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[MBTI General] What does a balance between J and P mean exactly?

ThinkingAboutIt

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Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
264
MBTI Type
INTP
From what I can see, they are pretty opposite. J's schedule things a year in advance, and actually do what is on their calendar (that blows my mind :shock: ). They like closure, so they want an answer and comittment right away (they always say it is so they can plan things). They are all morning people too (might not be a J trait, I don't know). They like visible organization. And, they think that people that aren't the same, or who don't do these things are flaky, irresponsible, etc. My sister often says that she doesn't remind me of events because it would 'enable my irresponsibility'. I told her that if she wants me to show up, she should remind me about whatever event they scheduled 6 months before :D
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Beyond the sharp contrast between Perceiver and Judger behavior, it's just damn near impossible to have your P/J orientation centered, because it means that your perceiving and judging functions are both ambiguously oriented, and ambiguously located. For you to be ENTx for example, you'd have to be both Te-dominant and Ni-auxiliary, and Ne-dominant and Ti auxiliary. It'd be easier to be caught in the middle of ENTJ and INTP (Te/Ni vs Ti/Ne), or INTJ and ENTP (Ni/Te vs Ne/Ti).
 

Robopop

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Mar 28, 2010
Messages
692
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Perceivers have Pe and Ji as their dom and aux and Je and Pi as their tert and inferior functions, so they will tend to value external flexibility and internal organization.

Judgers have Je and Pi as their dom and aux and Pe and Ji as their tert and inferior functions, so they will tend to value external organization and internal flexiblility.

But every type has Je, Ji, Pe, and Pi functions, like an INTP has Ti, Ne, Si, and Fe.

This is all in theory of course.
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
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Messages
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7w6
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sx/sp
Je may very well not find external organization as important, depending on its emphasis. I have a very strong Te, but its focus is heavily in the analytical side. I can spot how and why something doesn't work as well as it could (or should) from a mile away, but my room is a pigsty.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
From what I can see, they are pretty opposite. J's schedule things a year in advance, and actually do what is on their calendar (that blows my mind :shock: ). They like closure, so they want an answer and comittment right away (they always say it is so they can plan things). They are all morning people too (might not be a J trait, I don't know). They like visible organization. And, they think that people that aren't the same, or who don't do these things are flaky, irresponsible, etc. My sister often says that she doesn't remind me of events because it would 'enable my irresponsibility'. I told her that if she wants me to show up, she should remind me about whatever event they scheduled 6 months before :D

The way you describe J most definitly makes me a P. I'm getting an understanding. I've been thinking about it more, but it seems when I'm alone I'm an IJ, but when I'm around people I become EP (I usually always stay NT, however when I'm in EP form I do have more F).
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
You're a J. The definition described by ThinkingAboutIt is the Kirseyan definition, which relies entirely on actions as opposed to thought processes (as Jung originally intended), and is thus pedestrian at best.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
After reading several different descriptions of INTJ and ENTJ behavior, these were the ones I related too the most.
 

wildcat

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Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
Well, the theory is that a person's functional order will affect their behavior, which to an extent is true, but could be messed up by the way functions are oriented in the different types (which in a few cases doesn't fit the conceptions Kiersey had of the types). For example, ENFPs are Te-tertiary, and as a result they have a slightly stronger tendency to be organized than ENTPs.
100 - 1 = 99
9 - 1 = 8
9 - 8 = 1
8 + 1 = 9
9 X 9 = T(18)
9 + 9 = 18

81 - 18 = T(9 X 4)
99 - 36 = ?

The basis of your tertiary is not found.
 

ThinkingAboutIt

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Apr 8, 2009
Messages
264
MBTI Type
INTP
You're a J. The definition described by ThinkingAboutIt is the Kirseyan definition, which relies entirely on actions as opposed to thought processes (as Jung originally intended), and is thus pedestrian at best.

I am pretty new to all of this and here to learn. What you said makes me curious because both Jung and Kiersey are theories. Theories have to be 'proven' in real life. So, actions do matter...and thoughts eventually become actions? (I realize you are talking about 'information processing', but eventually, that is going to end up in action too, ergo the question).
 

Esoteric Wench

Professional Trickster
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
945
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
Perceivers have Pe and Ji as their dom and aux and Je and Pi as their tert and inferior functions, so they will tend to value external flexibility and internal organization.

Judgers have Je and Pi as their dom and aux and Pe and Ji as their tert and inferior functions, so they will tend to value external organization and internal flexiblility.

But every type has Je, Ji, Pe, and Pi functions, like an INTP has Ti, Ne, Si, and Fe.

This is all in theory of course.

Wow! This is the best I've ever heard this described and I think Robopop is exactly right.

I do think better balance between J and P is possible, but it's not akin to learning to write with you right hand when you were born left handed. I think J/P balance is a result of comprehensive mastery of all our top 3-4 cognitive functions and an ability to be able to CHOOSE to use the function most appropriate to the situation and not just the ones we are most comfortable using.

I'm going to subscribe to this thread presently. Very interesting.
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
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3,626
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ENTJ
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7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
100 - 1 = 99
9 - 1 = 8
9 - 8 = 1
8 + 1 = 9
9 X 9 = T(18)
9 + 9 = 18

81 - 18 = T(9 X 4)
99 - 36 = ?

The basis of your tertiary is not found.
Thank you for your profound insight. Now, can you please repeat that in English?
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
Theories have to be 'proven' in real life. So, actions do matter...and thoughts eventually become actions? (I realize you are talking about 'information processing', but eventually, that is going to end up in action too, ergo the question).

I do believe that you can base personality/actions on this, most of the time. The issue, I believe, as I'm forming it right now, is the fact that these personality profiles that we read often begin with how our thinking process affects our actions, but then they take those actions and make assumptions based on those. Instead of going back to functions and making sure they are alligned with those they start chaining actions together in I suppose a logical manner, not necessarily a true one though. I still don't know as much as I'd like, but I'm getting there.
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
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7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I am pretty new to all of this and here to learn. What you said makes me curious because both Jung and Kiersey are theories. Theories have to be 'proven' in real life. So, actions do matter...and thoughts eventually become actions? (I realize you are talking about 'information processing', but eventually, that is going to end up in action too, ergo the question).
Well... what I'm saying is that Jung's theories deal exclusively with thought processing, and the behavioral descriptions of the four-letter code have more to do with the actions that those thought process are likely to result in, rather than those actions being set in stone. That's where Kiersey fucked up upon trying to "improve" on Jungian typology.
 

wildcat

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3,622
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INTP
Thank you for your profound insight. Now, can you please repeat that in English?
9 X 9 = T(9 + 9)
9 - 1 = 8

8 + 8
Inclusion:
8 X 8

16
16 + 16
16 + 16 + 16
16 + 16 + 16 + 16

What are the corresponding numbers each time you turn the chart?
And what is their relationship to the original numbers and to each other?
 

Arclight

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Nov 5, 2009
Messages
3,177
MBTI Type
INFJ
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6w5
That's my question. I take the Myers Briggs test quite a bit and always seem to recieve a J, but it's only very slightly so. What would this mean exactly?

I am not sure just how facetious I mean to be here.

But it means you have a balanced J/P.. what is so confusing about it?
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
I suppose at this point the question means more what qualities of each make a balance between P and J?
 
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