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[NT] NT women and femininity *thread split*

SillySapienne

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The same can go for many women who go leaps and bounds for a certain someone they find special just to even notice them. It's the same in both realms of gender.
Do you honestly believe, in general, that both genders *equally* engage in "display tactics" to gain sexual access?!!?

:confused:

Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a mating dance, but it often times is initiated and engaged in by men, as in, the women watch, receive, ignore, deny, or accept.

Men are far more prone to engage in lekking than women are.

Now, regarding human love, that's different, but I don't think you're talking about that, what you are talking about is courting.

"The same can go for many women who go leaps and bounds for a certain someone they find special just to even notice them. It's the same in both realms of gender"

^Sure, there exists a population of women out there who go leaps and bounds for a "special" man to notice them, though, to be honest, this idea makes my mind immediately think of the scenario of a school girl who has a crush on "Mr. Big Guy on Campus", but I could be wrong.

And, I know I am in the minority of the female population in that I have tended to be the initiator of my romantic pairings, but this rarely if ever entailed my going through leaps and bounds to get a guy to notice me, but rather entailed my noticing a guy I liked, and simply proceeding to getting to know him by, well, getting to know him.

After all, as women with eggs more precious than semen, or more "valuable", we do, in fact, tend to be the choosers or arbiters of our mates.

Not to say that men do not have any choice, or selecting, they do, sexual selection does go both ways.

But, women do tend to be far more selective than men, period.

Case in point, if you are a female and you want to get laid *for free*, executing such a task will be far from difficult, but if you are a guy, with some exceptions, of course, such a task will be extremely difficult.

:)
 

Amethyst

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I wouldn't say 'equally' in general, but in my opinion, both genders (usually) put out the same effort in 'display tactics', although they are in different ways, and there are some who see these 'tactics' as effortless. Maybe to a guy getting a woman's attention then having a one-night-stand is like breathing to him, and maybe to a girl gaining the attention of other men, and actually being interested in the same person for an elongated period of time (since originally the topic was about NT females, and many have said that they fail to keep interest or be happy in the same relationship after a while or...hell just a couple of hours, even.)
 
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Tamske

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I'd like to react to the OP...

NT-ness is a "masculine" treat. Just like doing math or, worse, theoretical physics. When more women would do that (or show their NT preference), the association would lessen. Something like that happened to psychology. In the early years of psychology, the psychologues were all men, preferably with beards. Now more and more women choose that direction. As a result, the profession has lost status. Sad but true.

Some women convince themselves that they are bad at math, because that's what women are; and that's what attracts the men. Again, sad but true. Women NTs who show their NT-ness? Rare and only attractive to the men who want such women. We fish in a smaller pool, but that pool contains men who'll accept our NT-ness. I've said this elsewhere, but for me a big part of love is knowing that you can be your real self.

If you are okay with women dressing in jeans, talking about string theory (or insert any other abstract theory), and rather 'cool' than 'hot', go for an NT. Just not for this one, I'm not available any more.
 

SillySapienne

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I dress in jeans, I talk about insert any abstract theory, and am fucking :cool: as shizzzz.

So, the above does not simply apply to NT women.

I honestly think it might be an N-thing.

:yes:
 

Orangey

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I dress in jeans, I talk about insert any abstract theory, and am fucking :cool: as shizzzz.

So, the above does not simply apply to NT women.

I honestly think it might be an N-thing.

:yes:

As an ENFP you would say that you have a "cool" rather than "hot" temperament?
 

SillySapienne

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As an ENFP you would say that you have a "cool" rather than "hot" temperament?

I think Tamske was referring to "cool" as in, :cool: and "hot" as in, I dunno, good looking, is that not how you interpreted it?

I dunno, maybe I misread it.

:confused:

But, I am not cold, no, far from, I am a very warm person, very warm.

But that doesn't mean that I am not "cool", or that I can't even be cold, which I can be, and which is berry berry scary, or hmmm, calm/serene, you know? :)

I honestly think that on many levels an ENTP and an ENFP would share a lot of similarities, hell, even my ISTP and I had a lot in common, not to say we were not vastly different, too.

I digress.

I'm just saying, that I honestly think that maybe this thread needs to extend or incorporate being a chick and being an N-dom = being not like most chicks, you know?

And, I've suffered a lot in my past relationships, either being to odd myself, or getting to bored, it's hard to gel with a freak. :newwink:

And, just because I'm an NF doesn't freakin' mean I wanna talk about my and your feewings all the fuckin' time, I just like discussing interesting things, period. :)

Some doods aren't down for such insatiable curiosity for knowledge, but, there are plenty of men who are down for a :cool: chick, so all is not lost.

:)
 

Orangey

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I think Tamske was referring to "cool" as in, :cool: and "hot" as in, I dunno, good looking, is that not how you interpreted it?

I dunno, maybe I misread it.

:confused:

Nah, because she said "rather 'cool' than 'hot'," which, unless she was suggesting that NT women are in general not good looking, I think refers to temperament.
 

MacGuffin

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I'm just saying, that I honestly think that maybe this thread needs to extend or incorporate being a chick and being an N-dom = being not like most chicks, you know?

That's the case for all Ns, Sensors are the majority.

This is narrowing it further, and incorporating the T/F function which does have a distinct gender bias.
 
F

figsfiggyfigs

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It really depends.

I'm a pretty "feminine" person looks wise( I dress VERY girly). I come off as feminine as well( the way I carry myself, speak, etc).

I behave(express myself) and think in a very "masculine" manner, or what society relates masculinity to. I don't believe I do( by that, I mean, it's natural to me), and I don't define it as such; it seems everyone around me does though, while I believe I'm just being myself. I think it works for me, and it gets things done.

I don't really feel like going into details because I'm quite exhausted, but I believe other NT's know what I'm talking about...


edit: I posted in here already :)
 

SillySapienne

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Aren't ENTP firecrackers though, and wouldn't ENTJs be firecrackers too!?!?

I would think neither of these types would be "cold", I would think that they would be quite spicay!!!

:yes:
 

SillySapienne

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It really depends.

I'm a pretty "feminine" person looks wise( I dress VERY girly). I come off as feminine as well( the way I carry myself, speak, etc).

I behave(express myself) and think in a very "masculine" manner, or what society relates masculinity to. I don't believe I do( by that, I mean, it's natural to me), and I don't define it as such; it seems everyone around me does though, while I believe I'm just being myself. I think it works for me, and it gets things done.

I don't really feel like going into details because I'm quite exhausted, but I believe other NT's know what I'm talking about...


edit: I posted in here already :)

How am I supposed to read your posts when your avatars are scary!!!

:azdaja:

Honestly, they're particularly scary!!!!

:cry:

I'm such a pussy...
 

JustHer

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Translation of this thread: OP doesn't like it when women are more rational (and probably more intelligent) than he is, because it makes him feel like a woman.

/thread
 

SillySapienne

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Translation of this thread: OP doesn't like it when women are more rational (and probably more intelligent) than he is, because it makes him feel like a woman.

/thread

:sadbanana:

I don't think that's the case.

Though, I must say that being with an ITJ, versus an ITP is quite different, regarding how they accept/deal with my having y'know intelligentle sparkles in my head.

My ITP always encouraged rational thought, he thought *people* in general were morons, and that women, in general, were more moronic than men, but overall, he was big into being rational, rational, rational!!!

When he and I would argue, his ego would get in the way, but when he and I would just discuss things, he would be very impressed and happy with my ability to reason.

I think Z appreciates my N-ness and my Fi-ness, whereas my ex had no respect for the latter, whenever I exhibited it, he would say I was acting irrational and being fuzzy with my "logic", blah, blah, blah.

I have always believed in feminine and masculine ideals/constructs, and how they are manifested in human beings. :)

I think Z kinda feels the same thing.

The question I am wondering is this, is it wrong for a man to be attracted to feminine qualities, or for a woman to be attracted to masculine characteristics in their respective mates?

See, I LOVE feminine men as friends, but me no wanna fucky fucky them, personally, just not my thing.

Conversely, I neither like uber-masculine men either.

Due to my level of intellect, confidence and quirkiness, I inherently need a man who is confident enough to handle me without feeling threatened.

I dunno.

Just some thoughts...

:)
 

SillySapienne

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Feminine men and masculine women seem kinda just unfortunate in love.

Kinda sad when you think about it.
Not necessarily true at all.

Sorry, Z.

I know SOOOOOOOOOOO many men who find intelligent, confident, assertive, hell, even aggressive women HIGHLY ATTRACTIVE.

I have had relationships with these men, who yes, were quite feminine, and granted, I did not find them *sexually* attractive, but other than that, I found these men to be RIDICULOUSLY AWESOME.

Intelligent to brilliant degrees, sensitive, open, receptive, and just plain ol' awesome.

The thing is, for me, personally, I do not like being the Leader in my romantic relationships, it's just not my thing, I'm a space cadet, and it's too tiresome to always lead, and with these men, I always guided the conversations, the things we did, well, hell, I guided everything.

But, I know my INTP best friend LOVES herself some NF men, she likes 'em nice and soft, highly creative and such. :)
 

JustHer

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:sadbanana:

I don't think that's the case.

I am talking about this:

Ended up dating her, and, as I got to know her, I came to realize I was not attracted to her. I thought she was beautiful, but her highly rational nature did not stir up attraction in me.

He is saying that he does not like his women to be rational and I am assuming that it's because rational women make him feel like a little girl.
 

SillySapienne

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Translation of this thread: OP doesn't like it when women are more rational (and probably more intelligent) than he is, because it makes him feel like a woman.

/thread

Question:

Have you ever been with a man, who was, ummm, I dunno, let's just say he was so feminine that it kinda made you feel sick?

I, for one, cannot be with a man I do not respect on a intellectual level, and, I can't stand being with a man who is less assertive than I am. :sick:

Just not my thing.

He doesn't need to be aggressive per se, but please, no pussies, y'know?

And, I am not saying that F males are pussies, I've met plenty of TPs, particularly ITPs who've been the biggest pussies ever, and that's a big turn off.

Not trying to be mean, but that's my preference.

Now, with that in mind, I can imagine the reverse being true.

As in, a man being repelled by a woman who exhibits an over-abundance of stereotypically masculine traits or one who exhibits, in particular, the negative stereotypical masculine traits.

My ESTJ sister will totally repel me sometimes, NOT BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN, just because she can be such an asshole.

In general, I've *always* been attracted to androgynous or tomboyish girls as friends. :)

To be frank, I can't imagine someone being attracted to my ESTJ sister, I certainly wouldn't be, but she's not a particularly healthy ESTJ, in the first place, and I dunno, she can be hilarious, in a mean way, but other than that, I don't particularly care for her that much.

Let it be known though, that plenty of men fall HARDCORE in love with her.

So, yep, there's certainly love out there for any/everybody.

:yes:
 

SillySapienne

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I am talking about this:



He is saying that he does not like his women to be rational and I am assuming that it's because rational women make him feel like a little girl.
lol!

But I would say the same thing but differently, i.e. being with highly/overly emotional men does not stir up attraction in me, it's not because it makes me feel like a lil boy, it's because it makes me think they're well, insert the word you're thinking of.

:)
 

SillySapienne

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He is saying that he does not like his women to be rational and I am assuming that it's because rational women make him feel like a little girl.

He said *highly* rational.

That's just his preference.

:)

I happen to exclusively like T men in regards to romantic relationships, is this a bias, well, yeah, but I can prefer x,y,z in my mates, that's my right/choice. :)
 

JustHer

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Question:

Have you ever been with a man, who was, ummm, I dunno, let's just say he was so feminine that it kinda made you feel sick?

I, for one, cannot be with a man I do not respect on a intellectual level, and, I can't stand being with a man who is less assertive than I am. :sick:

Just not my thing.

He doesn't need to be aggressive per se, but please, no pussies, y'know?

He didnt say that he isnt attracted to butch women... or unfriendly/insensitive/uncaring ones. He said he wasn't attracted to rational women.

I would also not be attracted to a "pussy" but that has nothing to do with whether or not the man is rational.
 

Coriolis

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So, it sounds like whoever said femininity changes was wrong. This is pretty much what the general population of men sought after in a woman for centuries, someone caring, dependent more so on emotions, quiet etc.

Plus, personality is, for the most part, genderless. We just put sticky notes of gender on them in order to make unconscious generalizations.

If you believe T-type attributes to be by nature more masculine, and F-type traits to be feminine, naturally, you could extrapolate and say that T women may seem more masculine by having these qualities and living them.

A woman can be strong and still be feminine. A woman can demonstrate intelligence and still be feminine. A woman can seem aloof and still be feminine. A woman can be assertive and ... you get the idea.

Along the lines of the above, we need to expand our ideas of what it means to be masculine and feminine. Both are to large degree artificial constructs with strong cultural dependency and sometimes hurtful, or at least manipulative, intent. If a woman behaves "as a man", she might just be exhibiting a facet of femininity that is unfamiliar to the observer; similarly for a man behaving "as a woman". I am not asserting that there is no difference between masculine and feminine, or between men and women; simply that, MBTI statistics aside, these differences do not mirror the functional dichotomies.

The question I am wondering is this, is it wrong for a man to be attracted to feminine qualities, or for a woman to be attracted to masculine characteristics in their respective mates?
Of course it is not wrong, simply a preference, like many others. As always, honesty with self and partner helps.
 
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