[ENTJ] ENTJ and steamrolling others?

[INTPness]

I actually hesitate to "boss" people around when I'm just hanging out, I just let people do whatever.

I really do not understand why others think ENTJs are bossy and steamroll others, I can't get it at all.

I am thinking that our assertiveness and ability to talk to others in a hardcore "direct" manner my possibly give people that impression.

I think Te hates it when it sees someone doing something "the wrong way". All the ESTJ's I've known are famous for picking apart everything that someone does. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? Why'd you do it that way, when you could have done it this way? ENTJ's, IME, are different, but I still think it irks them when they see inefficiencies or things that they would consider "unjust". I made a comment one time that was uncalled for and an ENTJ (who was not even my supervisor), pulled me into a private room and ripped into me - albeit in a very professional way. So, inefficiency of movement (or of time) and "injustice" are two instances that can cause the steamroller to come out.

Also, when someone has taken advantage of the ENTJ. I saw an ENTJ lose about $2,500 on a "handshake deal gone bad", and steam was coming out his nostrils. He was out for revenge!!!

When I spot Te in a person, I try to "let them lead" (because I know it comes natural to them) and I'm not one to really enjoy being in the spotlight anyways. But, it definitely can seem like steamrolling to some of the softer types (for lack of a better term) when the ENTJ is "giving orders". "You go do this! I need you to go over there and do that!"

90% of the time, I'll go along with it. If it starts to be too much, however, I bark back.

So, that's my question to you ENTJ's. How do you react when you are taking charge and trying to get something done (and maybe steamrolling people without realizing it) and someone stubborn (like me ) says to you, "Wait a second? Who died and made you God? Quit talking to me like I'm 4 years old and talk to me like an adult. I'm on your side and I'm here to help, but I'm not your slave. Capiche?"

Do you respect that? Or would you be more likely to think, "Whatever! Get out of my way then. I don't need you on my team."????

Cuz that's how it is for non-ENTJ's sometimes. I, for one, like your leadership 90% of the time. But, the other 10% of the time it's just WAY too much. WAY over the top. And as a fellow NT, those are the times that my Ti comes out and I basically say, "Back off!!!"

You guys are awesome. It's just that 10% of the time it's like, "What did this guy eat for breakfast?"

 

[ThatGirl]

I steamroll during the following scenarios:

• You have pissed me off in an unforgivable way. Luckily, this stops the moment I see fear in the eyes of the other. I think all it is meant to do is scare the shit out of someone, since I don't usually ACT until I am thinking clearer.
• You are ignoring something that is so "loud" it effects everyone. Like instances of denial. The more you ignore the situation the more I will press it. So you can deal with it, and move on. The more I listen to you speak from this made up place the more it grates on my nerves. Specially if others are supporting you. I just find it creates an extra dynamic as a factor that doesn't need to be there, and is somewhat centered around manipulating a situation to be catered by your desire.
• You have, for no significant reason, decided to stand up to me and tell me no. This usually happens when someone is trying to push their authority on someone or establish "boundaries". If the answer is no there better be a damned good reason explained to me.
• Anytime it comes down to either you or me. It's going to be me. Enter into competition with me, and I consider it fair for me to try to win over your efforts.

Other than that, I could care less what you do with your life or anything else, meaning I wont usually use that sort of effort.

 

[sleuthiness]

How would you compare your steamrolling abilities to your sensory counterparts (estjs)?

I find entjs far more forgiving of human failings, willing to listen to an extent-- whereas estjs are more likely to employ or threaten physical violence based on inconclusive evidence. As an infp, I've witnessed this first hand.

 

[ThatGirl]

How would you compare your steamrolling abilities to your sensory counterparts (estjs)?

I find entjs far more forgiving of human failings, willing to listen to an extent-- whereas estjs are more likely to employ or threaten physical violence based on inconclusive evidence. As an infp, I've witnessed this first hand.

The main difference I have seen between myself and ESTJs comes from their traditional motivations. I actually get along with ESTJs until we have to work closely together on something. They tend to want to micromanage something and always bring it back to group dynamics.

This is what is best for the family, this is what is best for the organization, this is what is traditionally expected. They have little patience for innovative thinking and find it immature to not just be dutiful in accepting your role.

Keep in mind, I usually just try something else to achieve a goal if someone presents opposition. I am more likely to bypass the person and not lose sight or the end result, by just going around them since distraction is a waste of time. It is very rare that a person becomes an obstacle. Usually when they do, it is for some bullshit reason, so my aggressiveness can be focused on them until they get out of the way.

It really is impersonal. I could care less what, why, or how you live your life. Whatever floats your boat. Until you enter into mine, and cause irrational opposition.

 

[rav3n]

So, that's my question to you ENTJ's. How do you react when you are taking charge and trying to get something done (and maybe steamrolling people without realizing it) and someone stubborn (like me ) says to you, "Wait a second? Who died and made you God? Quit talking to me like I'm 4 years old and talk to me like an adult. I'm on your side and I'm here to help, but I'm not your slave. Capiche?"
Do you respect that? Or would you be more likely to think, "Whatever! Get out of my way then. I don't need you on my team."????

Cuz that's how it is for non-ENTJ's sometimes. I, for one, like your leadership 90% of the time. But, the other 10% of the time it's just WAY too much. WAY over the top. And as a fellow NT, those are the times that my Ti comes out and I basically say, "Back off!!!"

My first question to you is why would you lead off like this? This will antagonise.

Rather ask the ENTJ if they trust and respect your abilities to do your part. If they acknowledge "yes", you can get them to back off without antagonising.

 

[Walkman]

I noticed a common theme among the posts of another thread that all ENTJs are bossy and tend to steamroll others.
ENTJ- Is this true in how you see yourself?

I see myself as pressuring others to accomplish and produce even if they do not want to. I sometimes feel like screaming "Don't just sit there. Do something!!! Even if it's wrong, just so something ...anything!!!"

It's really not fun to feel driven to "fix the world". But that is where I am at and I suspect that other ENTJ's are in the same place.

 

[INTPness]

My first question to you is why would you lead off like this? This will antagonise.

Rather ask the ENTJ if they trust and respect your abilities to do your part. If they acknowledge "yes", you can get them to back off without antagonising.

Well, I'm not wanting to antagonize. At that point (after I'm getting steamrolled and have been putting up with it for some time already), it's more that I feel I need to "fight fire with fire" in order to back them off and give me space to do my thing. It's a way of "not getting steamrolled" when the ENTJ is steamrolling everyone in a given situation. Almost as if to say, "you might be steamrolling them and getting away with it, but you won't get away with that on me. You'll have to show more respect than that.

But, you gave good advice. Seems like you guys just want people to be very direct with you. That's one area I've had trouble with ESTJ's - is when they are "directing", or steamrolling, it seems as if they are very angry and yelling and all over people's backs. And at that point, I feel like I have to really show some Ti aggression to back them off. I feel like I have to "match" their intensity, look them square in the eye, and basically say, "I'm not going to take your crap." That's the only thing that has worked for me with ESTJ's. Anything less than that, and they will continue to steamroll.

 

[rav3n]

Well, I'm not wanting to antagonize. At that point (after I'm getting steamrolled and have been putting up with it for some time already), it's more that I feel I need to "fight fire with fire" in order to back them off and give me space to do my thing. It's a way of "not getting steamrolled" when the ENTJ is steamrolling everyone in a given situation. Almost as if to say, "you might be steamrolling them and getting away with it, but you won't get away with that on me. You'll have to show more respect than that.

The easiest way to not get to the steamrolling part is to nip it as soon as it starts happening. Don't know about other ENTJs but I detest micromanaging people, believing everyone to be adult enough to do their part. In other words, I give people full latitude until they've proven themselves inept. Then I'm all over them like white on rice until I know for certain, they're willing to do their part.

INTPs aren't normally individuals who can't do their jobs so I can't see there being too much head butting between INTPs and ENTJs. Where it might be challenging, is if there's a project deadline to meet and the INTP has exceeded the time allotted due to need to think everything through. That's where an ENTJ might come at you like a steamroller.

But, you gave good advice. Seems like you guys just want people to be very direct with you. That's one area I've had trouble with ESTJ's - is when they are "directing", or steamrolling, it seems as if they are very angry and yelling and all over people's backs. And at that point, I feel like I have to really show some Ti aggression to back them off. I feel like I have to "match" their intensity, look them square in the eye, and basically say, "I'm not going to take your crap." That's the only thing that has worked for me with ESTJ's. Anything less than that, and they will continue to steamroll.

One of my nearest and dearest friends is an ESTJ. Stand up to them or they WILL steamroll you over since there's only one "right" way to do things. And yes, she tries to micromanage our entire group of friends who don't take her seriously. We all laugh at her and she seems to take it in stride. But sometimes, you have to shut her down hard. Once you TKO her, she shakes her head a few times when she regains consciousness and then, moves on.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

You'll only be steam-rolled if you allow yourself to be steam-rolled. Keep your head about you when you are around them and you can keep up and avoid it.

Ti is a strong 'defense' against being steam-rolled.

 

[INTPness]

Where it might be challenging, is if there's a project deadline to meet and the INTP has exceeded the time allotted due to need to think everything through.

Or the INTP just plain procrastinated.

One of my nearest and dearest friends is an ESTJ. Stand up to them or they WILL steamroll you over since there's only one "right" way to do things.....But sometimes, you have to shut her down hard.

Yes, you do have to shut them down hard for it to be effective.

Once you TKO her, she shakes her head a few times when she regains consciousness and then, moves on.

Not sure I've ever seen this. I've seen ESTJ's be TKO'd so to speak, but I wasn't really able to get a read on how it affected them. They (as well as ENTJ's) seem very "tough" and almost like you can't phase them because they will just dispose of you if they can. I saw a co-worker stand up to the ESTJ boss one time. He said to the ESTJ, "If you keep treating me this way, I'm going to walk off the job and never come back." The ESTJ said, "See ya later! And don't bother coming back tomorrow."

Like I said, I've had to really "go off" on ESTJ's a few times in my life (family, boss, friends) to the point to where I'm looking them right in the eye and basically saying, "You have a big problem and I'm done taking crap from you, so back off!" (and that's a nice way of putting it). One time when this happened, my ESTJ boss looked a little dazed and he said, "OK, everyone just go home for the day. Let's come back tomorrow and try it again." Everyone was like:

And the next day, he was much nicer and very "careful" with me, but it didn't take but a few days and he was back to steamrolling people again.

Ti is a strong 'defense' against being steam-rolled.

Very true.

 

[ThatGirl]

Am I the only one who doesn't think steam rolling is a product of bossiness?

Honestly, usually when I steam roll someone it has nothing to do with the person. It is more that they got caught in the line of fire between me and my goal. The more they stay there the more intense it is.

If you don't want to get caught in it you can align yourself with the goal so you are "running" with them. So, say it is a work scenario. You NEED space to work efficiently. Just provide them with a rundown. What you are working on and what it will take for you to get there.

"I am working on this which I think will really help to secure the *input end result*. I just need a little time to work out a few kinks, and will get back to you as soon as it is completed."

Then follow through. Eventually they will get a feel for how you work best.

If they are just on a power trip..... yeah, sucks to be you. Doesn't really pertain to type. That's more of an attitude issue.

 

[rav3n]

Or the INTP just plain procrastinated.

Not sure I've ever seen this. I've seen ESTJ's be TKO'd so to speak, but I wasn't really able to get a read on how it affected them. They (as well as ENTJ's) seem very "tough" and almost like you can't phase them because they will just dispose of you if they can. I saw a co-worker stand up to the ESTJ boss one time. He said to the ESTJ, "If you keep treating me this way, I'm going to walk off the job and never come back." The ESTJ said, "See ya later! And don't bother coming back tomorrow."

Nope. That was a no loss threat for the ESTJ as the employer, if the ESTJ was already frustrated with the employee.

Like I said, I've had to really "go off" on ESTJ's a few times in my life (family, boss, friends) to the point to where I'm looking them right in the eye and basically saying, "You have a big problem and I'm done taking crap from you, so back off!" (and that's a nice way of putting it). One time when this happened, my ESTJ boss looked a little dazed and he said, "OK, everyone just go home for the day. Let's come back tomorrow and try it again." Everyone was like:

And the next day, he was much nicer and very "careful" with me, but it didn't take but a few days and he was back to steamrolling people again.

I'm not certain you can peel an ESTJ back on a permanent basis. They'll keep trying just like what happened in your situation.

But after proverbially flattening my friend when she goes too far, I remind her of the instance in a teasing way and she'll laugh along and keep toeing the line. Subtlety does NOT work. Clear, hard boundaries.

 

[BlueGray]

You'll only be steam-rolled if you allow yourself to be steam-rolled. Keep your head about you when you are around them and you can keep up and avoid it.

Ti is a strong 'defense' against being steam-rolled.

Have to agree with this. I seem to get along with ENTJs very well and do better than most other people at not getting steamrolled. Resulting discussions/arguments have made some outside observers question my sanity but I enjoyed it.

 

[OrangeAppled]

How would you compare your steamrolling abilities to your sensory counterparts (estjs)?

I find entjs far more forgiving of human failings, willing to listen to an extent-- whereas estjs are more likely to employ or threaten physical violence based on inconclusive evidence. As an infp, I've witnessed this first hand.

This is my experience also....not the physical violence part, but just finding ENTJs less nitpicky, less insensitive, and less annoying in general than ESTJs. Now to be all diplomatic NF-ey, I don't find ALL ESTJs to be that way either.

 

[unicorn010]

It depends, lol...I wasn't really ever given the opportunity to steam roll anyone, because
I knew enough stronger personalities, but by the time I was in my late teens/early 20s, I
did learn how to start telling idiots to piss off.

 

[man]

i've never steamrolled in my life

id prefer harmony or im a dick if i really dont like the person, but generally i like nice

 

[Vie]

I steamroll when bitches and hos get in my way.

I cast them and their silly emotions aside if they are standing in the way of what I believe to be the right thing or answer with life and my goals. I take no consideration into how they are feeling and will then "steam roll" them. I am not doing this because I want to boss them around or hurt them, but because I feel as though it is the thing to do.

In social situations, I let people do what they want. I don't boss them around and I sort of stand back and watch them mess up. People sometimes have to learn for themselves. But if it is going to affect me or someone else, I step in and become what others consider "bossy".

I'm a firm believer in a leading by set rules when leading in a job. I listen to the consensus, find a few solutions, and proceed by asking the group what they want to do from that groups of solutions AND only those solutions. I find that allowing people to have free rein in some instances with no ideas wastes time and gets you no where. I won't steam roll someone into my belief or idea though, but instead follow through with what people on a whole agreed on. I can see how this would be considered manipulative though...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

ENTJ- Is this true in how you see yourself?

Not really.

It's (steam rolling that is) an option on my dial, but not my default setting if that makes any sense.

The ability is there, but the desire is lacking.

But I'm an 8w9 and not very representative of ENTJ's as a whole, so your mileage may vary.

 

[pragmatic_skeptic8]

Yes, this can happen, but can be unlearned through practice and supportive encouragement. If you've ever had the experience of having something that needs to be done, knowing exactly what has to be done to do it quickly and with minimal effort and maximum gain, be surrounded by people perfectly capable of doing it, but who can't organize themselves, and feeling an uncontrollable desire to share what is obvious to you about all this with everyone, then you have glimpsed ENTJ reality. It is entirely natural, on some level, to grok the situation and just start giving orders assuming everyone is on the same page and ready to go.

Problem is, that is, all too often, not the case, and preliminary preparation must be done first. It is behooves the ENTJ to learn how to recognize those situations and how to build the rapport with everyone around to create buy-in, so people naturally want to the task. And then, the real trick is often in discovering that the way that is best for a particular group or team is not necessarily the ENTJ's pre-conceived perfectly efficient plan. Oftentimes a team actually benefits in the long term by undergoing an inefficient, learning process whereby mistakes are made, but skills and awareness are increased, thus making greater human capital available. Everything is not always a production process. But when it is, and you need someone who gets it, find an ENTJ and do what they say.

 

[pragmatic_skeptic8]

Furthermore, I think wiser ENTJs assess their people really keenly, and recognize what they are and are not capable of, and deliberately plan to ask them always to do something that is just barely within reach of their capabilities, thus challenging them to stretch and grow in what they can do, but at the same time, not expecting them to do more then what they have shown they can do (and thus contingency planning for them to do only that much, even if also directing them to go further). Simultaneously it would be a mistake to assume people are worthless or incapable if they are not ready to perform at your desired level yet. That is not really the case. If you're actually running a team or an organization where you're invested in your people and their success, than you wouldn't write them off, or steamroll them. Instead, you might delegate something within their capability and finish the rest yourself (at your desired level of efficient performance).

Steamrolling is a sign of insecurity, and a lust for power as a function of that. It is also a sign of stress and impatience. Calm, secure, mature ENTJs do not steamroll, except when absolutely necessary (or the lose their cool).