[NT] Who's more close-minded: NTJs or NTPS?

[Zarathustra]

No offense, paisley, as I've loved your arguments up to this point, but what you wrote is something that no Fi-user could ever accept.

You either are or are not open-minded or close-minded (keeping the temporal issue out of mind).

Your perception by others, at least to an Fi-user, is irrelevant.

 

[1487610420]

Extraverted Intuitive The most open-minded of the types, they are fascinated by the new. Impulsive, adventurous, and creative, their minds entertain future plans and new ideas. They do not live in the immediate physical reality, but in a world of relationships and possibilities. They abhor routine.

in Fundamental Nature of the MBTI

You can close the thread now.

 

[Zarathustra]

You can close the thread now.

How very open-minded of you...

 

[Zarathustra]

And you should probably read this post.

 

[Zarathustra]

And this from personality page...

Others may falsely perceive the INTJ as being rigid and set in their ways. Nothing could be further from the truth, because the INTJ is committed to always finding the objective best strategy to implement their ideas. The INTJ is usually quite open to hearing an alternative way of doing something.

 

[Such Irony]

Here's my take on it:

I think INTJs tend to *appear* more close minded than INTPs because INTJs extravert thinking (which is a judging function), while INTPs extravert intuition (a perceiving function).

However, INTJs dominant function is introverted intuition, which is a perceiving function and INTPs dominant function is introverted thinking, a judging function.

INTJs: Appear more closed-minded on the outside but really quite flexible on the inside. Opposite for INTPs.

 

[Zarathustra]

Here's my take on it:

I think INTJs tend to *appear* more close minded than INTPs because INTJs extravert thinking (which is a judging function), while INTPs extravert intuition (a perceiving function).

However, INTJs dominant function is introverted intuition, which is a perceiving function and INTPs dominant function is introverted thinking, a judging function.

INTJs: Appear more closed-minded on the outside but really quite flexible on the inside. Opposite for INTPs.

Exactly.

That's actually, by my understanding, the exact difference between the definitions of "Judger" and "Perceiver" in MBTI and Socionics.

I think there is value to both ways, but, on the whole, I actually think Socionics might have the better methodology for labeling J/j and P/p.

 

[Robopop]

D eternal battle between the NTJs and NTPs CONTINUES!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MacGuffin]

D eternal battle between the NTJs and NTPs CONTINUES!!!!!!!!!!!!

29 to 7 at this point.

I think we can call it.

 

[Zarathustra]

29 to 7 at this point.

I think we can call it.

It's actually 30 to 6, due to a wrong vote. Damn butterfly ballots, man...

I would say the fact that the vast majority of voters have been NTPs skews the vote, but...

I think I'd rather just pull the Nazi card, and remind everybody that the Germans also elected Hitler to power...

 

[MacGuffin]

I would say the fact that the vast majority of voters have been NTPs skews the vote, but...

Throw up an STJ or STP poll and see the same thing.

 

[Zarathustra]

Throw up an STJ or STP poll and see the same thing.

Yeah, but how about INTJ vs. INTP?

 

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, but how about INTJ vs. INTP?

J is the close-minded function.

 

[CrystalViolet]

INTJ's. They make up their minds, and it's final. End of subject.(I'm not listening, are you still talking? kinda way) Never had quite the same experience with INTP's. They are open to new data, at least in my experience. No real experience with their extrovert counterparts.
Although ENTP's seem kinda hard to sway from a particular course of action, or thought pattern some times.

 

[Lark]

J is the close-minded function.

No, its the righteous mo-fo function. It is what makes us rulers.

 

[lastrailway]

NTJs.

Closed-mindness is built-in function of J.

 

[Paisley]

close-minded (from Dictionary.com)

adjective
not ready to receive to new ideas

@Zarathustra, but would an Fi user ever feel close-minded, and say that of themselves? Forget type, no PERSON would ever consider themselves closed to new information, but that they've heard the other 2+2=3 argument, and already considered it for what it is. Thus the reason I maintain closemindedness is a perception of others onto you, and purely subjective having nothing to do with any persons ACTUAL ability to be understanding and their ability to listen to, and interpret both sides of an argument. Even FireyPheonix is corroborating that sentiment, the inability to listen, the inability to ACT in an understanding way towards others; humility.

We live in an "either/or" world, and not an "and/but" world, as making an "and/but" statement is actually an "either/or" statement. And in a discussion on opposing fronts, the ability to recognize that is what is important. Tolerant of someone else's beliefs, simply means that you don't believe in your own.

 

[Zarathustra]

J is the close-minded function.

Not sure if you read these two posts earlier...

So then how about the fact that INTPs under the MBTI definition of "judging" are in fact Socionic's INTjs?

If you take both methodologies into account, the labeling would look something like this:

ENTJj
INTJp
INTPj
ENTPp

I think, based on this "combined" labeling system, that incorporates both Socionic's and MBTI's methodology for labeling "judging" and "perceiving", the more J/j one has, the more one would generally be considered "close-minded" by his or her peers.

That's not to say that perception about one's open-mindedness and close-mindedness can't be false, a la quote from personality page I included earlier:

Others may falsely perceive the INTJ as being rigid and set in their ways. Nothing could be further from the truth, because the INTJ is committed to always finding the objective best strategy to implement their ideas. The INTJ is usually quite open to hearing an alternative way of doing something.

But I think it will at least explain people's perceptions of a person.

Hence, your own vote (and almost everybody else's) in this thread.

An interesting question then is, between the two types who both have one J/j and one P/p in their combined labeling: who appears more close-minded? And who actually is more close-minded?

 

[Zarathustra]

NTJs.

Closed-mindness is built-in function of J.

Spoken like a true P...

 

[onemoretime]

No, its the righteous mo-fo function. It is what makes us rulers.

I thought it was the nun who smacked you so much with one that it integrated into your body structure.