[NT] NTP relationships

[substitute]

I've valued every minute of knowing you. It's been my honor.

Apparently the smileys aren't working at the moment very well, but it doesn't matter anyway because I don't think there's one for "face like a beetroot"!!

Ahem, on with the thread people, c'mon, quick, someone say something serious and intellectual!


*mumbles excuses to leave room and bangs into doorpost on way out*

 

[Domino]

lol! Hey, banging embarrassedly into poles/doorposts is MY gig! Get your own!

Now the Gallic shrug, I have yet to master. *does poor stiff J version* hahaha!

 

[Hypomanic]

I've known more NTP narcissists than I can shake a stick at. And further, I've had friends of other types admit the same NTP nastiness to them that the INFP spoke of (including my own ENFP sister who's just as smart or more so than the dismissive little anklebiter who turned on her).

Then again, that "bored" hostage-taking NTP behavior is so off balance and deserving of a kick to the head that I've seen other NTPs stand clear of it or offer to shake the offender until their teeth rattled.

[This isn't a sweeping condemnation of NTPs, nor is it an invitation to turn this thread into a NFJ-NTP bash-fest. Just responding to the OP.]

Hmm well that leads back to my above post..

Here is one possible case scenario:

The NF is more feelings oriented.
The NT is more intellectual oriented.
The NF mistakes the NT's intellectual debates as a cold expression of their true feelings, when in fact, the NT is only speaking theory.

" Verbally as well as cerebrally quick, ENTPs enjoy arguing: for its own sake, and to show off their impressive verbal skills. They often have a perverse sense of humour, and play devil's advocate regardless of consequence. They sometimes confuse, even hurt, those who cannot understand the concept of argument as a sport." -- ENTP.ORG

That should explain some things.
NT's are actually optimists. We're idealists as well.. the realists are typically S's.. although Niche was an INTJ I think.

 

[RDF]

From my experience, they are amoral, sadistic, colorless in personality with no concept of empathy. They seem like poorly designed simulacra of a human, inverted into constant self-worship. Their single-minded goal of 'appearing right' seems impossibly empty to me, not to mention dull and draining."

Just as a sidenote: INFPs are known for using hyperbole and exaggeration for emotional effect. A rant by an INFP with a strong vocabulary can really freak out NTs, who might take all that precise-sounding, colorful terminology literally.

Also, Perceivers have no difficulty holding and juggling conflicting opinions of something simultaneously. INFPs in particular have a reputation for being fickle due to their ability to shift rapidly between two strongly conflicting viewpoints. Combine that with a gift for hyperbole, and the effect can be either comical or devastating, depending on how one views those things.

When listening to an INFP, I personally tune out much of the emotional content. The words may be well-chosen and paint a reliable picture, but the dial on the emotional level may be set at 11. It doesn't necessarily mean they feel strongly about an issue. Even when INFPs are fuming and ranting about something, it doesn't take much to flip them around and get them talking about the positives. Who knows, the following day that same INFP in the OP might well praise NTPs to the sky after one of his NTP buddies helps him out on a school or work project.

INFPs justify these emotional gymnastics by referring to their open-mindedness, mental agility, or ability to deal with an emotional subject quickly and move on. But of course a lot of times it comes down to superficiality.

By the same token, I try to moderate the emotional content of my own speech and writing. I know from experience that my choice of language can be a little shocking to other personality types who may use language with more precision. I also keep in mind that in 10 minutes I may be taking the opposite side of the argument, trying to re-establish a more balanced picture. So if I feel strongly about something, then before speaking I double-check and see whether I could make the opposite argument with almost as much ease--and I usually can. So I try to strike the middle line first time out rather than have to backtrack later and explain why I'm seemingly all over the place on an issue.

IOW, I'm largely unimpressed with the OP. Sounds like typical INFP hyperbole. Until I see more evidence that this is really a deeply-held conviction, I just read it as "I don't get along well with NTPs. They're just too damned dry for me. They don't seem to appreciate my own colorful way of seeing things."

 

[substitute]

FineLine what you say there reminds me of an INFP I know who can work herself up into a frenzy ranting about Lisa Simpson and how much she REALLY hates her in the Barbecue episode where Lisa turns vegetarian. She seriously looks like she bears a homicidal hatred towards this cartoon child, and one could think she was completely derranged!!

But then, all it takes is for me to mention a really funny/cool part from a different episode, and she's now raving about that and laughing her butt off, having forgotten all about Lisa!

INFP's"!!

 

[RDF]

FineLine what you say there reminds me of an INFP I know who can work herself up into a frenzy ranting about Lisa Simpson and how much she REALLY hates her in the Barbecue episode where Lisa turns vegetarian. She seriously looks like she bears a homicidal hatred towards this cartoon child, and one could think she was completely derranged!!

But then, all it takes is for me to mention a really funny/cool part from a different episode, and she's now raving about that and laughing her butt off, having forgotten all about Lisa!

INFP's"!!

That's us.

INFPs can find and communicate the essence of an issue, but then we sagotage our own message with lack of balance and emotional overload.

ENTPs in particular can play a positive role for INFPs by testing our choice of language, questioning our commitment to a position, and compelling us to refine our message in general, or even just by diverting our attention to more entertaining subjects.

 

[lazyhappy]

my relationships are good with ntp's... but of course according to the mbti, i am one. i met 2 so far. My sister whom is a ENTP and my friend, another "intp". My sister can annoy me at times but we're are buddehs through thick and thin and i loves her and can mostly talk about anything with her. My "intp" (i put quotations for she is very XNFJ) and i get along greatly (even though we arn't the best of friends) but sometimes she starts preaching to me about the bible (even though it's not a "bad preach"- it still gets on my nerves) and i can't be with her anymore. but yeah... i love ntp's

 

[runvardh]

I wub me some NTPs and I distain me some NTPs. *shrug* Head ain't work'n so I guess I'll have to leave it at that...

 

[raincrow007]

I wub me some NTPs and I distain me some NTPs. *shrug* Head ain't work'n so I guess I'll have to leave it at that...

*loses interest mid-sentence and walks off*

 

[LucrativeSid]

I would be excited if somebody said something like that about me. Firstly, because it would be a great opportunity for a debate, and secondly, because there's a good chance that after the debate that person person will never speak to me again. Everybody has their flaws, but that's a little over the top. It doesn't matter though. Judgemental people rule. They actually stand firm, even when they've got nothing to stand on. That's fun, you've got to admit!

Not only do I get bored with people once there's no longer any kind of challege, I get bored with people once they know ME too well. And I can easily deem a person as worthless to me and move on without fear that I've made the wrong choice. On the outside, most people don't notice. It's when they try to pry their way in that I come across as a jerk. For the most part, I do lack empathy. I certainly wouldn't expect anybody to have empathy for me.

 

[spirilis]

I think in an unhealthy state of mind, especially one devoid of external stimulus (ie extreme-introvert mode), an INTP at least can become extremely narcissistic, mainly because he spends his day analyzing stuff that only involves him, so his present mindset is skewed by a surplus of information that only pertains to him. It is extremely important for an INTP to expose themselves to other people and social situations in general so that they may prevent themself from becoming jaded by it.

Not really sure how ENTP's relate to that though.

 

[nightning]

"Do you ever get bored with them? My friend made a good point when he said once you have analyzed someone enough, there isn't much new to be offered there. I think he is also an INTP and would rather talk to strangers for the sake of fresh perspective then people he already knows. I can't help but agree. What do you think?"

Some immature TNPs might be difficult to get along with. I've seen ENTP wander on to something new without realizing he left problems in his wake... but most of the time once the tertiary Fe comes things work out okay. INTP stuck at the initial stages of Ne can do the same thing... It takes time for them to learn to move on.

"INTP and ENTP are my least favorite types -- I don't even like to be in the same room with these people. They seem to enjoy constant conflict. I've had several as close friends for a time, but when my intellectual appeal wore off they got nasty. From my experience, they are amoral, sadistic, colorless in personality with no concept of empathy. They seem like poorly designed simulacra of a human, inverted into constant self-worship. Their single-minded goal of 'appearing right' seems impossibly empty to me, not to mention dull and draining."

*nods to FineLine's comment about INFPs use of hyperbole* ENTP's desire for intellectual debates can at times get out of hand. Although I myself generally like this attribute up to a point.

 

[cafe]

I have never perceived my husband to be the way NTPs are described in the original post. Maybe it's because he's religious. Maybe it's because he likes me. Maybe it's because he had a somewhat traumatic childhood and he craves peace. I don't know.

We met when he was twenty and he has always been sweet to me. It's rare that he really hurts my feelings and that's pretty amazing because they are easily hurt. When we were younger and I hadn't calibrated for his temperament as well as I have now, I would sometimes feel neglected and/or ignored, but I haven't felt that way for years.

His emotions and the way be expresses them may not be conventional and he doesn't suffer fools gladly, but he does not mistreat people or speak rudely to them. His religious beliefs are that he is to live in intelligent consideration of his wife and he is diligent about doing so. I respect him more than anyone else I've ever known. He is kind and funny and true and no woman was better loved than me.

 

[htb]

We met when he was twenty and he has always been sweet to me. It's rare that he really hurts my feelings and that's pretty amazing because they are easily hurt.

No confirmed INTP that I have met in person has much, if any, capacity for aggression; nor a desire to hurt or lie. Untruths seem to come from self-deception: as if in the INTP's mental header, a variable has been switched by wishful thinking, resulting in bad data thereafter.

 

[autumn]

The first thing that comes to mind is that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a healthy, balanced, mature example of any type and an example of the same type that...has an exceptionally large amount of improvement to make.

Now, different types may be tend to manifest immaturity in certain characteristic ways, but there are also character and virtue deficiencies that really have little to do with MBTI type. It's pretty unfair to assume all people of a certain type are automatically equipped with a certain set of vices based on one or two experiences with people who may have had other difficulties. It can be difficult not to do this when the type you have clashed with is already a type that has preferences very different from your own, or even when their preferences differ only slightly (leading people to focus perhaps more intently than they should on those differences).

I do think it's very important not to attribute things to MBTI type that actually have nothing to do with MBTI type, and important not to attribute the unequivocally negative (that is, not just "different from my own") characteristics of an immature person of a certain type to that type intrinsically.

For what it's worth, I am an NF and have mentioned before how much I love NTPs, particularly the one I am married to and another of my very closest friends .

autumn

 

[SolitaryWalker]

I think in an unhealthy state of mind, especially one devoid of external stimulus (ie extreme-introvert mode), an INTP at least can become extremely narcissistic, mainly because he spends his day analyzing stuff that only involves him, so his present mindset is skewed by a surplus of information that only pertains to him. It is extremely important for an INTP to expose themselves to other people and social situations in general so that they may prevent themself from becoming jaded by it.

Not really sure how ENTP's relate to that though.

Introverted Judgment without a strong sense of higher/inner purpose will become radically egocentric.

INTPs are less likely to succumb to this than ENTPs because they tend to have more faculties to work with in order to achieve this goal of introverted judgment.

The problem for ENTPs is that their Introverted Judgment will fall slave to their Extroverted Perception. They will then manipulate their external environment just to pick the berries.

Some immature TNPs might be difficult to get along with. I've seen ENTP wander on to something new without realizing he left problems in his wake... but most of the time once the tertiary Fe comes things work out okay. INTP stuck at the initial stages of Ne can do the same thing... It takes time for them to learn to move on..

I'd say INTPs have less of this problem because of their dominant Judging function. They are more stable. Their problem isnt moving on too fast, but simply not being well-informed of interpersonal issues to resolve.

No confirmed INTP that I have met in person has much, if any, capacity for aggression; nor a desire to hurt or lie. Untruths seem to come from self-deception: as if in the INTP's mental header, a variable has been switched by wishful thinking, resulting in bad data thereafter.

No, INTPs are not big on wishful thinking..as they are as T as it gets..Holding erroneous beliefs you've depicted here is a result of not properly collecting information due to bad perception...(When Ti eclipses Ne)

The analysis is almost always impeccable, yet in such situations their solutions will not be relevant to the external situation.

This isnt self-deception but simply unawareness of the external situation.

I am thinking the INTP may appear disingenuine delivering inaccurate information about the external situation (flawed Ne), and about their Feelings(lack of Fe). To many other types lacking awareness of the two is difficult to conceive, and for this reason they mistakenly end up believing that the INTP attempted to delude them.

No confirmed INTP that I have met in person has much, if any, capacity for aggression; nor a desire to hurt or lie.

Dominant Introverted Judgment, if properly developed should give the individual very strong-principles--especially if coupled with the tough-minded attitude of a dominant Thinking faculty.

However, INTPs who have not found higher/inner purpose will likely incur self-apotheosis.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

The problem of the OP outlines Introverted Judgment gone corrupt in combination with the NTP opportunistic mindset.

This is where they stop taking their principles seriously and turn their self-apotheosis outwards.

Can very much happen to NFPs, though would manifest itself in a very different light.

In short this is a problem of corrupt introverted judment.

Its more common among EPs than IPs because a secondary faculty is more likely to malfunction than the primary.

The problem of corrupt Introverted Judgment is most clearly outlined in EJ and IJ types, however since Introverted Judgment plays a small role in their psyche, the corruption, however distinct tends to entail few significant consequences.

 

[Priam]

OK, so this is my first real post on the boards, so be as gentle as NTs can be. I have been typed out as an INTP, so I just wanted to toss out my own personal experience: I think most everybody is right. Like another person said earlier, one of the traits NPs tend to carry is the ability to balance a paradoxical position in their head without, y'know, EXPLODING. I can simultaneously feel like:

-A natural aristocrat. I get the sensation, sometimes warranted, of being a cut above everyone in the room intellectually and spiritually.

- A deeply flawed being. I can see quite clearly the darkside and downside of my character, the places where I am NOT as competent or strong as others; indeed, I often remind myself that, as great as I may be, someone out there is better in some way.

- An iceberg. Is there a chill in here? Oh wait, it's just me.

- A roiling sea of emotion. Again, the introspective analysis comes in and I realize that I'm no more immune to passionate feelings that anyone else. No one is ever a special case.

- A cynic. Snark? Snark? We're all stocked up here! People are people, both good and bad, so Utopia is a pointless endeavour.

- An idealist. Yet, somehow, perfection isn't the point. Humanity has been growing into itself over thousands of years, and there's reason to hope that we'll continue to do so.

- A misanthrope. Everybody always wants to drive into my personal space and park there for hours! Go. The. H***. Away!

- A people person. The human animal is the single most complex, fascinating creature on this planet, and I can't get enough of learning more about them! How can I not love a mystery that consistently, and often consciously, reinvents itself each day? And sometimes they want me to help!

I'm sure there are a lot more contradictions, but I do feel like I could fall in every category mentioned depending on the day I've been having. Pretty much like everyone else, I suppose.

 

[Athenian200]

OK, so this is my first real post on the boards, so be as gentle as NTs can be. I have been typed out as an INTP, so I just wanted to toss out my own personal experience: I think most everybody is right. Like another person said earlier, one of the traits NPs tend to carry is the ability to balance a paradoxical position in their head without, y'know, EXPLODING. I can simultaneously feel like:

-A natural aristocrat. I get the sensation, sometimes warranted, of being a cut above everyone in the room intellectually and spiritually.

- A deeply flawed being. I can see quite clearly the darkside and downside of my character, the places where I am NOT as competent or strong as others; indeed, I often remind myself that, as great as I may be, someone out there is better in some way.

- An iceberg. Is there a chill in here? Oh wait, it's just me.

- A roiling sea of emotion. Again, the introspective analysis comes in and I realize that I'm no more immune to passionate feelings that anyone else. No one is ever a special case.

- A cynic. Snark? Snark? We're all stocked up here! People are people, both good and bad, so Utopia is a pointless endeavour.

- An idealist. Yet, somehow, perfection isn't the point. Humanity has been growing into itself over thousands of years, and there's reason to hope that we'll continue to do so.

- A misanthrope. Everybody always wants to drive into my personal space and park there for hours! Go. The. H***. Away!

- A people person. The human animal is the single most complex, fascinating creature on this planet, and I can't get enough of learning more about them! How can I not love a mystery that consistently, and often consciously, reinvents itself each day? And sometimes they want me to help!

I'm sure there are a lot more contradictions, but I do feel like I could fall in every category mentioned depending on the day I've been having. Pretty much like everyone else, I suppose.

I think everyone goes through that, but NP's probably tend to make it more obvious because they aren't trying to maintain an outer consistency in their behavior as their minds "change face." I just try to seem the same way (passive/withdrawn, formal but amiable) regardless of how I feel, so that I don't seem inconsistent.

 

[Priam]

I think everyone goes through that, but NP's probably tend to make it more obvious because they aren't trying to maintain an outer consistency in their behavior as their minds "change face." I just try to seem the same way (passive/withdrawn, formal but amiable) regardless of how I feel, so that I don't seem inconsistent.

Oh absolutely. Humanity can often be, in itself, all about contradiction and the way we balance ourselves around it. I think all that changes is where the conflict rests and how we manifest internally/externally. For me it tends to manifest externally as being an absolutely pitch perfect, passionate devil's advocate for myself and others. If I can slice things thinly enough, I can (for a time) argue about most anything from a place of belief... and I certainly will. Drives people nuts