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[INTP] The INTP and Feelings

Priam

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Dec 20, 2007
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This topic is making me feel like an INFP.

I just don't feel the way you seem to feel.
I am in touch with my emotions, I know what they are, I am not afraid of them or resentful of them, they are solid and consistent, and I don't have a problem showing them to people who are good in my book.
I'm interested in other peoples' feelings, and I empathize with them.
I understand the importance of trying to get a point across without causing offense.
Criticism hurts me, though I think it is necessary, and I do my best to tolerate it.
All kinds of stuff like that. It seems that so much of what people(including other INTPs) say about INTP feelings is different from mine.

All interesting in itself and I feel like that's what I've been fighting to say this whole time myself. Except for the criticism thing, which I didn't even consider at the time but would align with you on. I would say that, while diplomacy is a vital trait, if the choice came down to a vital truth delivered a "harsh" way or not said at all, I always try to choose truth and then mitigate the pain in follow-up. I really think that's all type is: a tendency in how to view and do things when life puts us in rather "either-or" situations, but mostly we all have the ability to choose on a gradient and balanced people try to stay away from utter extremes.
 

Athenian200

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This topic is making me feel like an INFP.

I just don't feel the way you seem to feel.
I am in touch with my emotions, I know what they are, I am not afraid of them or resentful of them, they are solid and consistent, and I don't have a problem showing them to people who are good in my book.
I'm interested in other peoples' feelings, and I empathize with them.
I understand the importance of trying to get a point across without causing offense.
Criticism hurts me, though I think it is necessary, and I do my best to tolerate it.
All kinds of stuff like that. It seems that so much of what people(including other INTPs) say about INTP feelings is different from mine.

I still think I'm an INTP because I have never, ever gotten INFP as a test result, and ultimately find the INTP descriptions closer to me than the rest, but I'm feeling like sort of a third path.

I may call myself INIP or INBP in accordance with Enneagram theory. :laugh:

Hmm.... I'm not sure I'd go all the way to INFP just yet. You may not be an INTP, but you could still be an ENTP or INTJ. Both of those types are often more in touch with their feelings than INTP. I've seen some of them who actually mistake themselves for F's. I know some ENTP's can go through an Introverted period, and I know that some INTJ's can be very sentimental inside, and aren't very J.

I'd suggest re-reading ENTP or INTJ descriptions to see if you get more resonance from those. It could simply be the difference between tertiary and inferior Feeling. And a tertiary function is usually a lot stronger than an inferior one... at least in my experience.

Also, it could be that you're reading something into the descriptions of INTP feeling that isn't really there... perhaps it seems colder or less human than it really is, somehow?
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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Okay so we have what three INTPs who so far seem different because we care and have sensitivity... I fail to see the problem.

Could it be we three are positive feedback people?
Could it be based on our enneagram (I know Magicky P is a 1, I'm a 9, similar in some respects)
Could it be that we were all raised in an F environment and hence have picked it up/ learned it?
 

wildcat

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Isn't that precisely the reason why the maul hits so hard? Too much thinking about division and not enough thinking about the integration.
Maybe.
In the post 67 I did not mean you personally.
Besides, I am also INTP.
 

Xander

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Maybe.
In the post 67 I did not mean you personally.
Besides, I am also INTP.
I rather thought your thinking poignant on that post. I was just pointing out that perhaps your thinking is stopping within the INTP paramemeters and so extended the thinking further.

I think I can say with high probability that I'm not sure if your origional thinking was more correct or if I've expanded it in the correct direction. As always I expect to find out when and if it's relevant ;)

Wait for it... wait for it..... OUCH! Oh yes it's a maul :D
 

wildcat

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I rather thought your thinking poignant on that post. I was just pointing out that perhaps your thinking is stopping within the INTP paramemeters and so extended the thinking further.

I think I can say with high probability that I'm not sure if your origional thinking was more correct or if I've expanded it in the correct direction. As always I expect to find out when and if it's relevant ;)

Wait for it... wait for it..... OUCH! Oh yes it's a maul :D
I am not wise.

How do I become wise?
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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I am not wise.

How do I become wise?
Congratulations, your race is lost. You had already won.

#1 "A wise man loses a piece of certainty everyday"
and
#2 something about the truly wise know they are not wise... or something like that.
 

wildcat

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Congratulations, your race is lost. You had already won.

#1 "A wise man loses a piece of certainty everyday"
and
#2 something about the truly wise know they are not wise... or something like that.
I have lost more than a piece.
Needless to say the police is worthless.
They do nothing to find my stolen goods.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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All interesting in itself and I feel like that's what I've been fighting to say this whole time myself. Except for the criticism thing, which I didn't even consider at the time but would align with you on. I would say that, while diplomacy is a vital trait, if the choice came down to a vital truth delivered a "harsh" way or not said at all, I always try to choose truth and then mitigate the pain in follow-up. I really think that's all type is: a tendency in how to view and do things when life puts us in rather "either-or" situations, but mostly we all have the ability to choose on a gradient and balanced people try to stay away from utter extremes.

I align with you and with Magic's list.

With the scenario you describe, I would probably have to say something... I would simply say it in the least volatile way possible. Because I know if I did not, just in order to avoid emotional hurt, I would not be able to live with myself.

(That has been the long lesson of my life: My attempts to sacrifice "truth" to keep the peace and not hurt feelings has just eaten away at me inside. I can't do it anymore.)

I trust my own capacity more today to mitigate pain, as you said, after it occurs... so I can afford to be more honest.

This all being said, the INTPs I have met in real life actually have not been much like the disaffected or cynical types I've often met on INTPc.

Literally every one of them has been kind, gentle, concerned about the feelings of others, whimsical, a bit self-depricating, and so forth.

This doesn't mean they were not subject to the pitfalls of the type -- they still tended to play devil's advocate or joke too much in situations where people's feelings could get hurt, for example -- and they were still sometimes very critical of social attitudes and mentalities especially if those things encroached upon their freedom, but they were all good-natured and did not have an intention of mistrust or spite for others.
 

faith

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Apr 25, 2007
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This all being said, the INTPs I have met in real life actually have not been much like the disaffected or cynical types I've often met on INTPc.

Literally every one of them has been kind, gentle, concerned about the feelings of others, whimsical, a bit self-depricating, and so forth.

Quoted in agreement.
 

Xander

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I have lost more than a piece.
Needless to say the police is worthless.
They do nothing to find my stolen goods.
:rofl1:
Lost more than a piece :D

Me thinks Confucius is confusing himself with a goldfish ;)
 

elfinchilde

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Jan 26, 2008
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type
I am not wise.

How do I become wise?

hardly. :) life is an ever ascending spiral though, as was noted by Hawthorne.

I have lost more than a piece.
Needless to say the police is worthless.
They do nothing to find my stolen goods.

shall we flip the perspective, meowie? you have lost nothing. it is just that there is more to gain. :)

and being different is simply this: one'd always see differently, feel differently. but it's different facets of the same crystal. no one facet is worth more, or less. It just is. Acceptance is key. (Ginsberg--from the poem Naomi, "allen, the key is in the sunlight by the window.")
 
R

RDF

Guest
Sorry I'm late to this thread. I was only able to sit down and read the second half today.

A couple points:

Seems to me that you guys are mostly talking about Fe, and not Fi. To me, there's a big difference. Thus, the chore of measuring an INTP's feelings is going to be complicated by whether one uses an Fe yardstick or an Fi yardstick.

Also you have to factor in "stressed-Fe" feelings, which are still Fe. In other words when an INTP gets caustic and irritable, as an observer I personally may still choose to register that as an official "Feeling" event.

So the end result is that I personally tend to see INTPs as fairly emotional creatures. The Fe comes across a bit foreign-smelling to me (as an Fi observer), but it makes it that much easier for me to sense it. And a lot of the emotion is appearing particularly when INTPs are stressed (since Fe is their Inferior), but that's still emotion to me.

To spell it out:

In real life, many INTPs (but not all) simply shut down and stare blankly when emotions come into play. But over at INTP-C where anonymity provides a buffer (and here at MBTI-C as well to some extent), there's no shutdown. Instead there are a half-dozen or more variations of Fe in play. INTPs who are in good touch with their Fe will exhibit "unstressed-Fe" in terms of varying degrees of good-natured humor, encouragement, understanding, empathy, warmth, and even saccharine sweetness (as registered by my Fi). Those who aren't much in touch with their Inferior function give off "stressed-Fe" in terms of varying degrees of mildly jibing humor, prickliness, ridicule, causticness, and even bullying (as registered by my Fi)

Since INTPs like to test each other a bit (Ti analysis & Ne playfulness), there's a lot of low-level conflict occurring over at INTP-C, which in turn generates a constant "odor" of "stressed-Fe" there. Hence I sometimes describe INTP-C as having a caustic atmosphere.

But I wouldn't describe INTP-C as emotion-free. Quite the opposite. All that caustic stressed-Fe (as well as a lesser amount of relaxed unstressed-Fe) over there at INTP-C makes me register INTP board members as rather histrionic and emotional.

If you want an example of a genuinely emotion-free atmosphere, INTJ-Central comes much closer to a clean, clear, Feeling-free atmosphere, based on the little bit of time that I've visited there. [Edit:] (The possible exception to the INTJ no-feeling rule would be that loopy brand of INTJ humor, which is probably a characteristic of those INTJs who have developed their Inferior Se.)
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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If you want an example of a genuinely emotion-free atmosphere, INTJ-Central comes much closer to a clean, clear, Feeling-free atmosphere, based on the little bit of time that I've visited there. [Edit:] (The possible exception to the INTJ no-feeling rule would be that loopy brand of INTJ humor, which is probably a characteristic of those INTJs who have developed their Inferior Se.)

Hmmm, that is very very interesting to me... When I am on INTJForums (I don't really go back much anymore because of what I am about to say), I usually feel like it is sort of cold and sterile, flavorless, and everything tastes the same. Not a lot of affection or affectation.

Put another way, it doesn't feel very friendly to me. It just felt very homogenous and very "bleached out" in terms of feeling.

Do you think this is the same thing as you are describing, except I am parsing it through Fe instead of Fi?
 
R

RDF

Guest
Hmmm, that is very very interesting to me... When I am on INTJForums (I don't really go back much anymore because of what I am about to say), I usually feel like it is sort of cold and sterile, flavorless, and everything tastes the same. Not a lot of affection or affectation.

Put another way, it doesn't feel very friendly to me. It just felt very homogenous and very "bleached out" in terms of feeling.

Do you think this is the same thing as you are describing, except I am parsing it through Fe instead of Fi?

Hmm. Good point. You describe the INTJForums more negatively than me, so yes it seems that your Fe is registering it a little differently.

I found it more of a neutral experience. I felt that INTJForums was lacking passion driving the members' convictions (compared to the way that Fi drives my own convictions). So I was having trouble getting the feel for why INTJs placed emphasis on certain things and not others. It made for a bit of vertigo at times.

But that kind of passion is perhaps a more subtle thing, so it just made the atmosphere feel a bit odd to me. But not necessarily negative. I had the feeling that if I stuck around long enough, I would get the rhythm eventually. I have been just too lazy to make the effort thus far.

FWIW.
 
R

RDF

Guest
I found it more of a neutral experience. I felt that INTJForums was lacking passion driving the members' convictions (compared to the way that Fi drives my own convictions). So I was having trouble getting the feel for why INTJs placed emphasis on certain things and not others. It made for a bit of vertigo at times.

One other thing:

INTJs express themselves via Auxiliary Te, and I have pretty good use of my Inferior Te. So that aspect of the message board was recognizable and comfortable for me. (I work around INTJs in the workplace.)

For INTPs, on the other hand, Te is a shadow function. So the Te mode of expression might conceivably give INTJForums a more foreign feel for INTPs.
 

Totenkindly

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For INTPs, on the other hand, Te is a shadow function. So the Te mode of expression might conceivably give INTJForums a more foreign feel for INTPs.

I know for me, Te is very cold and empty and sterile, and I get exhausted when I use it. It just holds little native interest for me.

I think this is why i found the ideas empty as well. They were all about someone's Te-styled ideas founded in their own arbitrarily chosen framework (Ni), so there wasn't much that was personal about it, and there wasn't much that seemed derived from reality about it, and I didn't sense any Fi-style values like you mention, it was all about Te and what could be worked out... and very rigidly so.

(Note: I mean that less as a criticism and more as simply a candid description of its impact on me personally.)
 
R

RDF

Guest
I know for me, Te is very cold and empty and sterile, and I get exhausted when I use it. It just holds little native interest for me.

I think this is why i found the ideas empty as well. They were all about someone's Te-styled ideas founded in their own arbitrarily chosen framework (Ni), so there wasn't much that was personal about it, and there wasn't much that seemed derived from reality about it, and I didn't sense any Fi-style values like you mention, it was all about Te and what could be worked out.

I've learned to get a lot of mileage out of Te. It functions in the real world and gives me all kinds of "crutches" and "gimmicks" and "tricks" for making life more efficient and easier and more productive, and "yardsticks" and "guidelines" and "frameworks" for measuring and prioritizing and arriving at equitable decisions quickly.

I love Te. I've come to have a new appreciation for ENTJs and ESTJs. I study them carefully when I run into them. They're my new heroes. :heart:
 

heart

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Te usually turns me into a self righteous, know it all prig whenever I let it get any kind of a lead on me. I try very hard to recognize when this happening, but of course it can be hard at times. I try to ensure that Te is a tool for me, not me a tool of Te! I have seen some fairly hard assed examples of Te run amok, I don't want to allow myself to become that. I think it is a real challenge for the older INFP to balance it all out.
 
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