is a louse.
(And xkcd rocks)
 

Sioul

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I know, I'm to the point of running a Find on the word on this page to get a count, because it seems to have become the insulte du jour! :)

Honestly, I can't imagine an INTx "seeing many other people on the side."
That's just waaaaay too much energy and distraction for a type that values its space and independence.

Usually if INTPs screw people over, it's by not giving enough energy to the one romantic relationship they're allowed themselves to become part of.

A three-hour commute is pretty hard, too, to maintain an LTR with. Many people would have issues with that. It's not unlikely it wasn't working for him, and he should have just broken it off with you since your time together was limited; it's clear he wants someone (or "someones" *cough*) nearby...

He handled things immaturely with you -- first by not stating his needs, and then by not owning up to his own behavior. At least at the end he could have apologized for screwing you over rather than having the balls to just end things if it wasn't working, that would have shown a little class at least; instead he tried to blame you for his choices. Good riddance.

Jennifer, this is what I thought to myself. Maybe the three hour commute was to much, I started noticing subtle changes when the sexual energy was not as potent as it was in the beginning. I mean I would have thought that after not seeing your partner in a week, it would be at its peak. So thats when I first started to think there was something that just didnt seem right.

Now that I go back and break things down, what also surprises me is the level of confidence he had towards juggling all of his "lives". He had notes written from lovers just sitting on his desk, I brought my tooth brush with me once and found another one there, extra parking passes left out with different makes of cars....I mean it was all infront of me the entire time but he seemed so genuine that I never even thought to question any of it?

He either thought I was a complete idiot and that I could never figure out his mastermind ways, or its almost as if he wanted me to catch him...

do you think as an INT_ it was to much energy for him to have that uncomfortable break up conversation with me?
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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do you think as an INT_ it was to much energy for him to have that uncomfortable break up conversation with me?

Possibly. I'm still not sure he is one, but going on your idea, it is possible the stress once he is caught might be too much to bear and he would probably realise how risky he had been, probably think about how it was stupid to do, and not want to have to deal with aftershock, retreating to somewhere he can collect his thoughts. However, this doesn't say whether he feels any remorse or not. If I'm right and he's really an extrovert, this would be less likely to be the case.
 

Totenkindly

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Jennifer, this is what I thought to myself. Maybe the three hour commute was to much, I started noticing subtle changes when the sexual energy was not as potent as it was in the beginning. I mean I would have thought that after not seeing your partner in a week, it would be at its peak. So thats when I first started to think there was something that just didnt seem right.

Now that I go back and break things down, what also surprises me is the level of confidence he had towards juggling all of his "lives". He had notes written from lovers just sitting on his desk, I brought my tooth brush with me once and found another one there, extra parking passes left out with different makes of cars....I mean it was all infront of me the entire time but he seemed so genuine that I never even thought to question any of it?

He either thought I was a complete idiot and that I could never figure out his mastermind ways, or its almost as if he wanted me to catch him...

do you think as an INT_ it was to much energy for him to have that uncomfortable break up conversation with me?

Well, let's just assume that he is INTP, then, rather than INTJ... and If I have to pick one, I would say INTP more than INTJ in terms of how he interacted with you.

INTJ, I think, is far more quick to just end things that are not working, and not make excuses about it. And more likely to take care, if they want to control the situation; Te is good at managing situations, if anything, and achieving practical goals.

Why INTP, out of the two, if I have to pick one of those?

1. Quick to see possibilities in something and jump right in on the vision of those possibilities (i.e., dating you despite the 3-hour commute). Sounds like he was swept away on emotion, over his head.

2. Quick to lose steam once you are not nearby, and finding a lack of commitment to hold him to the relationship. Three hours is a lot of time and a huge inconvenience for visiting; chances are you would want to get together as much as possible on the weekends, which now eats his weekends up (another inconvenience) and forces a schedule (INTP anathema)

<put another way, for #1 and #2 -- he is REACTIVE to the situation... he's responding to visions and information in the moment, and as soon as the situation changes, he finds his interest dissipating. That's very P.>

3. Rationally, he wouldn't see the relationship as a good use of his time if there are other women locally he could be involved with.

4. Avoiding the "breakup" conversation. Typical INTP dodge. He doesn't know how to start it, and I would expect him to have built up some resentment against you -- after all (in HIS mind), you were the one "keeping him in the relationship" and forcing both of you to adhere to that wild schedule.. no matter how many clues he left around. He probably would have been thinking of you as the "stupid one" for not seeing how nothing was really working out and thus continuing with the relationship past sensibility... more things to hold against you, to justify his behavior later.

5. The "clue" thing. INTP can clean up its tracks well, if it so desires -- big picture coherence helps pinpoint items that are out of place or that could trigger disclosure, but it sounds like he wasn't even trying. INTP is reactive, as I said above, and initially passive in relationships until some experience and self-identity/assertiveness is developed... and it's a very common strategy in the meanwhile to basically force other people to force the confrontation. That way, the INTP can REACT to it rather than having to initiate it. Reacting is something an INTP is good at. And this way, you become the aggressor and take the dominating/enslaver role that he has put you in, and then he can react against you and rebel. (Making a decision on his own would make him the authority figure in the argument; but he feels powerless and wouldn't know how to behave with authority.)

Does this make sense? In an argument, he would rather sit and wait and respond to your assertions ... and then once you quit, the battle is over. If he chose to initiate things, he'd have to take the attack front, push for his point of view, and run the risk of you refusing to let him go, but in any case as the initiator, he'd have to officially beat you; here, he positioned things in a way that you were far more inclined to dump him (taking the decision off his hands) and in any case as soon as you stop pressing the issue, the relationship is over anyway; he doesn't actually have to beat you in order to win, he just has to outlast you. It's strategically quite a masterpiece stroke, even if very immature and unfair to you.

Just my ideas, if he does happen to be an INTP. But yes, the energy drain to handle relationally conflict is immense for INTPs... partly because relationships are confusing, and they're not within the realm of the main function perspectives.
 
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