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  1. #11
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alakazam View Post
    Actually, no, it's not. It's 'progressive' bullcrap.
    Nope, that's what they think it is. But there is nothing progressive about assuming a stance like that.

    I mean, it's progressive in the sense that it is change to the current administration. But the essence of the laws and its results are conservative like nothing else.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Nope, that's what they think it is. But there is nothing progressive about assuming a stance like that.

    I mean, it's progressive in the sense that it is change to the current administration. But the essence of the laws and its results are conservative like nothing else.
    No, it's not. Progressive crap tries to be 'socially responsible' and pushes 'social equality' (i.e. "manufactured equality"). In a stance like that, anybody that believes they are different is to be seen as lower-class because they're not drinking the cool-aide. In progressive/'socially responsible' societies, you must accept/believe that you are just like everybody else and there are no differences for you to fit into the society.

    Conservative theology is that you are unique and can do things others can't (and they can do things you can't). From that, you are given the freedom to be yourself. From there, you can either: (1) realize that you can't do it alone, which necessarily required bartering with others in the same situation; or (2) going it alone and doing everything for yourself by yourself.

    The O.P. is the first one...
    Intuition is the supra-logic that cuts out all the routine processes of thought and leaps straight from the problem to the answer.

  3. #13
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alakazam View Post
    No, it's not. Progressive crap tries to be 'socially responsible' and pushes 'social equality' (i.e. "manufactured equality"). In a stance like that, anybody that believes they are different is to be seen as lower-class because they're not drinking the cool-aide. In progressive/'socially responsible' societies, you must accept/believe that you are just like everybody else and there are no differences for you to fit into the society.

    Conservative theology is that you are unique and can do things others can't (and they can do things you can't). From that, you are given the freedom to be yourself. From there, you can either: (1) realize that you can't do it alone, which necessarily required bartering with others in the same situation; or (2) going it alone and doing everything for yourself by yourself.

    The O.P. is the first one...
    Whut. In the Netherlands the meaning of Conservative (Conservatief) is to preserve traditions or institutions, and to resist changes to them. And Progressive (Progressief) means finding new ways, to be willing to change into potential better environment. To renew traditions and institutions by questioning their value and worth in todays society and evolve them when there is a need, as time goes by.

    That's the only conservative/progressive definition I am aware off.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #14
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alakazam View Post
    No, it's not. Progressive crap tries to be 'socially responsible' and pushes 'social equality' (i.e. "manufactured equality"). In a stance like that, anybody that believes they are different is to be seen as lower-class because they're not drinking the cool-aide. In progressive/'socially responsible' societies, you must accept/believe that you are just like everybody else and there are no differences for you to fit into the society.
    A "progressive society" values equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome, which cannot be attained because of individual diversity. Appreciation and encouragement of this diversity is itself a hallmark of most progressive societies. The "sameness" that is recognized is our common humanity, that whatever our individual differences, we share similar needs, wants, and concerns.

    It takes a "conservative" like George W. Bush to give us policies like No Child Left Behind, which essentially mandated lowest common denominator education. If no child can be left behind, then no child may get ahead. Uniformity at its worst.

  5. #15
    Senior Member ObeyBunny's Avatar
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    For this exercise, I imagined a neophyte nation where laws, customs, are still very young and unformed. Where any new social behavior won’t have to battle against previous held social stigmas. By the way, I’m thinking of these “rules” as being enforced by social stigmas- not political officials.

    “Rule 1. You shall not think that you are special”
    Hmmm… this social belief might have been created to prevent people from getting complacent with their past accomplishments- and therefore stop contributing to their community/family/religion/whatever. This belief might prevent the birth of dynasties or royal families who have inflated privileges that are based on the actions of some past ancestor.

    I think that a society that comes to accept this social rule might foster a strong work ethic in its citizens (which is something that I approve of). Unfortunately, I think that the suicide rate of that nation would be pretty high.

    However, if that is what you meant, you would have worded it more like “if you have accomplished nothing recently, you shall not think of yourself as special”

    The way you have the rule phrased, it sounds like it means “you will never be special, no matter what you do.”
    ----
    All other rules I instantly hate. The first one... I'm still thinking about.
    Q: "What is the process of seeking the truth?"
    A: "Distilled liquor"

    Q: "If you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be?"
    A: "Between a starving prostitute and a steak sandwich."

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    A:He would build a cage, step inside, and rename his new location as "outside."

  6. #16
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Was #8 an add-in after they tried to recite the rest?

    Ok ok, I'll behave.



    Bad Great Mediocre Dane! Stop standing so tall!

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  7. #17
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    A "progressive society" values equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome, which cannot be attained because of individual diversity. Appreciation and encouragement of this diversity is itself a hallmark of most progressive societies. The "sameness" that is recognized is our common humanity, that whatever our individual differences, we share similar needs, wants, and concerns.

    It takes a "conservative" like George W. Bush to give us policies like No Child Left Behind, which essentially mandated lowest common denominator education. If no child can be left behind, then no child may get ahead. Uniformity at its worst.
    Ah, beat me to that one.

    I'm moderately certain it's conservatives who've proposed banning gay marriage. What a wonderful example of embracing diversity.

    The fundamental idea that no one is different from anyone else in action or thought is incredibly dangerous if taken to a logical extreme. At a base level, some people are clearly special, and should be elevated to positions of responsibility and leadership, some are clearly problematic need to be (at the extreme) removed from society.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    1. You shall not think that you are special
    But...but...my mom said I was special...

    In seriousness though, good luck enforcing that...

    2. You shall not think that you are of the same standing as us
    O rly? Again, good luck enforcing that, I'll always think people are equal in standing regardless of whatever societal norms may say.


    3. You shall not think that you are wiser than us
    I'd never claim to be the wisest person to be sure, but I'd like to think I'm wiser than some, so I'm pretty sure I'd ignore this too.

    4. Don't fancy yourself as being better than us
    What does 'being better' even mean? I don't think I'm better than a lot of people, but there are definitely exceptions to that, so I'd probably find occasions where I'd ignore this too.

    5. You shall not think that you know more than us
    6. You shall not think that you are more (important) than us
    7. You shall not think that you are good at anything
    8. You shall not laugh at us
    9. You shall not think that anyone cares about you
    10. You shall not think that you can teach us anything
    Okay, I'm done individually analyzing these because they are just ridiculous and unenforceable. I doubt anyone can stop me forming my own opinions and making judgments of others, and I'd rather be locked up for doing so than to obey these.

    Would it work in your country?
    No.

    Would you find them useful to exhibit?
    No.

    Could there come anything positive or negative out of applying those laws in everyday life?
    There will always be both good and bad impacts to legislation of any kind, but in the case of these I foresee much more negative than positive outcomes.

    Which ones do you seem to fit with the NT approach?
    To be honest I'd imagine a decent amounts of NT's would probably have the elitist mindset to think these things in comparing themselves to others, but I doubt those same NT's would support having them as actual laws.
    “My generation's apathy. I'm disgusted with it. I'm disgusted with my own apathy too, for being spineless and not always standing up against racism, sexism and all those other -isms the counterculture has been whinning about for years.” -Kurt Cobain

  9. #19
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    This is the progressive pro-equality mindset taken too far. The inherent unenforceability of thoughtcrime aside, these rules smack of authoritarianism disguised as concern for the welfare of others. All the government that established these rules is doing is discouraging the questioning of authority and trying to eliminate dissent by making it illegal to dissent.

    These laws would not work in the United States as long as our constitution still stands. Many of the laws are clear violations of the first amendment and would get struck down as unconstitutional before you could say "doubleplusungood."

    Personally, I think that any NT that puts themselves on such a pedestal like this has to seriously reinterpret their view of reality. As for myself, I am very open to many of the things forbidden on this rule list.

  10. #20
    . Blank's Avatar
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    If enough morons happened to throw enough stones, as inaccurate as they may be, some are still going to hit target...which seems perfectly legal to do, going off that list.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

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