• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NT] Female NT's: Are relationships a challenge?

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Yes! I am not destined to be alone after all. The Gods have bless me today.

Hunt down, hmm scrap that, let an ENTP wimminz hunt you down, it seems.
 

Katsuni

Priestess Of Syrinx
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
1,238
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
3w4?
Rawr left the thread alone too long it seems. Well let's see whot's in here to poke at.

I dated a female entp and i can tell you, (though this may be only in my case) that the reason that it was so frustrating for me was not that i couldn't handle her and thus didn't want to fight to hold on, (we were a total intellectual match, thats what i found most appealing about her actually), its more that her disatatchment and fear of getting to close was hard to live with. I think saying that its because people cant handle you guys is a very entp way of understanding it and possibly pretty innaccurate.

Isolated incident to an undeveloped one. I've learned over the years that small things like being the FIRST one to say yeu care or love them is important. One BF mentioned that over years I had never once said I loved him first, and only after he first said it. I've since realized this's an issue upon my part, and one which reoccurs without conscious remembrance of the fact that little things are actually big to people it seems.

It's a dumb tiny thing... of course I love yeu. I loved yeu the last time I said it. I haven't done anything to say I don't love yeu anymore. Why would I need to reaffirm something that's already obvious? Isn't a snug/cuddle and doing something nice enough? Why do I have to flat out say something so obvious? It feels like small talk and irritates me to the core to have to repeatedly state the obvious. It's like treating my partner like they're mentally handicapped and incapable of understanding basic forms of affection that they absolutely HAVE to told in no uncertain terms on a regular basis like clockwork or they panic.

This can be often mistaken for 'fear of getting too close', but instead it fuels it. If yeu require small things like that and are clingy, it is a major turnoff because it feels like dealing with a 6 year old with brain damage rather than an intellectual equal.

This does lead to becoming distant and avoiding further commitment.

Over time I've managed to restrict that knee jerk reaction significantly and just do the little things, which's made things go alot smoother due to such. But yes, a decade or so ago I would've been very skittish about long term relationships with people because of fear they'd just leave, and hurt me in the process. Letting people in is also letting them get close enough to cause deep emotional damage; the closer someone is, the more damage they can do. And if they turn around and leave in a nasty way, they can leave some serious marks that last for years. I'm still hurting from one who left around 5 years ago or so, and haven't fully recovered, because of some of the things said when they broke up with me.

It's only to be expected to be more than a little cautious, especially with one of the very, very few people who would be considered close enough to open up to and allow to see when hurt and look to for help.




Hahaha, and I find that people tend to say we have problems getting close when really we just have problems being close to them. Especially with ENFPs where thisclose is still not close enough and I'm wondering what is left for me to give... my blood? My issue in dating, especially feelers, is that it feels like I am shoveling more and more into a bottomless pit and I take a step back and look at my life and realize that I can't possibly keep this up for ever. It's just too much sometimes. It just feels that it's never enough.

NF's can be... difficult. Even the one I'm with now, loves him to death, but I swear, he's out to drive me insane XD

But yeah, I agree that they can be very... "I need to know mooooooooooooore!". I let myself out slowly, a little bit at a time. There's very specific circumstances which allow me to open up and if it's not during one of those 'stars are aligned' moments, yeu're probably not going to get much out of me.

Those that can accept that and go at the pace I'm comfortable with, we'll get along fine. Those that have the burning NEED to know more as fast as possible at their breakneck pace? They will be ditched and left alone, they aren't worth the time or heartache.




And what Katsuni said has some truth to it.

Woohoo! Wait... when do I ever not say truth >.>;;


I feel like people give up on me a lot quicker than I would give up on them. If I come to someone with a problem, it's dismissed pretty quickly because I don't "seem like the type that needs any help with anything". I've heard that more often than I can count. But I feel like everyone turns to me with their problems because I offer very good and unbiased solutions.

Perhaps that's the reasoning, I'd never really been given a straight reason for why.

My biggest problem right now, or well no not my biggest but the biggest relationship-wise anyway, is my INFJ has the bad habit that in the times I really flat out need help and a shoulder to cry on, usually it's met with anger rather than help.

I've been working with this as best as I'm able to, and it's making good progress, but it's really rough when the one person yeu're supposed to be able to rely on for help yeu don't trust anyone else to help with only gets furious when yeu turn to them for aid.

Most others I've dated just seem to ignore it, or get irritated by it. I don't let anyone else know of my problems usually; I could be dying of an emotional hemorrhage inside, but the world would never know. I only let very close and special individuals even know when I'm hurting and need help. If I ask for help, I MEAN it. It's hard enough to ask in the first place, and will usually leave it until it's nearly too late as it is.

Far too frequently it's been met with apathy, disinterest, or irritation.



I cried once in front of someone I thought I was very close to (an ENFP actually). She just sat there stunned and now reminisces constantly (with glee, in front of people) about that really rough time in my life because she never imagined someone as strong as me would ever cry. And that she is so happy that she was the one that saw it because that means that I think of her as a close friend. Wtf? She seriously gets happy talking about it and she wonders why I've slowly been pulling away from her. Wtf? She thinks it's just me putting walls up again. And she's right.

I haven't had that happen to me before thankfully, and that is horrible to hear >.<

If someone had done that to me, especially telling OTHERS about breaking down like that? The least of their problems would be me pulling away from them, it'd be that the pulling away would be part of the act of winding up to hit them as hard as I could. Unlikely physically, but they would be suffering for daring to do that to me.

All I can say, is yeu're a better person than I am. I don't think I could even remotely tolerate that behaviour for any length of time.


Even without meaning to I'm constantly throwing out tests to those I'm close to so I understand what's acceptable and what's not by their reactions, very few people are able to understand my inner workings so to speak, or be on a similar wave length and therefore understand what kind of response I'm looking for.

So I'm not the only one who does that XD

All the time I'm putting out tiny tests and such to people, say something random to see their reaction, leave something alone I should've done to know where a limit is, ask a question I know the answer to just to hear their answer. If they KNEW it was a test, it'd taint the results... the most pure tests are the ones people take without knowing they're taking them. Then they show their true colours.

Which makes it just that much easier to get along with them once yeu know whot they expect of yeu.
 

Misty_Mountain_Rose

New member
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
1,123
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
4w5
...My issue in dating, especially feelers, is that it feels like I am shoveling more and more into a bottomless pit and I take a step back and look at my life and realize that I can't possibly keep this up for ever.

*shudder* This is exactly how I felt with the F's I've dated (and even some extremely Fe/Fi dominant friends). It makes me... uncomfortable isn't the word... more like frustrated and eventually exhausted. I can't handle constant drama. People like that get cut out of my life pretty quickly.

Have any of you thought someone too cold?

Aside from a parent? I've never been in a romantic relationship like that, but both of my parents are pretty selfish and one even unemotional to the point of what even I would call 'cold'. (Unhealthy ISTP I think)

My INTP and I, even though we are both quiet and live in a huge apartment, we are looking for an even bigger place. Currently, we share a bedroom but we also share the office and the living room. We both want our own offices and our own "play" rooms. It's frivolous, but we are on the same page about it. We want more space to be away from each other. No tears, no prodding, no hurt feelings. We didn't have to even have a justification conversation about it - we just think the same way. It's important for each of us to have the option, the feeling of independence. Does that mean that things are not interesting between us? Of course not. We have similar ways of thinking, but what he thinks always interests me.

The funny part is that the more space we give each other, the less of it we actually use.

:wubbie: How I wish I could find someone like that. I think, from relationships with friends and even co-workers, that I would do exceptionally well in a relationship with an INTP. I've never found one that I didn't like, male or female.

I guess to answer the OP - I find that I can 'get' a guy easily if I put myself out there and show him I'm interested. Its the keeping thats the trick. Once I decide that I actually like a person, something kind of cracks open in me and all these absurd, intense 'I like you a lot' things start coming out of my mouth. I think they become taken aback because as they get to know me, they find out that I am more than smart-ass jokes and competent. Does it surprise them that I'm multi-dimentional?

In younger years I would date pretty much anyone who was interested... kind of in the spirit of science, you know? 'You don't know unless you try'. But as I get older, I'm finding that I only fall for people that I've been friends with for a while. People who already know quite a bit about me, know the way I act in general and still like me. :cheese:

The problem with that is that it takes me SO long to realize that friendship feelings have turned into other feelings that when I DO realize it, I'm usually pretty well on my way to falling. This is problematic.
 
F

figsfiggyfigs

Guest
Aside from a parent? I've never been in a romantic relationship like that, but both of my parents are pretty selfish and one even unemotional to the point of what even I would call 'cold'. (Unhealthy ISTP I think)
I'd much rather have your parents than my overly-emotional parents.
They think I'm "mentally sick"( their words. True story). Cause of how objective/rational I am compared to them. They don't understand how I don't show emotional reactions/attachment to anything... I DO have emotional attachments okay. I just don't publicize my feelings or worry about something I can't control...


I guess to answer the OP - I find that I can 'get' a guy easily if I put myself out there and show him I'm interested. Its the keeping thats the trick. Once I decide that I actually like a person, something kind of cracks open in me and all these absurd, intense 'I like you a lot' things start coming out of my mouth. I think they become taken aback because as they get to know me, they find out that I am more than smart-ass jokes and competent. Does it surprise them that I'm multi-dimentional?

ROFL, welcome to my world :laugh:

In younger years I would date pretty much anyone who was interested... kind of in the spirit of science, you know? 'You don't know unless you try'. But as I get older, I'm finding that I only fall for people that I've been friends with for a while. People who already know quite a bit about me, know the way I act in general and still like me. :cheese:
yes, that is my tactics as well :ninja:
The problem with that is that it takes me SO long to realize that friendship feelings have turned into other feelings that when I DO realize it, I'm usually pretty well on my way to falling. This is problematic.

seriously... can I get an AMEN. hahhahaha I completely understand your dilemma. it's REALLY frustrating.
Cause once I like a person, the way I think, AROUND THEM, changes. :doh:
 

runvardh

にゃん
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
8,541
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
It's entertaining, many of the complaints I see here are ones I've had about women. I wonder if it's just the way of things that we all tend to be looking in the wrong directions.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
"Give me five more minutes" is a common phrase in my house that roughly translates to "I'll be right with you in about 2 hours, or so".

Oh gawd. I've been called on that so many times, it's not funny... (or maybe it is....!)

... My issue in dating, especially feelers, is that it feels like I am shoveling more and more into a bottomless pit and I take a step back and look at my life and realize that I can't possibly keep this up for ever. It's just too much sometimes. It just feels that it's never enough.

Yes, it depends on the person, but can quickly become an emotional sinkhole. I don't have the emotional stamina for that, I run out quickly and need lots of freedom; the problem (and there still is one) there, though, is that I sometimes feel bad because I can't reciprocate to the degree I know they desire. Instead, I am trusting them that "being myself" (rather than behaving like them in terms of the emotional cues I put out) is something they love and enjoy in itself and that they aren't expecting me to mirror them; I spent too many years playing those games of "like reciprocation" and it's taking time to trust that I can just be me.

I cried once in front of someone I thought I was very close to (an ENFP actually). She just sat there stunned and now reminisces constantly (with glee, in front of people) about that really rough time in my life because she never imagined someone as strong as me would ever cry. And that she is so happy that she was the one that saw it because that means that I think of her as a close friend. Wtf? She seriously gets happy talking about it and she wonders why I've slowly been pulling away from her. Wtf? She thinks it's just me putting walls up again. And she's right.

:doh: Amazing.

I have come to the conclusion that I am emotionally incapable of maintaining a long term relationship. I simply cannot be vulnerable in the way that most people expect you to be vulnerable in a relationship. I don't know why the rules of interaction change just because you're screwing someone on an exclusive basis.

Well, it's typically more than "just screwing."
I can screw anyone I want without having a relationship with them.
It's the relational thing that demands investment and has expectations attached to it. Different people have different ideas about what a good and satisfying relationship looks like.

Have any of you thought someone too cold?

Typically it's TJs who I read as cold, if anyone.

Not cold per say but too, erm, black and white with facts I guess, as in no room for personal details and removed from the emotions of a situation. It could be viewed as cold but for me it was more about the rigid inflexibility and inability to consider factors that cannot be shown in raw data. Quite the turn off.

Yeah, that. And it's probably where I get "TJ" from, they tend to drift in that direction more easily.

Dear lord I know what that's like.:doh:
It's like twice the trauma. First from what caused the whole episode in the first place, then having to deal with knowing someone witnessed your breakdown. In my case, it was in front of a crowd...twice. I never got over that. Then to be mocked about it just makes me explode. It's like a betrayal.

Damned straight.

They're taking something you're already vulnerable and embarrassed about and throwing it out there naked for everyone to gawk at.

The last time I got dicked over was by my parents. I spent my whole adulthood pulled back from them, keeping walls up, because they weren't safe; but I finally decided I needed to be honest with them about something and I wanted to do it right, not the cheap-ass self-protective version. So I went out to talk to them and ended up bawling uncontrollably for much of it... and they turned on me after.

I was mad about the betrayal, but I was also really really pissed because I let them inadvertently see my tears, and then they did that. I think I still handled things correctly, but they will never get access to me again like that.
 

01011010

New member
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
3,916
MBTI Type
INxJ
All of the above. Most people that would date me aren't worth my time, and I have very specific ideas about who will work for me in the long term.
 

Oddly Refined

New member
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
230
Enneagram
5
All of the above. Most people that would date me aren't worth my time, and I have very specific ideas about who will work for me in the long term.

I think it takes quite a bit of time for many people, myself included, to figure out what kind of person will work for them in the long term. Sometimes one understands personal boundaries in theory, but reality is quite different. It's a rather complicated topic.
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
Well, it's typically more than "just screwing."
I can screw anyone I want without having a relationship with them.
It's the relational thing that demands investment and has expectations attached to it. Different people have different ideas about what a good and satisfying relationship looks like.

That would be why I said "on an exclusive basis."
 

Uytuun

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
1,633
MBTI Type
nnnn
I think it takes quite a bit of time for many people, myself included, to figure out what kind of person will work for them in the long term. Sometimes one understands personal boundaries in theory, but reality is quite different. It's a rather complicated topic.

I agree.

As for relationships - sometimes I feel like the sheer force of the emotions cripples my intellectual abilities...when I love it is everywhere, it's not just a tiny program running in the background. It requires a lot of my resources.
 

hilo

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
186
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9 sx
:rofl1:
...
I'm very uncomfortable with the notion of sharing everything in a relationship. Wouldn't that actually destroy relationships? :huh:

Interesting point, and I do agree. I bet there are some types out there that would really balk at that idea, even though it might be good for them.
 

Oddly Refined

New member
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
230
Enneagram
5
I agree.

As for relationships - sometimes I feel like the sheer force of the emotions cripples my intellectual abilities...when I love it is everywhere, it's not just a tiny program running in the background. It requires a lot of my resources.

As I said to an enfp friend of mine. Love makes my head asplode! No more plzkthnxla~..
 

theadoor

*hmmms*
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
586
MBTI Type
esfp
Enneagram
8w9
Relationships aren't a challenge, but finding the right person for them is.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Why do the smartest women have the toughest time dating? Because we deal with Idiots.

From Jezebel
Just when I blocked out the last of the "Black woman, you are going to die without a man!" madness, hypnotist-turned-love doctor Alex Benzer decided smart women need to be taken down a peg. Fuck this noise. I'm jumping up on my soapbox here, because I am sick of being vilified for being who I am. By logic, this shouldn't even affect me - I've been off the dating market for three years, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
But the constant drumbeat of "this is what's wrong with you!" permeates even the most stable of towers, and it is beyond ridiculous that there is an entire industry waiting to tell women all the things that are wrong with them. And why am I supposed to compensate for being black, smart, or accomplished?

Tipsters hit us with this gem yesterday, titled "Why Do Smart Women Have The Toughest Time Dating?" written by Alex Benzer, author of Tao of Dating, Tao of Persuasion, and Tao of Sexual Mastery. And he has the answer for all of the smart women out there who can't find a man:
What compels me to write this article today is a recent trip to the Harvard-Yale Game festivities, reminding me of how smart, educated women routinely sabotage their own chances for romantic fulfillment.
Because, as fabulous as these ladies are, all of their failed relationships have one thing in common: themselves. And frankly, telling them that men are losers or even proving it conclusively doesn't improve anyone's plight. Useful advice is about something you can change.
And what needs fixing? According to Benzer, we think too much, we're too difficult, we're competitive, and not quite feminine enough. Some choice quotes from Benzer:
Once a relationship with Mr Smartypants is under foot, often she unconsciously starts to compare and compete with him. She feels intimidated by his intelligence: "Is he smarter/more educated/more successful than me?" Now she's feeling silly when she doesn't know something, or tries to one-up him and have the upper hand. The guy doesn't quite know what's happening, except that the very trait that made him attractive in the first place is now causing tension.
Remember that guys admire and respect a woman who can take charge and kick ass. Guys respect and absolutely adore a woman who can take charge and kick ass but doesn't feel the need to prove it around him. According to Marianne Williamson's insight in A Woman's Worth, "In intimate relations with men, I want to major in feminine and minor in masculine."
Newsflash from the cosmos: masculine things gravitate towards feminine things. So if you want more masculine things (e.g. guys) in your life, then cultivate your feminine energy. Men are suckers for your sensuality, the swing of your hips, the nape of your neck, the curve of your lips. They absolutely love it when you take pleasure in the physical world through touch, food and sex.
Men also love it when you're open to needing and receiving their help. They like to feel useful and wanted, even though they know full well that you can open doors and run companies on your own. Receptivity is a quintessential feminine quality, so if you want more good men in your life, be receptive to their offerings.
If you're embodying joy, compassion and sensuality, telling him how great he is, making him feel like a billion bucks and the conqueror of worlds, you have no competition. Anywhere. Good men will come out of the woodwork to find a goddess like you.
Roger that. While Benzer starts off his piece extolling all the things he loves about smart women, it's clear what needs to happen from his piece. Less books, more of this:

And when you're finished making sure you've achieved an acceptable level of hotness for society at large, adhere to the three principles Chris Rock so helpfully outlined in Bigger and Blacker: men want food, sex, and silence, so feed him, fuck him, and shut the fuck up.

Simple right? It so simple that every time I read a dating guide (penned by either gender) I already know what's coming. Wear tighter clothes. Suck more dick. Cook more food. Be nicer. Be prettier. Wear skirts and dresses. Work your stove, not your brain. On and on and on.

And why don't I see articles telling men to step their game up if they want to land a smart woman?
 

Amethyst

¡MI TORTA!
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,191
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx

Interesting points...

I actually looked at that article that Benzer wrote, and what I noticed pissed me off more is the generalization. Not all smart women talk about their job, or have their career in their personality, no matter how lucrative or respected it is, on a date, even though the article assumes that is the smart woman's problem. Why do smart women, or women in general, have to put love first, when the male doesn't? Could this be a T/F difference? I'm not sure, and who ever said I wanted to be irresistible? Do you know what that means to me? Hoards of guys I can't get off my back, most of them most likely not as intelligent as I want a man to be. I can understand some points of that, like don't look like a frumpy slob, but that is something that applies to both genders. I'd much prefer asexuality before succumbing to traits that display how I am not.
 

InsatiableCuriosity

New member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
698
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
*shudder* This is exactly how I felt with the F's I've dated (and even some extremely Fe/Fi dominant friends). It makes me... uncomfortable isn't the word... more like frustrated and eventually exhausted. I can't handle constant drama. People like that get cut out of my life pretty quickly.

Constant drama wears me out as does attention seeking, possessiveness, and affection overdone - I need time and space to think and if I don't have that I malfunction LOL


But as I get older, I'm finding that I only fall for people that I've been friends with for a while. People who already know quite a bit about me, know the way I act in general and still like me.

I couldn't agree more!! All the propping and posing of the getting to know a person from scratch from the dating perspective is anathema to me. Then once the veneer is peeled back and I find that I don't like the person, I feel like I have totally wasted time and effort.

For me, and maybe other INTPs, if I don't like their values or their intellect does not challenge me, or they are too hard work because they are clingy, possessive, extrovert their feeling in an overwhelming way, then I am off like a shot!:thumbdown:
 

copperfish17

New member
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
712
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Constant drama wears me out as does attention seeking, possessiveness, and affection overdone - I need time and space to think and if I don't have that I malfunction LOL

Oh yes. :cheese: I tend to throw my Fe shadow all over the place when I'm surrounded by dramatic people.

For me, and maybe other INTPs, if I don't like their values or their intellect does not challenge me, or they are too hard work because they are clingy, possessive, extrovert their feeling in an overwhelming way, then I am off like a shot!:thumbdown:

I'm with you on all accounts. :headphne:
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Thread should be retitled.

True dat. This thread is about if NT women find relationships a challenge.

That thread is for the crap about how unfeminine NT women are.

The crappiest of the crap is now somewhere in the graveyard, the line has been liberal, as in much crap is still there, but meh.
 

Amethyst

¡MI TORTA!
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,191
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
*sigh* Finally.
 
Top