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  1. #141
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methylene View Post
    But I usually feel like telling them would be too hurtful, or maybe I just don't have the balls. I don't know, saying out of nowhere "look, I don't care about you" when I literally gave no sign of emotional involvement is harder to me than just ghosting them. I'm not proud of this, of course.
    They've never been revengeful for not reciprocating, just more clingy, I guess. When it happens, it's usually too late because I'd feel like my freedom was at risk.
    I can't fall in the trap of emotional manipulation if I don't feel anything.
    I see it as something you just develop over time when self-confidence builds and also self-assurance.

    Nowadays I would just say, "Sorry, really, but I'm not interested." In fact, I have actually done that. It's not a fun thing but i don't see the point in beating around the bush and now I have the confidence to stick with my decision and handle any fallout.

    But the "withdraw" approach is just a typical starting strategy for INTP (tied to enneagram 5 -- there's a ton of INTP 549's out there, and 5 and 4 and 9 are all "withdrawing" types... IOW, the most withdraw-focused type out there).

    How I see it -- INTP has great faith in the impersonal case but has a hard time discerning one's own internal needs and desires, due to Ti. Fi doesn't have much problem with that, they seem typically tied into what they need. Typically INTP tries to make relationship decision early on in life based on the impersonal factors and then crunching out an answer -- regardless of the personal feelings, which are suspect by nature. Also, if information changes, the answer will changes -- but basically there is this guy whose feelings you will hurt and who is forcing you to make an emphatic final answer on whether you're interested. Ne is like "Well, what if I'm wrong?" Ti is like, "Well, maybe if I try it, I could change my mind... but he's making me give an answer NOW and generate closure." Meanwhile, if you're not feeling anything, the whole thing just ends up feeling like a trap that needs to be escaped.

    And too like you said, it probably won't be clean -- the guy will want you to justify why you're saying no in a reasonable fashion, or he might be clingy rather than just going away to take care of himself independently, and it just feels like one of those things where you just need to get out ASAP in hopes that distance will send him off to deal with things on his own.

    I just found it easier as i got older to draw more lines and stand my ground, partly in knowing what I actually need/want in a relationship and just also having more confidence that I can stand my ground without being sucked into something I don't want. I was always good at knowing what "made sense" to do based on data and impersonal understanding, but it took me a really long time to understand my own personal needs instead of just dismissing that part.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #142
    Now with less salt. Methylene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post
    I see it as something you just develop over time when self-confidence builds and also self-assurance.

    Nowadays I would just say, "Sorry, really, but I'm not interested." In fact, I have actually done that. It's not a fun thing but i don't see the point in beating around the bush and now I have the confidence to stick with my decision and handle any fallout.

    But the "withdraw" approach is just a typical starting strategy for INTP (tied to enneagram 5 -- there's a ton of INTP 549's out there, and 5 and 4 and 9 are all "withdrawing" types... IOW, the most withdraw-focused type out there).

    How I see it -- INTP has great faith in the impersonal case but has a hard time discerning one's own internal needs and desires, due to Ti. Fi doesn't have much problem with that, they seem typically tied into what they need. Typically INTP tries to make relationship decision early on in life based on the impersonal factors and then crunching out an answer -- regardless of the personal feelings, which are suspect by nature. Also, if information changes, the answer will changes -- but basically there is this guy whose feelings you will hurt and who is forcing you to make an emphatic final answer on whether you're interested. Ne is like "Well, what if I'm wrong?" Ti is like, "Well, maybe if I try it, I could change my mind... but he's making me give an answer NOW and generate closure." Meanwhile, if you're not feeling anything, the whole thing just ends up feeling like a trap that needs to be escaped.

    And too like you said, it probably won't be clean -- the guy will want you to justify why you're saying no in a reasonable fashion, or he might be clingy rather than just going away to take care of himself independently, and it just feels like one of those things where you just need to get out ASAP in hopes that distance will send him off to deal with things on his own.

    I just found it easier as i got older to draw more lines and stand my ground, partly in knowing what I actually need/want in a relationship and just also having more confidence that I can stand my ground without being sucked into something I don't want. I was always good at knowing what "made sense" to do based on data and impersonal understanding, but it took me a really long time to understand my own personal needs instead of just dismissing that part.
    You're right, everything you said sounds just like me.

    I've never been comfortable with taking a decision and sticking to it. There's always this part of me telling "what if I'm wrong, what if I took the opposite road?". I'm not comfortable with definite situations, so that's why I always try to leave a door open for change.
    The problem is, such a situation would require a simple answer based on emotional criteria. "Do you feel anything? Yes or no". It usually is no.

    Last years, I've started to look for bodily sensations to understand that, as just interrogating myself is of no help. The butterflies in the stomach, for instance, should be a clear sign that I'm emotionally interested, as they're generated by a release of adrenaline. It kind of is a childish way, but I've found no others useful.
    First I decide it could be convenient to be interested, then, maybe, the rest of me starts to feel something.
    But it seems like it happens more rarely than others, or maybe I truly am misinterpretating my needs.
    I don't think that it's so personal
    Anymore
    I don't think that it's irreversible
    Anymore
    Sometimes I feel like I'm a sentimental trooper.

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    Likes Totenkindly liked this post

  3. #143
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Not NT (I'm INFJ) - but from what I've observed of my INTP best friend of 10+yrs, yeah - relationships have unique challenges for her than I haven't observed consistently in women of Feeling types.

    She's had the tendency to date men who seem easygoing, ie low maintenance. It often turns out that they aren't so much low maintenance as they are emotionally unavailable for one reason or another due to unchecked baggage. Even thinkers need a partner who can be emotionally healthy/present with them when applicable.

    She doesn't do well with recognizing her own needs - particularly in the moment - which makes it more difficult to communicate these needs to her partner. She also analyzes into the ground and through Earth's core if her needs are even 'real' to begin with. Even when she has decided her feelings/needs/concerns are valid, she often sits on them for days/weeks, trying to construct the best way to broach the topic. Construct the perfect phrase. Often this leads to her casting it aside because she took too long to figure out the 'right' approach. She works out a million possible ways she could bring it up, trying to predict how the other party may respond. I tell her to stop having the conversation in her head and have it with her partner already. That's where the answers are.
    She's been working on this, though, over the years.

    She does have depression/anxiety, which likely exacerbates the analysis paralysis and the drive to dismiss her own needs.

    Since picking up on social cues or emotional impressions/behavior patterns aren't her strongest suit, she has a tendency to miss red flags in her partners for awhile, as well. This is something she's been improving on, too.


    I'm just thinking off the top of my head. May add more, later. Maybe I'll ask her directly if she has anything to contribute. I'm seeing her tomorrow.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  4. #144
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    Not sure if my past relationships qualify because of poor compatibility to begin with... but I found that they were difficult because of needs I were unable to fulfil. They look to me to make them feel better about themselves or boost their ego/social status, and if I dont care about that they become unhappy.

    My most recent ex was very emotional, very needy and thought I was to spend all my every waking moment fixing his problems/insecurities (which were irreparable imo), making him feel better about himself or otherwise doting on him - essentially he needs a nurturing mommy-type to get over mommy issues and childhood trauma.

    There was a loss of respect and care for him overtime and I was told I became callous, uncaring, stoic and insensitive. Which is legit.

  5. #145
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    I am not a female, but I am going to give some comment. The problem of mine is how to express the feeling of love. I have come up with a promising solution to express it by playing music, since love is what musicians are campaigning about. Many of their song that I have heard are about love. The thing is, I'll have to be skilled in playing an instrument.

  6. #146
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    All the women I've dated or been interested in have been NFs or SFs in fact I dont know if I've known any female NTs or STs in person/offline.

    Dont know what it would be like to date one, would probably be interesting.

  7. #147

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    No probs finding relationships, in that they're not actually sought. They've organically happened through meeting people. Frankly, I've enjoyed being single as much as being in a committed relationship for different reasons.

    The challenge is that I'm tough on the outside with a soft inner core that's reserved for people very close to me. Because of this external toughness and independence, it can attract weak males who can't be relied on to support me when I need it the odd time, hence producing a one way street effect of always being the one giving and supporting. And of course, this resulted in me dumping them for incompatibility.

    It took a number of relationships to find the right man. He's not perfect but he's perfect for me. The same holds true in reverse.

  8. #148
    Moderator Yuu's Avatar
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    The gender stereotypes can make things more difficult than I think they need to be.

    In the beginning of my current relationship I did all the cooking and cleaning-stuff I never, EVER wanted to do-out of necessity; husband was at work all day, I wasn't and it needed to be done.

    But my husband has been out of of a job for nearly two years and he still expects that to be MY job ...for some reason.
    " Do something, even if it's wrong."

    " I don't wanna have to but I will, if that's what I'm supposed to do
    We don't wanna set up for the kill, but that's what I'm 'bout to do."

  9. #149
    Senior Member Tina&Jane's Avatar
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    Yes. I'm not sure if I'm an NT or not, but this is an area in my life that I've definitely found challenging, especially when compared to other female friends. When I was younger I thought of it as more having to do with general awkwardness/shyness and a lack of confidence, but as I’ve gotten older and become more comfortable with myself (making social interactions easier), I do notice that I seem to have less of a focus on relationships than other women I know. I’m very much generalizing here, but I’ve noticed that many have viewed relationships (and marriage) as a kind of end goal in life; a point at which they’ve finally “made it” and become more legitimate as a person. And when viewed this way, relationships can become something that is strived for at all costs, where red flags are ignored because the relationship and what it represents becomes more important than the reality of the situation.

    At the root of this “striving for” seems to be a fear of ending up alone and lonely in life, and while I certainly don’t want to feel these things either, I do seem to have a higher tolerance for being on my own, and have tended to focus more on exploring my own interests and doing my own thing. I’ve been less interested in actively dating (e.g. using apps or other websites, taking numbers while out at bars) and tend to be more passive. I’m kind of hoping to just meet someone casually through work, friends, or a mutual hobby. I like the idea of being friends first and then having it morph into a relationship, rather than planning a date and going into to it with all the expectations that go along with that.

  10. #150
    Senior Member StrawberryBoots's Avatar
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    Yes. No.

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