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[NT] NT's analyze these "laws"

slowriot

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So the danes have been accused of exhibiting these laws in our daily life:

1. You shall not think that you are special
2. You shall not think that you are of the same standing as us
3. You shall not think that you are wiser than us
4. Don't fancy yourself as being better than us
5. You shall not think that you know more than us
6. You shall not think that you are more (important) than us
7. You shall not think that you are good at anything
8. You shall not laugh at us
9. You shall not think that anyone cares about you
10. You shall not think that you can teach us anything

Tell me what you think of these and give me your oppinion on these "laws". Would it work in your country? Would you find them useful to exhibit? Could there come anything positive or negative out of applying those laws in everyday life? Which ones do you seem to fit with the NT approach? Which laws do you find useful and what do you not? and so on....

I am predispositioned when it comes to these laws so Im biased so I will just give input and questions not any clear oppinion at first.
 

INTP

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i stopped reading after the first one :D
 

Fluffywolf

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Who is us?

Also, conservative bullcrap. I wish people that come up with crap like that remain consciously unchanging for all eternity.

Funny fact, these 'laws' have always been in invisibly in practice in all societies to some extent, but ignorance is bliss.
 

Weber

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Good ol' Jantelov. Keeping the Scandinavian streets clean, the taxes high and the mentality obnoxiously politically correct.
 

ragashree

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1. You shall not think that you are special
2. You shall not think that you are of the same standing as us
3. You shall not think that you are wiser than us
4. Don't fancy yourself as being better than us
5. You shall not think that you know more than us
6. You shall not think that you are more (important) than us
7. You shall not think that you are good at anything
8. You shall not laugh at us
9. You shall not think that anyone cares about you
10. You shall not think that you can teach us anything

An interesting thought occured to me here, I'll try to deconstruct a little with this in mind:

2 contradicts most of the others, and points to the special pleading fallacy operating here on behalf of the speaker and those they identify with, to justify their attitude. I suspect this underlying attitude is what these "laws", codes of conduct, whatever you wish to callt them, are really motivated by:

The implicit position is essentially "You're not as good as us until you accept that you are an unimportant individual." This implies that the person who accepts their own unimportance, gains (moral) superiority over others who have not accepted it, and forms an elite with the right to criticise them. :whistling:

This exceptionalism can't be justified by anything but circular logic: it must always fall back upon the superiority of the premise that all others must be equal to any alternative beliefs.

"All are equal, but those who believe in the doctrine of equality are more equal than others."

Very Orwellian, isn't it? :thinking:
 

alakazam

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The implicit position is essentially "You're not as good as us until you accept that you are an unimportant individual." This implies that the person who accepts their own unimportance, gains (moral) superiority over others who have not accepted it, and forms an elite with the right to criticise them. :whistling:

This exceptionalism can't be justified by anything but circular logic: it must always fall back upon the superiority of the premise that all others must be equal to any alternative beliefs.

Excellent point.
 

teslashock

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So the danes have been accused of exhibiting these laws in our daily life:

1. You shall not think that you are special
2. You shall not think that you are of the same standing as us
3. You shall not think that you are wiser than us
4. Don't fancy yourself as being better than us
5. You shall not think that you know more than us
6. You shall not think that you are more (important) than us
7. You shall not think that you are good at anything
8. You shall not laugh at us
9. You shall not think that anyone cares about you
10. You shall not think that you can teach us anything.

Good luck enforcing the legislation of mental activity. That would take some serious and expensive R&D; even power isn't worth that price.
 

Fluffywolf

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Actually, no, it's not. It's 'progressive' bullcrap.

Nope, that's what they think it is. But there is nothing progressive about assuming a stance like that.

I mean, it's progressive in the sense that it is change to the current administration. But the essence of the laws and its results are conservative like nothing else.
 

alakazam

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Nope, that's what they think it is. But there is nothing progressive about assuming a stance like that.

I mean, it's progressive in the sense that it is change to the current administration. But the essence of the laws and its results are conservative like nothing else.

No, it's not. Progressive crap tries to be 'socially responsible' and pushes 'social equality' (i.e. "manufactured equality"). In a stance like that, anybody that believes they are different is to be seen as lower-class because they're not drinking the cool-aide. In progressive/'socially responsible' societies, you must accept/believe that you are just like everybody else and there are no differences for you to fit into the society.

Conservative theology is that you are unique and can do things others can't (and they can do things you can't). From that, you are given the freedom to be yourself. From there, you can either: (1) realize that you can't do it alone, which necessarily required bartering with others in the same situation; or (2) going it alone and doing everything for yourself by yourself.

The O.P. is the first one...
 

Fluffywolf

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No, it's not. Progressive crap tries to be 'socially responsible' and pushes 'social equality' (i.e. "manufactured equality"). In a stance like that, anybody that believes they are different is to be seen as lower-class because they're not drinking the cool-aide. In progressive/'socially responsible' societies, you must accept/believe that you are just like everybody else and there are no differences for you to fit into the society.

Conservative theology is that you are unique and can do things others can't (and they can do things you can't). From that, you are given the freedom to be yourself. From there, you can either: (1) realize that you can't do it alone, which necessarily required bartering with others in the same situation; or (2) going it alone and doing everything for yourself by yourself.

The O.P. is the first one...

Whut. In the Netherlands the meaning of Conservative (Conservatief) is to preserve traditions or institutions, and to resist changes to them. And Progressive (Progressief) means finding new ways, to be willing to change into potential better environment. To renew traditions and institutions by questioning their value and worth in todays society and evolve them when there is a need, as time goes by.

That's the only conservative/progressive definition I am aware off.
 

Coriolis

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No, it's not. Progressive crap tries to be 'socially responsible' and pushes 'social equality' (i.e. "manufactured equality"). In a stance like that, anybody that believes they are different is to be seen as lower-class because they're not drinking the cool-aide. In progressive/'socially responsible' societies, you must accept/believe that you are just like everybody else and there are no differences for you to fit into the society.
A "progressive society" values equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome, which cannot be attained because of individual diversity. Appreciation and encouragement of this diversity is itself a hallmark of most progressive societies. The "sameness" that is recognized is our common humanity, that whatever our individual differences, we share similar needs, wants, and concerns.

It takes a "conservative" like George W. Bush to give us policies like No Child Left Behind, which essentially mandated lowest common denominator education. If no child can be left behind, then no child may get ahead. Uniformity at its worst.
 

ObeyBunny

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For this exercise, I imagined a neophyte nation where laws, customs, are still very young and unformed. Where any new social behavior won’t have to battle against previous held social stigmas. By the way, I’m thinking of these “rules” as being enforced by social stigmas- not political officials.

“Rule 1. You shall not think that you are special”
Hmmm… this social belief might have been created to prevent people from getting complacent with their past accomplishments- and therefore stop contributing to their community/family/religion/whatever. This belief might prevent the birth of dynasties or royal families who have inflated privileges that are based on the actions of some past ancestor.

I think that a society that comes to accept this social rule might foster a strong work ethic in its citizens (which is something that I approve of). Unfortunately, I think that the suicide rate of that nation would be pretty high.

However, if that is what you meant, you would have worded it more like “if you have accomplished nothing recently, you shall not think of yourself as special”

The way you have the rule phrased, it sounds like it means “you will never be special, no matter what you do.”
----
All other rules I instantly hate. The first one... I'm still thinking about.
 

mrcockburn

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Was #8 an add-in after they tried to recite the rest?

Ok ok, I'll behave.

:worthy: :peepwall: :emot-emo: :coffee:

Bad Great Mediocre Dane! Stop standing so tall!

Great%20Dane%20and%20Chihuahua%20small.gif
 

ZPowers

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A "progressive society" values equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome, which cannot be attained because of individual diversity. Appreciation and encouragement of this diversity is itself a hallmark of most progressive societies. The "sameness" that is recognized is our common humanity, that whatever our individual differences, we share similar needs, wants, and concerns.

It takes a "conservative" like George W. Bush to give us policies like No Child Left Behind, which essentially mandated lowest common denominator education. If no child can be left behind, then no child may get ahead. Uniformity at its worst.

Ah, beat me to that one.

I'm moderately certain it's conservatives who've proposed banning gay marriage. What a wonderful example of embracing diversity.

The fundamental idea that no one is different from anyone else in action or thought is incredibly dangerous if taken to a logical extreme. At a base level, some people are clearly special, and should be elevated to positions of responsibility and leadership, some are clearly problematic need to be (at the extreme) removed from society.
 

soccerjunkie1996

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1. You shall not think that you are special
But...but...my mom said I was special... :cry:

In seriousness though, good luck enforcing that...

2. You shall not think that you are of the same standing as us
O rly? Again, good luck enforcing that, I'll always think people are equal in standing regardless of whatever societal norms may say.


3. You shall not think that you are wiser than us
I'd never claim to be the wisest person to be sure, but I'd like to think I'm wiser than some, so I'm pretty sure I'd ignore this too.

4. Don't fancy yourself as being better than us
What does 'being better' even mean? I don't think I'm better than a lot of people, but there are definitely exceptions to that, so I'd probably find occasions where I'd ignore this too.

5. You shall not think that you know more than us
6. You shall not think that you are more (important) than us
7. You shall not think that you are good at anything
8. You shall not laugh at us
9. You shall not think that anyone cares about you
10. You shall not think that you can teach us anything

Okay, I'm done individually analyzing these because they are just ridiculous and unenforceable. I doubt anyone can stop me forming my own opinions and making judgments of others, and I'd rather be locked up for doing so than to obey these.

Would it work in your country?
No.

Would you find them useful to exhibit?
No.

Could there come anything positive or negative out of applying those laws in everyday life?
There will always be both good and bad impacts to legislation of any kind, but in the case of these I foresee much more negative than positive outcomes.

Which ones do you seem to fit with the NT approach?
To be honest I'd imagine a decent amounts of NT's would probably have the elitist mindset to think these things in comparing themselves to others, but I doubt those same NT's would support having them as actual laws.
 

Stevo

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This is the progressive pro-equality mindset taken too far. The inherent unenforceability of thoughtcrime aside, these rules smack of authoritarianism disguised as concern for the welfare of others. All the government that established these rules is doing is discouraging the questioning of authority and trying to eliminate dissent by making it illegal to dissent.

These laws would not work in the United States as long as our constitution still stands. Many of the laws are clear violations of the first amendment and would get struck down as unconstitutional before you could say "doubleplusungood."

Personally, I think that any NT that puts themselves on such a pedestal like this has to seriously reinterpret their view of reality. As for myself, I am very open to many of the things forbidden on this rule list.
 

Blank

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If enough morons happened to throw enough stones, as inaccurate as they may be, some are still going to hit target...which seems perfectly legal to do, going off that list.
 
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