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[INTP] Are INTPs the J-est P's?

lets eat pie

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Lenore Thomson wrote in her book, "Extreme extroverts...may find that their self-experience coincides almost entirely with their P or J traits. For extreme introverts, the opposite is true".

I never really understood that. Can someone explain?
 

Robopop

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I never really understood that. Can someone explain?

Basically the reasoning goes, since introverts have their dominant function the opposite of their J or P letter, for instance a ISTP: introverted thinking is a judgement function, if they are extremely introverted they should take on the characteristics of a judger(because they would be weaker in their extroverted perception(extroverted sensing) and stronger in their introverted judgement function.

I have a problem with this because judger traits are STILL MAINLY extroverted judgement traits, NOT introverted judgement traits, introverted and extroverted judgement are VERY different from one another, so just because a ISTP is a strong introvert does not mean he will be more "organized"(maybe more opinionated and narrow-minded though), in fact, they're very likely to be even less organized because they care less about the external world, in other words, this reasoning is bs.

And I don't really buy this "internal organization" thing Ps are supposed to have too, a better term would be an internal standard they go by(in contrast to the external standards), this is why some Ps are known to be very nonconformist and rebellious. I also think in some ways this internal standard is flexible(but rigid against opposing external standards) and will change alot to accommodate new information(from extroverted perception). One thing I will definitely agree on is this unbalanced ISTP will be very close-minded, but being extremely introverted still doesn't make one unbalanced(relying too much on their dominant function without good, reliable input from their extroverted perceiving will make them unbalanced, their thinking will be kind of self-serving).
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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Though I will add that it's probably the Ti which makes us prepare for things and work to improve upon them, which is kinda J. Possibly Ne, imagining outwards and forwards, helps this as well.
 

Robopop

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Though I will add that it's probably the Ti which makes us prepare for things and work to improve upon them, which is kinda J. Possibly Ne, imagining outwards and forwards, helps this as well.

AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN, I WILL SAY THIS AGAIN, thinking before acting IS A INTROVERTED TRAIT, NOT JUDGER TRAIT, WANTING SUFFIECENT INFORMATION BEFORE MAKING A DECISION/ACTING CAN LOOK LIKE A PERCEIVER TRAIT, that's what makes INTPs look like indecisive little bastards, to the frustration of judgers(which is EXTREMELY P-ish). It can seem like I need one million years to make a decision, this is probably what confuses IPs and EPs, EPs can look more decisive than IPs but IPs can look more cautious than EPs.
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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Okay, but sometimes that can turn into effective and well thought out strategy plans that work. You can't say that isn't J.
 

Robopop

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Okay, but sometimes that can turn into effective and well thought out strategy plans that work. You can't say that isn't J.

I will say that INTPs can be very good strategists(with TiNe combo) and making the blueprints and designs for plans but it is not common for them to FOLLOW THROUGH on that strategy/plan, in fact, any intelligent person whether P or J, can make well thought out plans(after all, it takes intelligence to make good plans), it's the following through on the plan from start to finish that judgers(with Te or Fe) are more common for, INTPs(with Ne) can get side-tracked pretty quickly from the plan to follow some tanget or new possibility . Do you think all Ps besides INTPs are just a bunch of stupid, unintelligent, mindless animals, that's just bs(and maybe INTP elitistism). ENTPs are some scheming tro.... I mean motherfoos too:devil:. So no, making well though out plans and effective strategies is NOT J-ish, that's more to do with your intelligence. There is a BIG difference between thinking and doing too.
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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I guess you're right. I just see a lot of Ps around who just go and do things without thinking about them and not really devising strategies and stuff at all. I can usually point many flaws in their ideas and 'plans' with ease and they rarely have anything to say for it. Maybe just coincidence?
 

Robopop

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I guess you're right. I just see a lot of Ps around who just go and do things without thinking about them and not really devising strategies and stuff at all. I can usually point many flaws in their ideas and 'plans' with ease and they rarely have anything to say for it. Maybe just coincidence?

I will also say that there are many other contributing factors to why some of these people might be implusive, it could be the result of emotional unstability for example, and in some way's, many types can be implusive for different reasons(even Js), it's really not so simple once you think about it, I also have to make this distinction, just because someone chooses to be implusive(or just is) does not mean they are incapable of planning and thinking ahead.

I myself am a rather spontaneous(but not implusive) person, even if I plan something, I can change plans very quickly. I like just following a random idea or inspiration and seeing where it will lead, this is how I work, how think. Following some rigid structured plan from beginning to end is just not my thing at all. I just don't get the idea of INTPs as these people who make highly detailed plans, stick to them closely and quickly and decisively move to action, INTPs have the lazy "absent-minded professor" persona so it seems very strange to me that someone would consider them the most J-ish P.

That's what is going to separate INTPs from even some Ps, thinking and doing, Js are known to be doers, they want external results, INTPs love to think night and day but alot of Js don't care for that if they don't see any externally purposeful results, and I think it's known INTPs like to think, introspect, and internally analyze much more than carry out plans of action in the external world, this aspect will make INTPs look like one of the most P-ish Ps actually.
 

Xander

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In answer to the OP, no.

:D

We speak in definitions but we're usually prepared to alter those definitions upon analysing new evidence. We just sound like we're definite.
 

Robopop

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In answer to the OP, no.

:D

We speak in definitions but we're usually prepared to alter those definitions upon analysing new evidence. We just sound like we're definite.

Well to make a point for the OP, Ti itself can be kind of precise, like a mental knife that cuts to the essentials, the skeleton of an idea, this might look a little anal to some people(esp specifics on definitions and contexts), this is definitely the internal judgement aspect of xxTPs but like Xander said, we are still flexible with those definitions and axioms when analyzing new information, the rules Ti is built on can change pretty quickly when new info comes in(it can look like you are flip-floping on an issue or make you appear fickle to others).
 

Xander

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Well to make a point for the OP, Ti itself can be kind of precise, like a mental knife that cuts to the essentials, the skeleton of an idea, this might look a little anal to some people(esp specifics on definitions and contexts), this is definitely the internal judgement aspect of xxTPs but like Xander said, we are still flexible with those definitions and axioms when analyzing new information, the rules Ti is built on can change pretty quickly when new info comes in(it can look like you are flip-floping on an issue or make you appear fickle to others).
Hey quit redefining the definitions!!!

Bloomin Js....

:devil:
 

INTP

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Okay, but sometimes that can turn into effective and well thought out strategy plans that work. You can't say that isn't J.

all types are capable of planning, its just that J types have bigger urge for that..

also one thing you should figure out is the difference between J type and J function. if you say just something "like isnt planning like J?", yes its like a J, but J function, not J type, everyone has a J function..
 

Froody Blue Gem

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Ti is a judging function so I suppose IxTPs are up there. I would say that fi can be pretty judgery too so in my book, IxTP and IxFP at least tie. It's hard to shake fi-doms when it comes to values, and with INTPs/strong ti users when something contradicts logic they don't accept it. Standing firm and coming to the conclusion that their way is the only way and it doe not compute.

In some ways, I can relate to this, rejecting things that don't fit into my mental frame work or at least trying to wrap my head around it, looking at the other parts of a coin, and trying to find alternative ways to understand things that fit.
 

Maou

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Ti is a judging function so I suppose IxTPs are up there. I would say that fi can be pretty judgery too so in my book, IxTP and IxFP at least tie. It's hard to shake fi-doms when it comes to values, and with INTPs/strong ti users when something contradicts logic they don't accept it. Standing firm and coming to the conclusion that their way is the only way and it doe not compute.

In some ways, I can relate to this, rejecting things that don't fit into my mental frame work or at least trying to wrap my head around it, looking at the other parts of a coin, and trying to find alternative ways to understand things that fit.

Seeing how I was convinced I was INTJ for years, I can see INTP being pretty J, even more so if they value J-behavior like organization and punctuality.
 

Froody Blue Gem

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Seeing how I was convinced I was INTJ for years, I can see INTP being pretty J, even more so if they value J-behavior like organization and punctuality.

Yeah, that's true. When people keep the letters in mind and are unsure of the functions, I suppose ti doms can type as judgers as well as fi doms. People have different ways of typing.
 
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