[NT] Female NT's: Are relationships a challenge?

[MacGuffin]

Dunno. I can imagine that there would probably be the same kinds of "be caring," "show affection," "spend lots of time with me," etc., types of expectations that would be more difficult for NT women than for other types.

Are those expectations the main problem for NT women in relationships, or is it something else?

 

[proximo]

I figure gender stereotypes would be reduced in homosexual relationships.

Oh no, sometimes it's even worse! Society tends to sorta force gay people to define themselves by their sexuality. And so, they can end up defining their partners by their gender because the gender of their partner is what their entire life is defined by, a lot of the time.

 

[Salomé]

Anyone else relate?

What happens to me that drives me up a tree is this: The guys who respond to me and are like, ‘You’re awesome. You’re kind of a hellcat.” They think it’s cool and kind of bad-ass that I’m outspoken and passionate about things. They think that’s really hot. They’re into it. But then when that outspokenness gets applied back to them, it’s suddenly game-over. You know the idea of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl? She’s light, and quirky, and she has no inner life of her own, and just there to serve our hero’s development and erotic interests. I sort of feel that I get cast in these dudes’ narratives as the Hellcat Dream Girl, there to prove how bad-ass they are because they’re dating such a bad-ass woman. They think it’s cute or sexy. But when I use that smart, outspoken bad-assery to challenge their own perspectives, it’s suddenly not sexy at all. It happens when they say something that I disagree with, and I act like a person and not someone that is playing out their particular fantasies.

It’s happened to me a million times . . . they want it as a trophy. “Hey, look at my bad-ass girl.” They don’t want to deal with me as a person. It follows this pattern where it usually comes from a person who seeks me out. They try to seduce me. They think I would be an accomplishment to conquer or something. They seek me out and try to get me interested in them, and then I am, and then they flee . . . I feel like the same thing happened with the guy I dated for two years. He liked the idea of being a guy who would be with someone like me, but ultimately it turned out that he wanted someone who wouldn’t challenge him as much, a person who was easier and quicker to sweep away. I got evidence of that when, within three months of breaking up with me, he was dating a 23 year old who lists her political views on Facebook as “moderate.”

It would be nice to be in a long-term stable relationship, but only in the sense that I would like to find someone with whom I am actually motivated to build such a relationship. In reality, though, I’ve kind of settled into the idea that I will probably not end up creating such a relationship; I feel like maybe that reads as sad or depressing, but it doesn’t feel like that at all. I mean, I’ve never been the person to fantasize about My Ideal Wedding, but I have fantasized about My First Published Book since before I could actually write. Which isn’t to sound morally superior or like this is actually a good thing; it’s probably something I should talk to a therapist about, to be quite honest. I read all these stories about women my age who are totally anxious about finding The One and getting married, and I keep hearing that women my age have this biological clock thing ticking quite loudly, and even a lot of my friends seem to be feeling like they should be locating their person right about now, and I often wonder if there isn’t something seriously deeply wrong with me not only because I don’t feel any of that anxiety but also because I don’t at all fear A Life Alone. Maybe that will change in a decade — my mother says it will, and then she reminds me that she would be a really great grandmother. But it means that in the meantime, I can get to know a lot of different people without feeling like I’m auditioning them for the role of Jill’s Perfect Mate. It takes a lot of pressure off.

It also results in a lot of disappointment and trainwrecky dates and aborted relationships.

And I also end up making compromises all the time, until I decide I can’t anymore, and that never ends well.

 

[Resonance]

Anyone else relate?

that summarizes my first relationship...

Of course, it was only my first. My ex had been in at least 3 other relationships which went exactly the same way... I guess I appeared more submissive on the surface or something.

 

[Salomé]

^I call it the Petruchio complex.

 

[Resonance]

^I call it the Petruchio complex.

I've never actually read or seen The Taming of the Shrew. From the Wikipedia article, it looks positively devastating.

 

[Tallulah]

Anyone else relate?

I do, for sure. Though I do think there are some who enjoy a philosophical debate in their spare time more than others do. And I think there are also some smart men and women who don't know how to exchange ideas without turning the whole thing into an argument. I can generally tell pretty early on if a guy is going to be threatened by my not agreeing with everything he says or not deferring to him. But I do try to be respectful of anyone I disagree with. Usually.

And then I think there are also guys who like the idea of dating a hellcat, but they have the fantasy that the hellcat is a kitten around him. Thanks, Hollywood.

 

[MacGuffin]

They think it’s cool and kind of bad-ass that I’m outspoken and passionate about things. They think that’s really hot. They’re into it. But then when that outspokenness gets applied back to them, it’s suddenly game-over.

What's the difference between outspokenness and criticism?

Gottman's Four Horsemen of the Relationship Apocalypse (criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling) defines it as:

Criticism. Criticism involves attacking your partner’s personality or character, rather than focusing on the specific behavior that bothers you. It is healthy to air disagreements, but not to attack your spouse’s personality or character in the process. This is the difference between saying, “I’m upset that you didn’t take out the trash” and saying, “I can’t believe you didn’t take out the trash. You’re just so irresponsible.” In general, women are more likely to pull this horseman into conflict.

If it's happened to the author a "million" times, maybe it's not the men she dates, but the fact she's the relationship Simon Cowell.

 

[Salomé]

Damn. I thought we'd gotten rid of all the judgmental losers using this thread to take pot shots at NT women / tell us what's wrong with us. Because we don't hear that enough already EVERY FUCKING DAY.

I guess it does prove one point though: everyone else knows how to run our lives better than we do.

 

[Jaguar]

Damn. I thought we'd gotten rid of all the judgmental losers using this thread to take pot shots at NT women / tell us what's wrong with us. Because we don't hear that enough already EVERY FUCKING DAY.

I guess it does prove one point though: everyone else knows how to run our lives better than we do.

Those words are as soothing as sticking needles in the cornea.
Let's do lunch.

 

[MacGuffin]

I was just being outspoken and passionate!

 

[Salomé]

Go do it in the Passive Men Suck thread on your home channel.

 

[MacGuffin]

Go do it in the Passive Men Suck thread on your home channel.

You're gonna make Jack cry again.

 

[spin-1/2-nuclei]

What's the difference between outspokenness and criticism?

For me personally I am outspoken in the sense that I am not afraid to tell my BF the truth about a situation or be honest about what I'm thinking, but I don't cross the line into criticism which I feel results when you're not only expressing your opinion but passing it off as correct and requiring the other person to submit to it or else. That kind of crap I don't do.

I typically find that I have no trouble attracting guys but in the end they mostly want to change me into what I could be and not what I am. I'm not receptive to that and I will end the relationship immediately at the first sign.
The biggest complaints I get are that I don't try enough (in relation to my appearance and dressing up). I was raised by my dad so I'm not girly and my hobbies aren't girly and for some men that's a problem for the long term...

 

[Salomé]

You're gonna make Jack cry again.

There was a point when he actually stopped whining?

I typically find that I have no trouble attracting guys but in the end they mostly want to change me into what I could be and not what I am. I'm not receptive to that and I will end the relationship immediately at the first sign.

I don't think I've ever met a man who didn't want to change me. Even men I wasn't in relationships with!
Guess we just attract the Pygmalion types. That's all our own fault, naturally.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I won't say that I haven't wanted anyone to change for me, but I believe I would characterize this, for myself, as wanting to understand why someone acted a certain way. If I didn't understand why they act they way they do I'd call the action into question and even if they didn't have a reasoning, as long as they understood it was pointless I could accept it... yeah. I accepted early on the odds of someone actually changing for me was ultimately one in a million, this leaves acceptance as the only answer. Live and let live.

 

[runvardh]

I'm all for live and let live if she will...

 

[Uytuun]

There should be a positive counterpart to this thread. What do we love about relationships and how are we good at them?

I don't know where analysing/pointing things out/questioning ends and criticism begins to men.

There's criticism(1) "the practice of analyzing, classifying, interpreting, or evaluating" and there's criticism(2) "the act or an instance of making an unfavourable or severe judgment, comment, etc."

I think they're very different things.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

It does need to be mutual, this is true.

 

[runvardh]

There should be a positive counterpart to this thread. What do we love about relationships and how are we good at them?

I don't know where analysing/pointing things out ends and criticism begins to men.

There's criticism(1) "the practice of analyzing, classifying, interpreting, or evaluating" and there's criticism(2) "the act or an instance of making an unfavourable or severe judgment, comment, etc."

I think they're very different things.

The first one often has the word 'constructive' prepended and I can't blame a person for using that. It's the second one that will drive anyone crazy.