• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ENTP] Are ENTPs the ultimate idealists?

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
And yet, I'm often the first to volunteer to help people in distress. I don't know why too, I guess it's a kind of instinct. I find charity business to be insincere, yet when people in real trouble ask me to help them, and even if I find their cause to be desperate and impossible to win, I'm always here.

So, I'm wondering the possibility that in fact, I could have extremely high ethical values, almost impossible to achieve for normal men, and that I'm considering most of my fellow-men not to be worth them. I despise people, yet I love mankind, even if it looks crass ignorant and totally irresponsible.

Isn't it a paradoxical, bittersweet feeling? I feel optimistic and pessimistic at the same time. Charming and nice on the outside, yet completely disillusioned in the inside.

Sometimes, it looks like hopeless idealism. Just like if my ethos -whatever it would be- would be far more demanding than the majority of people who describe themselves as Feelers...

So, what do you think?
I think that's your Tertiary Fe coming out. Empathy, Fe caretaking instinct. It gives you idealistic tendencies of course, but it doesn't make ENTPs the ultimate idealists, unless their Fe is strong enough to appear dominant or close to it (such as was the case with the Tenth Doctor). Fe-dom types (ENFJs especially) are much more idealistic.
 

Xellotath

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
176
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Pfft, predictable.

Out of all of the NTs to get an omg-i-have-feelings episode,

figures only the ENTP ego would say omg-we-are-the-ultimate-idealists!

...

I'm kidding, I <3 u.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
Pfft, predictable.

Out of all of the NTs to get an omg-i-have-feelings episode,

figures only the ENTP ego would say omg-we-are-the-ultimate-idealists!

...

I'm kidding, I <3 u.

Check the definition of idealism.
4. Philosophy The theory that the object of external perception, in itself or as perceived, consists of ideas.

Ideas, not how you feel about it and how it means that it must be the ultimate truth in the universe.
Just saying, you know.

Idealism actually fits Ti much better than Fi.


I'm kidding, I <3 u.
okey, didn't see that.
But I still stand behind what I said about idealism and Ti.
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Fe-tertiary is funny like that. INTJs are the ones most likely to go all cheap romance novel-like on their girls. :newwink:
 

proximo

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
584
I agree with folk saying it's tertiary Fe gaining a foothold... once Ne and Ti have had time to embed themselves enough to feel secure, so that they don't feel threatened by the use of other functions, Fe will start to creep out...

In my case, I gave my Fe a "jump start" by deliberately and consciously augmenting it in my late 20's... the result was disastrous. Yes, I cared about people more, and I cared about values and morals and stuff more... but... the down side was that it developed sort of independently of Ne and Ti, leaving me with a constant feeling of being torn apart. I could never see what the right choice was for quite some time... strong instructions from Fe would have Ti screaming and covering its ears, and vice versa. The resultant behaviour was not pretty.

Taken a few years, but they've integrated more now... like Ti and Fe are two duelling cowboys, circling each other and whoever draws first gets to make the decision. Sometimes they come to the same conclusion, and that's just magical :)
 

Blackmail!

Gotta catch you all!
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
3,020
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Blackmail!: *jerk jerk jerk*
Mo(i)st ENTPs: "mmm spread your ethical ego-juices all over me. Make a mess of mess, baby" *squeezes tits together*
Blackmail!: "iiiihhhh I'm cumming, oh yeah, ihhhhh, ah ah ah.. Did I mention I went to one of the best and most uptight high school in all of France? I'm getting myself hard again now. Tell me I'm a special boy, mommy."

It feels good, you have no idea how much. :hug:
Believe me, you should try sometimes!
All you need is love, and I love you!
 

Blackmail!

Gotta catch you all!
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
3,020
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
I relate to what you say here, but does this apply to every space of life? Take mathematics for example: I cannot apply what you've said about your optimism and disillusionment when dealing strictly with numbers or variables– or even in scientific thinking; however, the above fits seamlessly to how I react to people. I think the problem here has to do more with how illogical we see people as, coupled with the realization that we ourselves are people, leading us to the conclusion that we are illogical. Yikes!

Absolutely.

A lots of NTs see themselves as beacons of rationality in an insane world. I don't subscribe to this "heroic" and rather misanthropic posture. We're no better than the rest of mankind, we're part of it and play the same global game.

Somehow, it makes me remember what Eck just said about his Ego, that "his thought processes excludes (him) from the picture when it comes to analysis".
 

ArchitectofFate

New member
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
77
MBTI Type
ENTP
OMG I can totally relate to this. To me, I hate people as individuals, but love humanity as a whole...
 

sculpting

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
In my case, I gave my Fe a "jump start" by deliberately and consciously augmenting it in my late 20's... the result was disastrous. Yes, I cared about people more, and I cared about values and morals and stuff more... but... the down side was that it developed sort of independently of Ne and Ti, leaving me with a constant feeling of being torn apart. I could never see what the right choice was for quite some time... strong instructions from Fe would have Ti screaming and covering its ears, and vice versa. The resultant behaviour was not pretty.

My two close entp friends note this internal conflict very much-they use the term mask to describe it. I started this thread below based on what one of them said.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nt-rationale/18622-entps-wearing-masks.html

I actually grew in Te very early and built it as an Fi value-logic is best. This actually works quite well...until in a pure emotional situation that Te does not work on. Then a childlike, amorphous Fi comes to the surface and gets to make all the decisions-I get stuck in the loop you describe above...logically I know the choice is irrational but it is driven by Fi-which I must follow. It can be like having your brain shredded.

But Jung said this is how we grow-by facing that internal conflict, we forge the two functions into something more, and we evolve. but it feels like doing math with handfuls of pudding.

but on topic. My older entps give their "Ti ideas" as an offering, a way of caring, for those in the social group they are a part of. It is their contribution.
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I can see ENTP as the ultimate idealist because they don't seem to learn from the past, so they think everything is possible, like "anything could happen!" as opposed to "99.9 percent of the time, when you do this, that is the outcome, therefore I won't do this." It's like ENTP sees itself outside of the system completely, like it is some anomally that doesn't follow the rules of the rest of the known universe.

What's cool is when they're right. :) That's the part that hooks you.
 

Valiant

Courage is immortality
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Messages
3,895
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I died a little inside when I saw this thread :laugh:
 

Shimmy

New member
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,867
MBTI Type
SEXY
I died a little inside when I saw this thread :laugh:

I would like you to know that, being an ENTP myself, I do not associate with this level of ego. I'm the ultimate idealist, all the other idealists are just imitating.
 

tinkerbell

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
3,487
MBTI Type
ENTP
""cold, unfeeling cynical bastards""

I'm none of those things, I'm not cold, unfeeling or cynical....

I am however hard core T, not because I'm unfeeling more rational. Its unlikely to be see as cold because I'm a warm person on the whole. I can be hard faced at times, but most of all I make decisions using thought not feeling.

I would say I am an idealist/optimist by nature.

I don't think NT requires you to be unfeeling or devoid of feeling, just make decisions from a T perspective not an F. Sometimes it goes against the human grain and appears hard, but if it is done for the good of whatever it is then ultimately it is helpful.
 

proximo

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
584
But Jung said this is how we grow-by facing that internal conflict, we forge the two functions into something more, and we evolve. but it feels like doing math with handfuls of pudding.

Yeah, totally, those things have to be faced. I just meant that, from my experience, if I could do it again, I wouldn't deliberately do anything to force the process. I think it's best to let it be a natural by-product of age and the passage of time, learning from the lessons of life. What I did was done quite deliberately and so I think it just sort of produced something in me that my experience of life etc wasn't yet equipped to handle. Does that make sense?

but on topic. My older entps give their "Ti ideas" as an offering, a way of caring, for those in the social group they are a part of. It is their contribution.

Yeah that's the spirit in which I threw out a few ideas here... I was quite taken aback by the way some people have misread things as egotism that were really, just throwing around, batting around a concept, taking it into a vacuum and running with it to see where it takes me.
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
I can see ENTP as the ultimate idealist because they don't seem to learn from the past, so they think everything is possible, like "anything could happen!" as opposed to "99.9 percent of the time, when you do this, that is the outcome, therefore I won't do this." It's like ENTP sees itself outside of the system completely, like it is some anomally that doesn't follow the rules of the rest of the known universe.

What's cool is when they're right. :) That's the part that hooks you.

I have to believe that the rules don't apply to me. Because the iron laws of existence feel unbearably oppressive. I want to create something new and different. In my heart I feel like I am going to live forever and that nothing can erase me. But, my head knows otherwise.

"I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create." - William Blake

astrology-graphic-low-res.jpg
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I like it when you pull the rabbit out of the hat.
 
Top