[MBTI General] NPs and dealing with career stress

[Cypocalypse]

A friend, whom I suspect is an INTP, told me this:

"Much of what we like don't really have any practical use. I mean, Philosophy? Haha! Spirituality? Hahahahaha! I mean, sure, we do like writing, but there's no such thing as a writing industry. What we like, we can only do as a recreation. But to make a career out out of it? At some point, we'll just have to suck it up."

Great piece of advice from him. Him, being someone who hasn't heard of MBTI and didn't have the time to explore his Ne and Ti, unlike us MBTI people, who have, at some point, devoted time understanding who we are using MBTI as a template, even losing more the little traces of practicality that we have.

I'm not saying that he's necessarily a very well rounded character though. He still have those stereotypical INTP flaws (like being comparatively short tempered and more pricky than me. Being ENTP, I'm more easy going than him). It's interesting to note that he's able to endure 4 years in the Business Process Outsourcing Industry (the industry that has all the corporate bullsh*t imaginable).

________________________

I was just thinking that, instead of the usual articles where preferred careers (often idealistic) for each NP type is listed online, wouldn't a "coping up" advice seem more realistic and practical? Most of us NPs will never ever get to have that full chance to explore our passion anyway.

The tricky part is this. Most of NPs lived an SJ life/environment. NPs are the types that get hurt the most by the SJ environment. Often times, they end up resenting it, probably using MBTI as an online haven. Except maybe for the ENxPs who have outlets to make them more perky, and less depressed.

But my INTP friend has a point. At some point, we go back to being SJ, again.

My question is, just how do you do it? How do you go back to something you've resented, and cope again?

 

[goodgrief]

Yeah well you could say writing has little practical value, but then you could say that about science, building etc. Why do we need houses. We could justlive like animals and we'd still survive. We just wouldn't have the life and culture we oh so enjoy.

 

[cafe]

My INTP has sort of found a niche in a (probably) SP dominated field. It allows for a reasonable amount of autonomy and not having to deal directly with management/office politics. His level of comparative conscientious shines and wins him automatic brownie points with the powers that be, which is nice for job security.

The job not something he's passionate about but it's bearable. Few things suck more than being perpetually in financial crisis, which is a pretty strong motivating factor for sucking it up.

 

[CrystalViolet]

This NP knows sucking it up well, a girls got to eat, and I rather like having a nice warm bed to sleep in.
However nice little forays into other fields seems to help break up the damage of the soul destroying corperate enviroment, and trying to create a life outside of the current hell hole helps too.
It's a bummer trying to fit into a world that barely tolerates your characteristics, but I want to go to Nepal next year may be as a VSA, and I need Mulah to do it with.

 

[hilo]

This NP knows sucking it up well, a girls got to eat, and I rather like having a nice warm bed to sleep in.
However nice little forays into other fields seems to help break up the damage of the soul destroying corperate enviroment, and trying to create a life outside of the current hell hole helps too.
It's a bummer trying to fit into a world that barely tolerates your characteristics, but I want to go to Nepal next year may be as a VSA, and I need Mulah to do it with.

My one over-riding principle has always been "money will not make me happy". I would bet this is a common sentiment for NP types. Not meaning that I want to take a vow of poverty, but I absolutely will turn down an oil-industry job (having had offers) which makes twice as much as probably the max I'll ever make in academia, because the latter will be far more fulfilling and more than adequate for my material needs.

I do enjoy travel, particularly getting off my particular continent, but I find that by living simply these are not out of reach even as a graduate student.

But (and this may be my J/P dichotomy speaking) I always, ALWAYS, have back-up plans. If I don't get a post-doc, I'll become an instructor for a year, if not that, I'll teach high school, if not that, I'll work for a friend's company as a programmer, etc, etc. I've been poor long enough to know how easy it is to get into trouble without plans.

But selling my soul to the corporate world? Absolutely f**king not.

 

[CrystalViolet]

My one over-riding principle has always been "money will not make me happy". I would bet this is a common sentiment for NP types. Not meaning that I want to take a vow of poverty, but I absolutely will turn down an oil-industry job (having had offers) which makes twice as much as probably the max I'll ever make in academia, because the latter will be far more fulfilling and more than adequate for my material needs.

I do enjoy travel, particularly getting off my particular continent, but I find that by living simply these are not out of reach even as a graduate student.

But (and this may be my J/P dichotomy speaking) I always, ALWAYS, have back-up plans. If I don't get a post-doc, I'll become an instructor for a year, if not that, I'll teach high school, if not that, I'll work for a friend's company as a programmer, etc, etc. I've been poor long enough to know how easy it is to get into trouble without plans.

But selling my soul to the corporate world? Absolutely f**king not.

It's not so bad, but I'm a public servant. At least I'm not working for a pharmaceutical company.

 

[INTPness]

In a certain sense, this has been "the biggest battle of my life". I have had about 11 different jobs since I was 16. I've done well in everything I've undertaken (began to move up the ladder and then people were shocked when I decided to leave), but I absolutely refuse to let go of my passion and my dreams. What I'm saying is that it is a reality that we live mostly in an SJ world and that I have certainly had to hold down jobs in that arena (and I'm currently working in SJ world as well) in order to make ends meet. But, I continue to plug away and make progress on the bigger picture (owning multiple businesses). Anything other than my businesses is simply a stepping stone. I WILL NOT be pwned by SJ world.

I believe that it's imperative that we all do the thing(s) that we are passionate about. I believe that I have a personal responsibility to put my unique talents into the mix - into the world - and to do so in an arena that I'm passionate about. Simply put, it is my responsibility to be true to who I am - both for myself and for the benefit of others. If I "cave in" to SJ world, I'm depriving people of *something* - whether it be beautifully written music that I could have written, an organization that gives back to the community, etc, etc (the list could go on forever depending on individual talents - we all have them). Not to mention, if I cave into SJ world permanently, then I myself won't be happy and I'll probably be less effective as a father/husband and all of that fun stuff.

SJ world is a reality. It exists and I can't deny that. I continue to play the game, but I never lose sight of what I'm here to do. Simply put, I've got one life to live and I'm not *going out* on someone else's terms - I'm going out scratching and clawing and being true to who I am the whole way. Refuse to lose!

 

[INTPness]

By the way, it's not like INTP's aren't capable of carrying out whatever they desire to do in life. INTP's are extremely capable folks. It's a matter of "tapping into" that talent/passion and running with it.

Most INTP's can do extremely well at anything they put their mind to and if they believe in themselves. I'll say it again: anything an INTP desires to do, he can do it. I think there's something deep down inside of all of us that knows this is true. Someone the other day (I think it was an ENTP) said on these forums, "When I bring my "A" game, the world better watch out!" It's a matter of caring about something enough, wanting bad enough to make a difference, that you're going to go out and get it - and who cares what people think. It may not be something that is entirely mainstream, it may not be something that "most people" would do or even that most people are capable of. But, if you care about it and it gets your juices flowing and you're good at it, there's nothing to stop an INTP from being extremely successful and happy in life. Some of the things I'm pursuing people say, "Good luck with that." I've even heard, "What the hell makes you think you can pull that off?"

Thing is, who are they to say what my capabilities are? I'm sorry if I'm capable of doing things that you can't. Just because you don't believe you can do it, doesn't mean that I don't believe I can do it. That's what you have to fight. Don't let other people tell you what you can and cannot do. Live your life with spunk and energy and passion - do what you love and what you're good at. But, still be true to who you are. I'm an introvert and I need "down time" to recharge my batteries. That's just a fact and a reality. But, I work with that "limitation" (if that's what you want to call it). I recharge and then I go right back to it!

 

[Shimmy]

Like others said before in this thread. I have to have a job. I've been unemployed for a couple of months last year and I f*cking hated it. I don't ever want to be unemployed in my life. Now that I do have a job again, I want to try and find a way to make money doing stuff I like more than my current job, but I won't quit my job until I've found another sure-fire way to make money and spend time.

 

[jenocyde]

Um, writing is definitely a career. Have you ever heard of a thing called television? Or music? or movies? or novels? wtf???

My INTP is a writer of in-depth analyses. I write, as well. For film.

Of course, being super Ne fueled, I also do a million other things. If you hustle, you can always make money doing what you love. I've done the corporate thing, which is just as pointless as any other career. When I realized that it's all arbitrary, I just decided to do what I wanted to do. And I've made just as much money as I did when I was in a suit. It's all in the hustle.

 

[CzeCze]

Jeno, what kind of writing for film do you do?

I've studied writing before and the one thing I know is if you want to be a writer professionally you can't be lazy about it. Most people who write talk more about writing than actually doing any - those are probably the unemployed writers.

OP - were you saying that was good advice for and from OP's to "suck it up"? :horor:

I know INFPs kinda wilt and die or turn into their shadows if they do something they don't love. My friend (I think she's ENTP) told me not to go to law school because it was "soul crushing" and I wouldn't be able to handle it as well as she did (she also hated it).

As for me, I can't do sustained un-loved career. Through experience I've realized that money isn't really a big motivator for me and neither is pleasing my boss or being well regarded. I'll take care to look good superficially and it may seem like I'm motivated to others but really I just do enough to mask my core disinterest.

I like to do a good job, period but I can't just "suck it up" because mentally I lose it and get very scattered and basically demoralized to the point I'll just float through until I either get booted or quit.

I need to feel *engaged* in my job and basically feel fulfilled. My 'NP' advice would be to explore the facets of what you like to do avocationally and see if there are transferable skills or some jump off point for a career. For instance, my friend worked in admin and handled a lot of association newsletters and eventually realized her passion for survey writing and statistics (not kidding).

Or if you are drawn to a certain kind of lifestyle. It's possible to work in an industry but not as the 'star'. For instance, not everyone can be an athlete but you can still definitely work for a sports team or league in a variety of jobs. People love Hollywood but you don't have to be a Spielberg or Jolie-Pitt to get paid or be a part of the movie-making magic.

If you want a certain kind of lifestyle - involving lots of travel or exposure to cultures, a non desk job, have lots of disposable income, live in a very rural area, etc. - look for jobs that meet those needs and decide for yourself what your top 2 priorities for a job. You may surprise yourself because what you really want is not what you thought.

If you like writing, there are many ways to do that as a career.

I think sucking it up sounds horrible, basically.

 

[kelric]

The tricky part is this. Most of NPs lived an SJ life/environment. NPs are the types that get hurt the most by the SJ environment. Often times, they end up resenting it, probably using MBTI as an online haven. Except maybe for the ENxPs who have outlets to make them more perky, and less depressed.

But my INTP friend has a point. At some point, we go back to being SJ, again.

My question is, just how do you do it? How do you go back to something you've resented, and cope again?

I definitely have these issues. But the answer to the "how do you do it" is that I don't have much choice. They say that pride is a fault, but often I find that it, driven by a fear of failure, is what prevents me from simply dropping out of the "SJ" life. Having to admit to my family (*all* SJ's ,by the way - and this isn't an exaggeration) that I was the "loser" of the family/friend group (although my most definitions I am anyway) is something that I just wouldn't be able to abide very well. I don't have much of a support system in place, so standing on my own is absolutely required. So I put up with it.

I won't pretend that there isn't an awful lot of frustration, stress, and sometimes even anger when it comes to fulfilling the "expectations" of my job. Almost all of these are due to bureaucracy, silly rules, and the assumption (and requirement) that I'm willing to sacrifice my personal time for the convenience of co-workers. These things bother me much more than they bother others in my workplace, and I'm burning out. But at this point, it still seems to be the best alternative (there *are* things about it that I like, and although I'm the loser of my family/friend group, I do okay financially).

There's also the issue of "doing what you like for fun as a job makes it work, and not fun anymore" thing. As much as I tell myself that I'd want a job that is a hobby/interest/meaningful as well... I suspect that the *requirement* to do it it would sort of kill the enjoyment. What I do now (the portions I like) isn't a "love", but I do get some satisfaction from it -- which is really all I think most people (certainly me) can expect.

Money in and of itself is not a large motivator for me. But freedom *is*. There's more than a little overlap there, and I look forward to vacation time and eventually (hopefully) being able to retire in another 30 years or so. Of course, that's if I don't say "screw it", sell everything I own, and move to Breckenridge, Aspen, etc. and take up an "everyone would be so disappointed-in-me" career of working in a ski shop and spending my free time on skis or learning to snowboard .