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[INTP] Things that can hinder INTP's from being liked

INTPness

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Reason #1. Playing devil's advocate (or challenging everything that another person says):

Real conversation I had recently:
Guy: Hey, we got some rain lately!
INTP: Yep!
Guy: I won't have to water my lawn for a while now.
INTP: Oh?!
Guy: Well, I don't water it anyways because the water in this town is so expensive. If it doesn't rain, I just let my lawn die.
INTP: Water? Expensive? :huh:
Guy: Heck yes it's expensive.
INTP: How expensive could it really be?
Guy: Well, let's just say that 2 summers ago I didn't water my lawn very often. Then last summer I decided to water it to keep it green and I compared my bills from the previous summer and my bills were about $5 more per month! Just to water my lawn occasionally!
INTP: So 5 bucks is expensive?
Guy: Well, yeah! How would you like to find out that your hours at work are going to be cut and that you'd be making less money from now on?
INTP: Well, my hours just did get cut last week, but all I'm saying is that it would seem to me that if keeping your lawn green is something that's important to someone, then $5 per month would be well worth it.

At this point, the guy clearly seemed frustrated. I felt kind of bad as we parted ways, but I'm not sure what other approach I could have taken.

I just flat out disagree with him and I wasn't mean about it, I just stated my case. 5 bucks isn't worth moaning about. And if it is, then just don't water your lawn. End of story. I almost wanted to say, "Keep watering your lawn. I'll send you 5 bucks every month in the mail." Is the cynicism and truthfulness downright rude? Arghhhh!!! :steam:

What are some other reasons people may not take well to us?
 

INTP

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just tell him that if your lawn isnt worth 5$ per month, dont water it
 

Qre:us

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At this point, the guy clearly seemed frustrated. I felt kind of bad as we parted ways, but I'm not sure what other approach I could have taken.

Reason #1. Playing devil's advocate (or challenging everything that another person says):

^ Yeah, this. Challenge something if it makes sense to challenge....don't challenge it without understanding the position first, just for the sake of.

I think the guy might have been frustrated because it seems that you were being contrarian just for the sake of, only to, at the end, point out the same conclusion he told you at the beginning of the conversation. It shows that you weren't truly listening to him, and/or understanding what he was saying. And that you were just trying to be smart with him (for an ego boost?).

It's like you basically repeating his original sentiment, in a way that makes it seem as if you had this insight while he didn't. Which truly wasn't the case.

Case in point:
Guy: Well, I don't water it anyways because the water in this town is so expensive. If it doesn't rain, I just let my lawn die.

[....conversation continues]..........

INTP: Well, my hours just did get cut last week, but all I'm saying is that it would seem to me that if keeping your lawn green is something that's important to someone, then $5 per month would be well worth it.

He said that a while ago, that the lawn wasn't important to him, when he said that he'd rather let his lawn die than spend $5 on it [it's implied that he didn't truly care about his lawn - as he'd rather it be watered for FREE/rain]. :doh:

For him, expense trumps lawn-care. This would mean that the money is more important than the lawn. You didn't say anything new to him, that he didn't already state beforehand. It's stating the obvious and making it seem insightful.

For me, a more intriguing angle to the conversation would have been to pick up on the angle of "expense" for limited resources, like water, and taxation on such stuff to make people conscious about their use [thus limiting abuse] of such resources.

***

I have had a few conversations with some INTPs where similar things happen. Without truly understanding what I'm trying to say, they question/oppose, only to state the same conclusion that I started off with, in a manner that seems as if they're telling me something new/insightful or different than what I was originally saying - which isn't the case. They just, in a roundabout, time-consuming way, came back to my original point. Frustrating.
 

LunarMoon

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At this point, the guy clearly seemed frustrated. I felt kind of bad as we parted ways, but I'm not sure what other approach I could have taken.
He really didn't care about how much the water was actually worth. He was simply attempting to make small talk and was bringing up the water to startup the conversation. At this point you probably should have related a similar experience involving yourself, sympathized with his plight ("Wow, that's pretty awful!"), or inquired more deeply about his situation.
 

mrcockburn

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Yes, of course that's annoying. Do you have Asperger's or something?

Like the guy above me said, it's just small talk. No need to jump up and do a cost/benefit analysis at some random comment he makes.

If it was me, I'd probably laugh at his comment about just letting the lawn die and then change the topic to something a bit more interesting.

Mail him the $5 anyway, to apologize for forcing you both to obsess about the cost of watering lawns. He'd probably have preferred to just watch the grass grow die. *yawwwwn*
 

INTPness

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Ha ha. Interesting replies. The fact that I was a jerk in that conversation is sort of the whole point of the thread. I'm doing a little self-reflection here and trying to take note of the things that I (and INTP's) possibly do to alienate people.

I wasn't trying to prove my logical superiority or anything like that. I was acknowledging my frustration with his small talk and acknowledging that I handled it wrong and acknowledging that I was at a loss for other ways to handle it. That's why I felt bad after the conversation was over. At the time, I felt like I could have "sympathized" with the $5/month hit to his budget, but I think it would have been a fake sympathy.

I think it has to do with (a) being in my head so much (and when people interrupt with random conversations like this, I'm caught off guard - like, "huh? what? Wait, what are we talking about now?", and (b) impatience with things that don't seem to be "major, big picture issues".

And, no, I don't have aspergers. My buddy who I had that conversation with might have walked away thinking that I do, but I don't. :D

LunarMoon, thanks for the straightforward response. You make it sound simple and I should look at it from a much "simpler" point of view. Sometimes, I'm just thinking, "Are we really talking about this?" Something I need to work on I guess because I don't want to be an arrogant jerk.

Back to the point of this thread. Are there other things INTP's do (whether on purpose or unknowingly) that alienate us from people or cause them to not like us?
 

Tallulah

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Ha, FWIW, I totally agree with you. Complaining about an extra $5 a month is annoying. Why even talk about it?
 

mrcockburn

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Yes it would have been fake sympathy, but that's just what socializing entails sometimes. In fact, he'd probably expect you to mildly and briefly display "fake sympathy" and then drop the subject and move on.

Time for yooou to dust off your old Fe, good sir. :newwink:
 

Lady_X

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Reason #1. Playing devil's advocate (or challenging everything that another person says):

Real conversation I had recently:
Guy: Hey, we got some rain lately!
INTP: Yep!
Guy: I won't have to water my lawn for a while now.
INTP: Oh?!
Guy: Well, I don't water it anyways because the water in this town is so expensive. If it doesn't rain, I just let my lawn die.
INTP: Water? Expensive? :huh:
Guy: Heck yes it's expensive.
INTP: How expensive could it really be?
Guy: Well, let's just say that 2 summers ago I didn't water my lawn very often. Then last summer I decided to water it to keep it green and I compared my bills from the previous summer and my bills were about $5 more per month! Just to water my lawn occasionally!
INTP: So 5 bucks is expensive?
Guy: Well, yeah! How would you like to find out that your hours at work are going to be cut and that you'd be making less money from now on?
INTP: Well, my hours just did get cut last week, but all I'm saying is that it would seem to me that if keeping your lawn green is something that's important to someone, then $5 per month would be well worth it.

At this point, the guy clearly seemed frustrated. I felt kind of bad as we parted ways, but I'm not sure what other approach I could have taken.

I just flat out disagree with him and I wasn't mean about it, I just stated my case. 5 bucks isn't worth moaning about. And if it is, then just don't water your lawn. End of story. I almost wanted to say, "Keep watering your lawn. I'll send you 5 bucks every month in the mail." Is the cynicism and truthfulness downright rude? Arghhhh!!! :steam:

What are some other reasons people may not take well to us?
ha! i think that's hilarious...was going to say i agree with the intp guy but i guess that was you...yeah? anyway yeah...peoples logic is weird

like...my ex istj wanted to drive around with towels on the floor mats in the car...it drove me nuts it was obviously there to protect the mats but..the point is so that it won't be ugly yeah? and that looks good? or what? or is it just so that once you're done with it it still looks good? but it never looked good while you had it...it's like the plastic couches shit...so completely illogical....in my head at least.
 

Oeufa

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I wouldn't be too bothered about alienating someone who complains about $5 a month. Cheapskate. :tongue:
 

Lady_X

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He really didn't care about how much the water was actually worth. He was simply attempting to make small talk and was bringing up the water to startup the conversation. At this point you probably should have related a similar experience involving yourself, sympathized with his plight ("Wow, that's pretty awful!"), or inquired more deeply about his situation.

Yes, of course that's annoying. Do you have Asperger's or something?

Like the guy above me said, it's just small talk. No need to jump up and do a cost/benefit analysis at some random comment he makes.

If it was me, I'd probably laugh at his comment about just letting the lawn die and then change the topic to something a bit more interesting.

Mail him the $5 anyway, to apologize for forcing you both to obsess about the cost of watering lawns. He'd probably have preferred to just watch the grass grow die. *yawwwwn*

oh that's funny...hmm...i couldn't have feigned empathy about something so petty either..

Sometimes, I'm just thinking, "Are we really talking about this?" Something I need to work on I guess because I don't want to be an arrogant jerk.

oh and this...me too!! all the time...i'm like really? are we talking about gas prices and do you really feel that passionately about it? wow...
 

INTPness

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ha! i think that's hilarious...was going to say i agree with the intp guy but i guess that was you...yeah? anyway yeah...peoples logic is weird

like...my ex istj wanted to drive around with towels on the floor mats in the car...it drove me nuts it was obviously there to protect the mats but..the point is so that it won't be ugly yeah? and that looks good? or what? or is it just so that once you're done with it it still looks good? but it never looked good while you had it...it's like the plastic couches shit...so completely illogical....in my head at least.

Ha ha. That's so ISTJ! Not to roast the ISTJ's (gotta love 'em), but it reminds me of one ISTJ friend of mine who keeps a logbook and calculator under the seat in his car. Each time he gets gas, he takes the logbook out, jots down the current mileage, how many gallons he put in the tank, and then calculates to make sure that he is still getting the same miles per gallon that he was last month.

Another ISTJ I work with is sometimes required to drive the company vehicle. He has a single band-aid paper clipped to the dash and he wrote in black marker on the band-aid wrapper: "Replace if you use."

It's so practical, that it's hard to criticize. I just know that I'd feel like I was going nuts if I continually concentrated on these types of things.
 

Neobick

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Haha conversations like this is my life.

Today I nearly felt guilty when my mom told me life is what you make it and I said, tell that to a starving child.

Sometimes I wish I was more polite and societial adjusted.
 

lets eat pie

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Another ISTJ I work with is sometimes required to drive the company vehicle. He has a single band-aid paper clipped to the dash and he wrote in black marker on the band-aid wrapper: "Replace if you use."

It's so practical, that it's hard to criticize. I just know that I'd feel like I was going nuts if I continually concentrated on these types of things.

LOL

Yes it would have been fake sympathy, but that's just what socializing entails sometimes. In fact, he'd probably expect you to mildly and briefly display "fake sympathy" and then drop the subject and move on.

Time for yooou to dust off your old Fe, good sir. :newwink:

Bleh, even if I know false sympathy is sometimes the better option during small talk, it always feels as if the other person could tell instantly that I am being fakey.
 

Fluffywolf

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This is how the conversation probably would've went if I was the INTP.

Guy: Hey, we got some rain lately!
INTP: Aye.
Guy: I won't have to water my lawn for a while now.
INTP: Yeah, because turning on the water tap would be so exhausting.
Guy: ... And expensive!
INTP: Like hookers. Expensive, exhausting and to top it off, wet as well. But we don't let that stop us.
Guy: You see hookers?
INTP: Hookers see me.
Guy: What?
INTP: Escort.
Guy: k...
*pause*
INTP: Was there something you wanted to talk about?
Guy: Nah...


People don't downright dislike me, but they hate the fact that I dumb down any form of smalltalk right from the get go. I don't do smalltalk with friends and people close to me. I keep that for customers and such.
 

ZPowers

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I also despise small talk, though that small talk was especially bad. His lawn and his five dollars is both uninteresting and irrelevant to your life in any conceivable way. Once or twice, when particularly uninterested or not in the mood, I've flat-out asked people why they are telling me about their banal stories. I don't tell you about the pasta I ate last night or cleaning out my kitchen, because it is not a worthwhile thing to talk about and you do not care and will instantly forget about it (because what else would you do with that information?). It is a subject no one would gain anything from broaching. Also in that category: Your lawn.
 
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