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[INTP] Hardball - A strategic scenario

A. Zhang

New member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
90
MBTI Type
ENTJ
The situation:
I am competing against an INTP for the position of captain of the robotics team. I announced my intentions a few days ago, and this was his response:

I would welcome you to run against me as captain. I won't dissuade you away from it because I believe that everyone should have their chance to put their own ideas into action.

Just remember, I have more supporters than you and am better liked by Dave an Wherley. I am also a Senior. You also forget that I have done much more research and planning than you have. I have tons of ideas I haven't yet unveiled.

I'm only disappointed that I revealed many of my ideas, plans, and motivations to you in confidence that you would be on my side. It seems a little disingenuous on your part.

I interpreted that he was feeling threatened by his new opponent.

So here are the real stats:

Half the team supports him, half the team supports me, two are undecideds who could go either way. Mentors don't count.

In his favor:
  • The support of the seniors (1/2 the team)
  • A 4-page long list of ideas that everybody knows about

Against him:
  • He's unfocused, and the team knows this
  • A reputation to be hard-headed

In my favor:
  • The support of the juniors (another 1/2)
  • The team knows that I helped INTP on the idea list (more ideas and editing)
  • Great social skills, very outgoing (I have alot more friends compared to him, and in all classes, '11 to '14)
  • The team is disorganized (the elections should have happened last year, so I have weeks to plan and make a move)

Against me:
  • I have the same unrelenting reputation as him, but as an ENTJ, it's worse


My strategy:
I will convince my more tech-oriented friends to join the team, to shift the odds in my favor.
When election speeches come, I expect him to argue:
  1. his dedication
  2. his one year of experience over me
  3. the number of ideas he has

I will counterpoint that with this speech:
Good evening, team 116, my name is Ace Zhang, and I am running for the position of team captain.
In my experiences as a member of Epsilon Delta, I’ve learned that this team is very creative. For every problem, the members of the team will often produce at least 5 different solutions.
As team captain, I wish to provide balance to that creativity. I promise efficient execution of the best of those ideas. Under me, this team will become an effective team.
Vote for me, Ace Zhang.

As an ENTJ, I am a master of the art of execution.

But, to my fellow rationals and strategists, let's say you're me. It's your move, what would you do?
 

INTPness

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,157
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
The situation:
I am competing against an INTP for the position of captain of the robotics team. I announced my intentions a few days ago, and this was his response:



I interpreted that he was feeling threatened by his new opponent.

So here are the real stats:

Half the team supports him, half the team supports me, two are undecideds who could go either way. Mentors don't count.

In his favor:
  • The support of the seniors (1/2 the team)
  • A 4-page long list of ideas that everybody knows about

Against him:
  • He's unfocused, and the team knows this
  • A reputation to be hard-headed

In my favor:
  • The support of the juniors (another 1/2)
  • The team knows that I helped INTP on the idea list (more ideas and editing)
  • Great social skills, very outgoing (I have alot more friends compared to him, and in all classes, '11 to '14)
  • The team is disorganized (the elections should have happened last year, so I have weeks to plan and make a move)

Against me:
  • I have the same unrelenting reputation as him, but as an ENTJ, it's worse


My strategy:
I will convince my more tech-oriented friends to join the team, to shift the odds in my favor.
When election speeches come, I expect him to argue:
  1. his dedication
  2. his one year of experience over me
  3. the number of ideas he has

I will counterpoint that with this speech:


As an ENTJ, I am a master of the art of execution.

But, to my fellow rationals and strategists, let's say you're me. It's your move, what would you do?

I think your biggest edge is (a) your ability to be outgoing/extroverted, (b) your ability to be organized.

If this INTP is worth his salt, then you won't be *able* to predict what his speech will highlight. He also knows where his strengths are (relative to you) and he will likely have a few rabbits in his hat come speech time. What I'm saying is, if you want to win the election, don't underestimate him. While he may appear to be nonchalant, complacent, "let the chips fall where they may", he is certainly plotting and strategizing behind the scenes in a major way - if being elected truly matters to him. If it doesn't matter all that much, then he won't put up much effort.

While your strength is execution, his strength will be devising a strategy that gives him the best chance to beat you. That simple. And like a chameleon, he will be very adept at "slipping into" whatever uniform (or hat) his strategy requires him to wear. Once he devises his most sound strategy, he will *become* that person. And he will most likely be very good at "adjusting" on the fly. If he sees you going one direction and sees that it can hurt him, he'll adjust his strategy on a moment's notice. INTP's (if they care about the issue) love the chess match for the sake of the chess match.
 

INTPness

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,157
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
I will add that your best chance of beating an INTP is to out-hustle him. Execute things with high energy, in a hurry, talk to people, convince them to vote for you - high energy, fast-paced action. That can be an uncomfortable spot for INTP's. If he sees the support from his peers "shifting" to you and he sees you being relentless in your approach (i.e., you're going to eat, sleep, and breathe this election), it will put him in a corner and take him out of his element.

If you just let him go slow, take his time and think about things, then he'll have a very good chance of devising a great strategy. This is where he'll excel.

The one type of person I wouldn't feel comfortable "competing" against in an "election" type of scenario, would be the charismatic, smooth-talking, friendly, full of energy type of person. I know I might be able to *out think* that person, but I know that I can't keep that energy level and I know that he could very easily steal my votes when he befriends people.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
Be very concrete in your presentation. Details, plans, and visions. You want to give his friends an understanding that they would be doing the wrong thing by the organization by voting for him, which would then override their distaste for doing wrong by him.
 

freeeekyyy

Cheeseburgers
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
1,384
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The situation:
I am competing against an INTP for the position of captain of the robotics team. I announced my intentions a few days ago, and this was his response:



I interpreted that he was feeling threatened by his new opponent.

So here are the real stats:

Half the team supports him, half the team supports me, two are undecideds who could go either way. Mentors don't count.

In his favor:
  • The support of the seniors (1/2 the team)
  • A 4-page long list of ideas that everybody knows about

Against him:
  • He's unfocused, and the team knows this
  • A reputation to be hard-headed

In my favor:
  • The support of the juniors (another 1/2)
  • The team knows that I helped INTP on the idea list (more ideas and editing)
  • Great social skills, very outgoing (I have alot more friends compared to him, and in all classes, '11 to '14)
  • The team is disorganized (the elections should have happened last year, so I have weeks to plan and make a move)

Against me:
  • I have the same unrelenting reputation as him, but as an ENTJ, it's worse


My strategy:
I will convince my more tech-oriented friends to join the team, to shift the odds in my favor.
When election speeches come, I expect him to argue:
  1. his dedication
  2. his one year of experience over me
  3. the number of ideas he has

I will counterpoint that with this speech:


As an ENTJ, I am a master of the art of execution.

But, to my fellow rationals and strategists, let's say you're me. It's your move, what would you do?


He may be good at coming up with ideas and designing the robot, but I think any ENTJ is almost inherently a better manager than any other type in most situations. You can't force people to pick you, but that speech you have seems like a good starting point.
 

Idontcare

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
58
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
I think your biggest edge is (a) your ability to be outgoing/extroverted, (b) your ability to be organized.

If this INTP is worth his salt, then you won't be *able* to predict what his speech will highlight. He also knows where his strengths are (relative to you) and he will likely have a few rabbits in his hat come speech time. What I'm saying is, if you want to win the election, don't underestimate him. While he may appear to be nonchalant, complacent, "let the chips fall where they may", he is certainly plotting and strategizing behind the scenes in a major way - if being elected truly matters to him. If it doesn't matter all that much, then he won't put up much effort.

While your strength is execution, his strength will be devising a strategy that gives him the best chance to beat you. That simple. And like a chameleon, he will be very adept at "slipping into" whatever uniform (or hat) his strategy requires him to wear. Once he devises his most sound strategy, he will *become* that person. And he will most likely be very good at "adjusting" on the fly. If he sees you going one direction and sees that it can hurt him, he'll adjust his strategy on a moment's notice. INTP's (if they care about the issue) love the chess match for the sake of the chess match.

I will add that your best chance of beating an INTP is to out-hustle him. Execute things with high energy, in a hurry, talk to people, convince them to vote for you - high energy, fast-paced action. That can be an uncomfortable spot for INTP's. If he sees the support from his peers "shifting" to you and he sees you being relentless in your approach (i.e., you're going to eat, sleep, and breathe this election), it will put him in a corner and take him out of his element.

If you just let him go slow, take his time and think about things, then he'll have a very good chance of devising a great strategy. This is where he'll excel.

The one type of person I wouldn't feel comfortable "competing" against in an "election" type of scenario, would be the charismatic, smooth-talking, friendly, full of energy type of person. I know I might be able to *out think* that person, but I know that I can't keep that energy level and I know that he could very easily steal my votes when he befriends people.

Definitely do this.
 

A. Zhang

New member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
90
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Alright, thanks for the advice, I didn't realize that he may have that many trump cards up his sleeve.

I'll speed up the action and try to convince the undecideds to go in my direction.

EDIT: Also, the team won't be having the elections for more than a month. From what I'm getting, this is a disadvantage?
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
Doesn't this excerpt bother you?

I'm only disappointed that I revealed many of my ideas, plans, and motivations to you in confidence that you would be on my side. It seems a little disingenuous on your part.

As a senior, he's got fewer years left. Are you 100% certain you want this division? Is he really that incompetent as a team Captain?

Crazy advice coming from another ENTJ but sometimes, patience can bring better results, particularly working with someone who's shadow functions mirror your doms. That is unless he's completely inept.
 

A. Zhang

New member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
90
MBTI Type
ENTJ
As a senior, he's got fewer years left. Are you 100% certain you want this division? Is he really that incompetent as a team Captain?

Crazy advice coming from another ENTJ but sometimes, patience can bring better results, particularly working with someone who's shadow functions mirror your doms. That is unless he's completely inept.

So far, he's demonstrated his strong point: ideas.

However, our team has had some bad experiences with ideas in the past year: too many ideas that were never fully developed.

I'm convinced that I am better for the job, because I excel in execution of the idea.

However, that's my point of view. If you're sure that it will nosedive me into trouble, I'll heed your experience.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
So far, he's demonstrated his strong point: ideas.

However, our team has had some bad experiences with ideas in the past year: too many ideas that were never fully developed.

I'm convinced that I am better for the job, because I excel in execution of the idea.

However, that's my point of view. If you're sure that it will nosedive me into trouble, I'll heed your experience.
I'm just looking at this as a win-win. He's got experience and ideas. You've got motivation and execution. Is there any way to combine both sets of skills to create something bullet-proof where division isn't necessary? This way, you can get buy-in from everyone.

Just another way to look at accomplishing your goals. I can't say that you're going to nosedive for certain since I'm not involved and can't see the group dynamics. But divisionary tactics can create negative synergies which aren't always necessary.
 

A. Zhang

New member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
90
MBTI Type
ENTJ
He's got experience and ideas. You've got motivation and execution.

divisionary tactics can create negative synergies.

From a team perspective, you'd be right. We would make an excellent synergy.

I'm still convinced I'd make a better captain, but in the long run, the only thing that will make a difference is how the team will perform.

I'll have to consider that, alot.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
Consider the future. You take him down and you'll have to watch your back.

If you can in some way, get the two of you to mesh, wouldn't life be easier? This way, as a bullet-proof team, you watch each other's backs. When it comes time for the hand-off of captaincy, guess where it will naturally flow?

Anyways, I've already been too directive. So I'll shut up now. ;)
 

Beargryllz

New member
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Messages
2,719
MBTI Type
INTP
From a team perspective, you'd be right. We would make an excellent synergy.

I'm still convinced I'd make a better captain, but in the long run, the only thing that will make a difference is how the team will perform.

I'll have to consider that, alot.

I've been told that INTPs can go absolutely crazy defensive when they receive criticism, especially in relation to their passions and expertise. So, I guess, be careful... you're potentially undermining a person who could quickly turn uncooperative and resentful, and don't take the presumed synergy for granted at the very least.
 

INTPness

New member
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Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,157
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5w4
Alright, thanks for the advice, I didn't realize that he may have that many trump cards up his sleeve.

Well, he's an NT. He thinks things through thoroughly (Ti) and he anticipates the all the possible moves that you might possibly make (Ne) and accounts for that in his gameplan. It's very, very hard to surprise an INTP in a competition - because if he is serious about the competition, then he's already thought about all possible scenarios - what you might say, what you might do, what your advantages are, his advantages/weaknesses, etc, etc.

You just have to flat-out "beat him" at whatever game is being played. You won't really beat him by surprise tactics. You just have to be better than him on that day.


EDIT: Also, the team won't be having the elections for more than a month. From what I'm getting, this is a disadvantage?

Only because Ti involves taking your time and developing a sound strategy. If I have a month to prepare for something, I will get better and better and better (and more knowledgeable) with each day that passes. I will strive to understand the situation I am up against to the nth degree. I will think about it, mull over it, lay in bed and ponder over it, draw up different strategies on paper, talk to people and get feedback, etc. If I have like 4 days to do something, then I feel rushed and I don't feel confident I can do my best work. But, if I have several weeks (and it's something I'm serious about), you better believe that my presentation is going to be dyno-mite!
 

INTPness

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,157
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INTP
Enneagram
5w4
I've been told that INTPs can go absolutely crazy defensive when they receive criticism, especially in relation to their passions and expertise. So, I guess, be careful... you're potentially undermining a person who could quickly turn uncooperative and resentful, and don't take the presumed synergy for granted at the very least.

I think Metaphor has great ideas here. If the OP goes to the INTP and is direct with him, i.e., "Look, I think we really compliment each other a lot. You've got the ideas, I've got the execution skills. And some people support you and others support me. How can we help each other to make this work best for everyone involved? I don't care who gets the credit, I just want results. How can we make that happen?"

If you approach an INTP like that (if he's fairly mature), I'm thinking he's going to want to work with you. And make no mistake about it, a good ENTJ along with a good INTP would definitely make a great combination. Together they've got vision, creativity, great ideas, implementation/execution, organization, thinking things through, etc. All the bases are covered - uh, except "feely" stuff.
 

A. Zhang

New member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
90
MBTI Type
ENTJ
All the bases are covered - uh, except "feely" stuff.

LOL

We have one last person I forgot to mention, an INFx. She's going to be animation captain this year. I think she can cover that ;).
 
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