• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] A Philosopher's Declaration of Independence

Provoker

Permabanned
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
252
MBTI Type
INTJ
In what follows, a philosopher's Declaration of Independence is propounded. It is a philosophical method put in a sequence of principles. Anyone who wishes to subject these principles to the fiercest struggle for survival through the method of doubt is encouraged, for this shall conduce to rational discussion. However, if your counterarguments are to have any plausibility they must be accompanied with reasonings and data. Discuss.

(1) All philosophers are human, but not all humans are philosophers. For philosophy requires a certain mastery of reason, independence of thought, and the ability to string together thousands of arguments without getting into contradictions, which is by definition lacking or absent in non-philosophers.

(2) Since all philosophers have a philosophical and human dimension, each competes for mental resources to exist. Inevitably, the existence of the two are not 'compossible' at the same time, since to philosophize is to forego the moment, while indulging the human side requires foregoing contemplation. Hence, also, it follows that the logico-philosopher must necessarily have the winning record of the two.

(3) In the struggle for the existence of philosophical possibles, the disposition of the independent philosopher must be tantamount to a sort of hyperanalytical mode, where he may find himself stuck in fits of abstraction such that he no longer sees or hears things. Instead, resources are mobilized from the senses to the intellect. Should one call the philosopher's name, one may get no response. For the purest form of philosophical independence is the condition under which one is invariant with respect to all external stimulus.

(4) Now, should it happen that someone is able to break the sound barrier and get the philosopher to ground out, likely due to his own lack of concentration, he shall resume to his human state and unleash his sensing and intuiting tentacles so as to enable new possibilities to fly at him at fast and furious speeds, which will supply the material for future thought.

(5) These future possibles must be contemplated by pure reason rather than emotion. For Einstein has discerningly argued elsewhere that time is relative, which means that time is not objectively real. Hence, also, it follows that all emotion with regard to future or past events are contrary to reason. Therefore, if the human has an interest in expressing emotion for some past or future possibility, the philosopher has an interest in being dispassionate on them; for, were the philosopher that is rational by definition to become emotional for some past or future event, that would entail that he is being rational and irrational at the same time, which is a contradiction. However, since in (1) a philosopher is defined as one that does not get in contradictions, it follows that were this to happen the one in question cannot be properly called a philosopher.

(6) From this follows two propositions: (a) The cardinal virtue of a philosopher is consistency and hence also his chief tool is logic. Logic, indeed, is to philosopher as telescope is to astronomer--namely, an instrument of discovery. (b) The philosopher will strive to discover and invent as opposed to immitate. For mindlessly copying the items circulating in hearsay is not only dubious in principle, but should one demand that the item of thought be backed up with reason and evidence, one shall lack the intellectual reserves to back up the currency of hearsay because one did not test it by independent thinking and rational criticism.
...
(C) If these conditions are met, then the philosopher will reach the highest level attainable of independence. From independence follows the mental space for discovering new laws, patterns, cosmological and ontological systems designs and so forth, which can restore a dignity to philosophy that the post-modernist tea party has attempted to bastardize.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
So, can a feeler in the typological/MBTI sense be a philosopher?

Or, do all your tenets above preclude one who reasons from/with ethical foundations from ever being considered or qualified to be a true philosopher?
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
Philosophy that comes without a full integration of the human experience is nothing more than mere fancy. Like it or not, even the most "objective" of human beings perceives things in a biased and inaccurate manner. It's how we evolved.
 

human101

Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
510
MBTI Type
NiTe
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sx
Philosophy that comes without a full integration of the human experience is nothing more than mere fancy. Like it or not, even the most "objective" of human beings perceives things in a biased and inaccurate manner. It's how we evolved.

this basically sums up what david hume thought about other philosophers mainly the rationalist
 

ragashree

Reason vs Being
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
1,770
MBTI Type
Mine
Enneagram
1w9
So, can a feeler in the typological/MBTI sense be a philosopher?

Or, do all your tenets above preclude one who reasons from/with ethical foundations from ever being considered or qualified to be a true philosopher?

He seems to be more arguing FOR objectivity than against ethics; therefore the correct question is probably, "Can an F-type be truly objective?" To which the answer is in my humble opinion, "Yes, if they so choose.".
 

Kobe

New member
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
28
MBTI Type
INFP
He seems to be more arguing FOR objectivity than against ethics; therefore the correct question is probably, "Can an F-type be truly objective?" To which the answer is in my humble opinion, "Yes, if they so choose.".

I agree, MBTI shows preferences of the character and not abilities.
So an F-type can easily be as objective as a T-type if he chooses to.
 

Blank

.
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,201
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Meh, I think the whole look of a "proper" philosopher is bullshit, since it's very, very human to be mentally understanding of one object or event, and yet being emotionally repulsed by it at the same time.

For example: I think survival of the fittest is the way of nature, and thus man should emulate itself in nature's image (as a byproduct of nature,) however, I am also disgusted at such a cutthroat, dog-eat-dog way of life.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
(1) All philosophers are human, but not all humans are philosophers.

I'm inclined to disagree here at the very beginning, because you start yourself out with a contradiction. Plus many animals think with the pack mentality, thus concretely destroying your idea, or the definition of a philosopher. Only those able to think independently are able to call themselves philosophers.
 

coconut

New member
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
136
MBTI Type
INTJ
(6) From this follows two propositions: (a) The cardinal virtue of a philosopher is consistency and hence also his chief tool is logic. Logic, indeed, is to philosopher as telescope is to astronomer--namely, an instrument of discovery.

Where does Kant's Critique of Pure Reason fit in this declaration?
 

tcda

psicobolche
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
1,292
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5
I'm inclined to disagree here at the very beginning, because you start yourself out with a contradiction. Plus many animals think with the pack mentality, thus concretely destroying your idea, or the definition of a philosopher. Only those able to think independently are able to call themselves philosophers.

There is no such thing as purely independent thought - neither would such a thing be desirable. No philosopher in hsitory was a purely "independent" thinker.

Neither is there such a thing as purely "pack mentality" thought (in people at least).

A person's consciousness is the result of the interaction between themselves, other people and the material world.
 

tcda

psicobolche
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
1,292
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5
Meh, I think the whole look of a "proper" philosopher is bullshit, since it's very, very human to be mentally understanding of one object or event, and yet being emotionally repulsed by it at the same time.

For example: I think survival of the fittest is the way of nature, and thus man should emulate itself in nature's image (as a byproduct of nature,) however, I am also disgusted at such a cutthroat, dog-eat-dog way of life.

My answer to this is that it's not necessarry for humans to live like this, because we have evolved to become conscious beings and therefore can overcome animal savagery (which is based on scarcity of the essentials for life, something which existing technology is capable of eradicating, and which only exists in human society because of social conditions, not absolute scarcity).
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
There is no such thing as purely independent thought - neither would such a thing be desirable. No philosopher in hsitory was a purely "independent" thinker.

Neither is there such a thing as purely "pack mentality" thought (in people at least).

A person's consciousness is the result of the interaction between themselves, other people and the material world.

Then by Provokers definition no one can be a philosopher. I suppose that is a possibility.
 

Provoker

Permabanned
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
252
MBTI Type
INTJ
I'm inclined to disagree here at the very beginning, because you start yourself out with a contradiction.

The opening statement is straightforward and noncontradictory. Where is the contradiction?

Plus many animals think with the pack mentality, thus concretely destroying your idea, or the definition of a philosopher.

It is not clear that the behavior of "many animals" destroys my conception of a philosopher. Please speak still more clearly and demonstrate why this is necessarily relevant.

Only those able to think independently are able to call themselves philosophers.

How could it be otherwise? At any rate, independent thought is necessary but it alone is not sufficient. A poet may be able to think independently but lack the rigor, logic, consistency and theoretical genius that would be required for expounding a philosophy.
 

Blank

.
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,201
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
My answer to this is that it's not necessarry for humans to live like this, because we have evolved to become conscious beings and therefore can overcome animal savagery (which is based on scarcity of the essentials for life, something which existing technology is capable of eradicating, and which only exists in human society because of social conditions, not absolute scarcity).

"Animal savagery?" Humans are animals, and quite savage ones at that.
 

tcda

psicobolche
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
1,292
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5
"Animal savagery?" Humans are animals, and quite savage ones at that.

Humans are capable of savagery and civilization, becuase we have evolved conscious thought and therefore aren't slaves to our instincts or to the natural environment (rather we have become masters of the natural environment).

Animals aren't capable of civilization, and are slaves to nature.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
The opening statement is straightforward and noncontradictory. Where is the contradiction?



It is not clear that the behavior of "many animals" destroys my conception of a philosopher. Please speak still more clearly and demonstrate why this is necessarily relevant.



How could it be otherwise? At any rate, independent thought is necessary but it alone is not sufficient. A poet may be able to think independently but lack the rigor, logic, consistency and theoretical genius that would be required for expounding a philosophy.

I wasn't thinking when I wrote this... sorry 'bout that.
 

murkrow

Branded with Satan
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
1,635
MBTI Type
INTJ
So, can a feeler in the typological/MBTI sense be a philosopher?

Or, do all your tenets above preclude one who reasons from/with ethical foundations from ever being considered or qualified to be a true philosopher?

Feelers reason from ethical foundations?

Please explain!
 
Top