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[Ti] Ti constructs

INTPness

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constructs (the noun, not the verb): an image, idea, or theory, esp. a complex one formed from a number of simpler elements.

Ti develops, forms, tweaks, and analyzes these constructs about a great deal of things in life. Non Ti users often ask us for more information about this - what does it mean? can we give an examples? It's very much an internal process and doesn't quite feel all that natural to "reveal it" (just ask an INFP to tell you their deepest fantasies and see how much information you get ;) ).

But, here is a rather simple one that I've developed since I've learned about MBTI. They can get much more complex than this and they can be in subjects that are much more technical than this example.

I encourage other INTP's and ENTP's to share some of yours if you're comfortable doing so. It could be anything, this is just one I chose randomly in light of some of the recent threads regarding what Ti "looks like". In many cases it tries to take things that are complex and not easily understood and tries to put them into a neat framework that is "pretty darn accurate", although not infallible. Then that framework is always available for quick reference. The framework is very general - we're smart enough to realize (most of the time, anyways :cheese:) that life is complex and can't be reduced to "3 simple rules", nor can life's complexities be shoved into a box. We are outside the box thinkers (as evidenced by some of our wild ideas), but the framework helps us to be efficient. I'd say most of my frameworks are effective for me, using the 80/20 rule. 80% of the time, my existing Ti constructs will be "good enough" to help me understand situations and make "good" and "proper" decisions. 20% of the time, the complexities of people and the world "stump me", leave me baffled and wanting/needing to learn more, leave me looking like an ignorant idiot (which I can usually explain/argue my way out of pretty effectively :blush:), or otherwise show holes in my existing framework/theory.

But, let's admit it, 80% is pretty effective. It means that if I don't know much about a situation, I can rely on my frameworks/constructs to make my decision and I'll be right 80% of the time. When you have to make a decision NOW, 80% sure beats 50%. That's probably why you hear some other types say that INTP's are rarely wrong. I'm not saying that's true (that we're not often wrong), but I've read other types say that about us. Also, the more important the decision is, the more I will delve outside of my framework in order to make a good decision. If it's a huge decision, then I don't want to leave it to the 80/20 rule. 80% isn't a good enough success rate for me - not for the really big decisions. In those cases, I'm digging deeper, gathering more information, and really getting to the bottom of things. In the cases where it's just "fun stuff" or "not super important" or "decisions have to be made quickly", 80/20 is good enough and comes in handy.

First, let me stipulate the following:

It's not something that is set in stone. It is based on personal experience, things I have read and learned from others, and also a bit on intuiton (personal hunch). If I leave intuition out of my constructs and rely simply on pure logic/analysis, it becomes much more rigorous and harder to develop the framework. If I make room for some intuition, then I can include a lot more "stuff" into my body of information.

It was much different (less developed because of less information) several years ago than it is now. I'm sure it will be somewhat different a year from now than it is now.

So, here goes. It's just something that's clear in my head and, if I were to transfer it to paper, it would probably ends up looking something like this - sort of like an outline with notes. Don't be offended if something is negative to your type. Just like Te, it does tend to be critical (but, critical with a purpose in mind).

MBTI types that I would probably be compatible with, or, what I can expect to experience when getting involved with someone or meeting someone new:

I. NF's (have had personal success with this group. They have liked me and I have liked them, generally speaking. Kind of get the feeling that we compliment each other well, or "complete each other" in a sense).
Subtypes:
A. ENFJ
Pro's:
-great "team concept" exists in the relationship; we're in it together
-very loyal to me and will appreciate my loyalty in return
-can tolerate my Ne pretty well
Con's:
-Can be a little too controlling for my tastes
-will try to tell me what is best for me
-probably won't like it when I push back and tell them to get off my back; conflict sets in when I don't conform

B. ENFP
Pro's:
-tremendous fun; we can laugh all day
-seem to "get me" as well as anybody; it will be easy for me to be myself
-will probably enjoy each other's company most of the time
Con's:
-take what they say with a grain of salt; they can be flaky
-might get bored with my introversion and seek out novelty in the relationship
-might expect more time with me than I'm willing to give

C. INFJ
Pro's:
-smart, intuitive, caring
-like ENFJ's, could probably tolerate my Ne fairly well
-need a lot more information on this type, haven't come across many IRL
Con's:
-from what I've heard, their idealism can lead them to get tired of "the same ol' relationship", making them want to experience something new.
-from what I've heard, can be emotionally manipulative. Knowing myself, that won't go over very well if I pick up on it, which I probably will.

D. INFP
Pro's:
-smart, unique, classy individuals
-shared Ne makes for a great time
-we can discuss real issues and really be on the "same plane" most of the time
Con's:
-want time away from me just as much as I do from them. Will we spend enough time together to sustain a relationship?
-very, very slow and potentially long process of opening up and getting close
-a little bit flighty/unreliable/non-transparent. This can translate into not really knowing what they are up to in their personal lives. Will I find out 1 year from now that she checked out of the relationship a long time ago?

2. NT's (have a great time with them, incredible mental stimulation - usually too hard-headed and too much like me to be compatible, but - who knows?)

-I won't go into individual types in order to keep this post manageable

3. S's (8 different varieties, but don't care to date them anymore. Not much to talk about over the long haul. However, remember the 80/20 rule. Lightning could strike! Wow, she's cute! Hi. Err, excuse me. Do you know who Albert Einstein is?) :cheese:

So, it could get WAY more complex/detailed than that, but that's kind of the framework that I keep in mind based on everything I've experienced with actual people, read from research, read on these forums, etc.)

xNTP's, share some of your Ti constructs!
 

visaisahero

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Oh god, I don't have the patience for this. Thank you for sharing! My thoughts are predominantly similar to yours.
 

missfixit

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This is funny, since I am Ti and I use the same sort of organizing in my head..

But for your particular example, I have eliminated NFs and SJs from my compatibility rankings, and am left with either fellow SPs (yee haw!!) or NTs, which I "get" pretty easily. lol

But I have an example that is unrelated to MBTI, and I wonder if other people think in this circular fashion..(SPs tend to have great difficulty with making career decisions, so it gives you a window into STP thinking :)) :

1. I need a new career. Old one (engineer) is dead, for the following reasons:
-been too long out of the field
- jobs in that field are almost nonexistent right now because of economy, especially if you don't have lots of years in one specialty
- it is a boring job anyway. :)

2. New career has constraints. Constraints are the following:
-must pay above poverty wages, because I have kids to support
- must pay enough to afford daycare for three children all summer long, when they are out of school, OR, must have summers off
-has to be in this area since kids are settled now

3. I am qualified to teach math and science, and that would give me summers off. Only problem is poverty wages. (and the fact that being a teacher makes my SP-self break out in hives. But this consideration has to be set aside, because I do what I must.)

4. Could be a technical writer. If I could work from home this would be great. (although again, being an SP makes "working from home" an extremely dangerous proposition. No time management and completely undisciplined)

5. Nursing? No, that's nights and weekends, impossible schedule with kids.

6. God, I wonder if I should try harder to get back into engineering? (start over again at the top)

Then, after I have gone in this Ti loop over and over again, I decide that I can't possibly make a decision, so I'll just take steps in all directions at once, and "SEE WHAT HAPPENS".

So far the only avenue that has opened up is teaching, so that's what I'm going with. I don't think I can stay in teaching forever (OMG, grading papers and having to actually give a crap about grades, tests, etc. I won't last long) -- but at least I'm doing something. :)

Then I feel tired and need to get some margarita mix. woot!
 

INTPness

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This is funny, since I am Ti and I use the same sort of organizing in my head..

But for your particular example, I have eliminated NFs and SJs from my compatibility rankings, and am left with either fellow SPs (yee haw!!) or NTs, which I "get" pretty easily. lol

But I have an example that is unrelated to MBTI, and I wonder if other people think in this circular fashion..(SPs tend to have great difficulty with making career decisions, so it gives you a window into STP thinking :)) :

1. I need a new career. Old one (engineer) is dead, for the following reasons:
-been too long out of the field
- jobs in that field are almost nonexistent right now because of economy, especially if you don't have lots of years in one specialty
- it is a boring job anyway. :)

2. New career has constraints. Constraints are the following:
-must pay above poverty wages, because I have kids to support
- must pay enough to afford daycare for three children all summer long, when they are out of school, OR, must have summers off
-has to be in this area since kids are settled now

3. I am qualified to teach math and science, and that would give me summers off. Only problem is poverty wages. (and the fact that being a teacher makes my SP-self break out in hives. But this consideration has to be set aside, because I do what I must.)

4. Could be a technical writer. If I could work from home this would be great. (although again, being an SP makes "working from home" an extremely dangerous proposition. No time management and completely undisciplined)

5. Nursing? No, that's nights and weekends, impossible schedule with kids.

6. God, I wonder if I should try harder to get back into engineering? (start over again at the top)

Then, after I have gone in this Ti loop over and over again, I decide that I can't possibly make a decision, so I'll just take steps in all directions at once, and "SEE WHAT HAPPENS".

So far the only avenue that has opened up is teaching, so that's what I'm going with. I don't think I can stay in teaching forever (OMG, grading papers and having to actually give a crap about grades, tests, etc. I won't last long) -- but at least I'm doing something. :)

Then I feel tired and need to get some margarita mix. woot!

I do that too sometimes. Just thinking through things over and over.

But, the "construct" or "frameworks" that I'm talking about are things that help us (Ti users) to deal effectively with the outside world with limited information. So, in the example I used in my OP, let's say I started dating an ENFJ. I have to be careful not to live within the construct itself - I want to "live life" and not be a robot (and not treat her like a robot), but there is a highly accurate framework already in place that shows me what the obstacles/trouble areas are likely to be. The construct has become part of my psyche (it's not something I have to think much about - it's just there). So, while I'm taking the relationship with the ENFJ day-by-day (and letting it unfold as naturally as I know how), I also know instinctively - because of the framework - that she might start to be controlling at some point. That's something I'm looking for before it even happens. Then, when it does happen (probably 80% of the time or more), I can deal with it effectively. As soon as that behavior rears its head, I can call out the problem and talk about it with her. I can say something like, "You know, I just want you to know from the very beginning of this friendship/relationship that I don't do well when people try to get me to conform to their ways of thinking or when they basically try to control me. If that's something that you've had problems with in the past, then just monitor that with me because I can guarantee that it will cause big problems between us." Or I can say to myself, "Yes, I've seen signs of controlling issues, but it's not that bad. She seems aware of it and she also does a great job of dealing with all of my character flaws. I think we can move forward and see where this goes. It's working pretty well so far.

Then, she knows my stance very early on in the relationship. We don't have to spend years wandering around and trying to figure out why we're having difficulties, etc.

The construct serves as a kind of "efficiency of movement" or "efficiency of energy". I've never thought of it like this before, but it's almost like a "prototype". It sounds robotic, but it's like I've already run a simulation in my head for the current situation - before I ever got in the situation. So now that I'm in the situation, I have a good idea what to expect and what is coming my way - the good, the bad, and the ugly. And when things pop up, I already know how to deal with it.

Again, it's not foolproof - people and the world do surprise us from time to time. But, most of the constructs (if they've been developed over time and with accurate information) are reliable and usually hold true.
 

missfixit

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oh i see what you mean.

Is Ti going to be the same for you as it would for me? Because honestly I don't do those types of "forward looking" frameworks so much. I tend to be so focused on what is currently around me. I do collect information like an NT, but I don't think I'm using it like that..

my boyfriend is ENTJ and he does this all the time. It's like he knows what's going to happen...I can't do that. He knows me so well he can predict my reaction to any given situation and it amazes me.

On the other hand, I am more resourceful than him sometimes. I don't run these "simulations" ahead of time -- I launch myself at something and react on the fly.

I'm not sure how I am using Ti then, if it's not for future purposes. Every time I say to my boyfriend "hey I've been thinking"...he says "Oh sh*t." ;P
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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I'm a huge fan of running scenarios in my mind before actually excuting them for that very reason. I need to have at least an idea of what can happen before it does so I alter some variables here and there and run through logical ways conversations could play out because of decisions I make. Though I always take into account that 20% that I don't know which keeps me on my toes. I'm glad you described your thinking process as such. I can use it now in explaining my own.
 

INTPness

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oh i see what you mean.

Is Ti going to be the same for you as it would for me? Because honestly I don't do those types of "forward looking" frameworks so much. I tend to be so focused on what is currently around me. I do collect information like an NT, but I don't think I'm using it like that..

my boyfriend is ENTJ and he does this all the time. It's like he knows what's going to happen...I can't do that. He knows me so well he can predict my reaction to any given situation and it amazes me.

On the other hand, I am more resourceful than him sometimes. I don't run these "simulations" ahead of time -- I launch myself at something and react on the fly.

I'm not sure how I am using Ti then, if it's not for future purposes. Every time I say to my boyfriend "hey I've been thinking"...he says "Oh sh*t." ;P


I was thinking more about your first post and, yeah, I definitely do that a lot. I make lists of the logical order I need to follow in order to get something accomplished. I do it so that I can see the logical sequence that I need to follow and I can also think about steps I might be missing. So I think what you posted is definitely a Ti thing - mapping things out in logical order.

To answer your questions, I think "N" is future oriented while "S" is mostly "here and now", as you mentioned is the case with you. My Ti is probably a lot like the ISTP Ti, except for Ne makes me want to "peek into the future" as much as possible and think about how I can be prepared as much as possible for what is coming tomorrow or in 10 years.

But, INTP's also like to "take things as they come", believe it or not. That's part of our "P" function. We tend to be very laid back and kind of "let life come to us". We're prepared mentally for a lot of different scenarios, but I don't plan stuff out too much because I know that by the time I plan everything out for the next week, things are going to change. Variables change day-to-day. I get frustrated with my ISTJ grandfather sometimes because he wants every single thing planned out, weeks (even months) in advance. He'll take out his pocket calendar and a pen and say, "You're flying to Florida next month on the 23rd. What time is your flight?"

I'll say, "Grandpa, I never said it was on the 23rd. I haven't even bought my ticket yet. I said that's the day that will probably work best, but I'll have to see how things go in the coming weeks before I can make that decision. I want to see how things unfold." He'll say, "well, when will you know?" "I dunno...once things unfold!" :shock: He's more uptight about the time of my flight than I am about my own flight. So, yeah, I totally see what you mean about "just letting things come to you".

What's interesting is that I have a good ISTP friend and he and I have NEVER talked about this kind of stuff. We don't "show" our Ti to each other, nor do we talk about it. Since it's an introverted function, it mostly goes unnoticed. So, it was interesting to hear that you kind of think in a similar way. I usually just see the Se of ISTP's and they usually just see my Ne. We don't really ask questions about what's going on in our heads.
 

INTPness

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Oh god, I don't have the patience for this. Thank you for sharing! My thoughts are predominantly similar to yours.

Come on, visa! Give us one of your Ti constructs. I know you're into music. Maybe you've thought a lot about, and have a construct for, what "the ideal band" would be. Maybe it includes a couple electric guitars, a flute player, and 3 girls dancing on stage with pom poms. Put it out there! Even if it's a relatively lame topic. It doesn't have to be rocket science - nobody would want to read that anyways.
 

INTPness

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I'm a huge fan of running scenarios in my mind before actually excuting them for that very reason. I need to have at least an idea of what can happen before it does so I alter some variables here and there and run through logical ways conversations could play out because of decisions I make. Though I always take into account that 20% that I don't know which keeps me on my toes. I'm glad you described your thinking process as such. I can use it now in explaining my own.

Oh yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. The 20% "unknown" is something I'm always "aware of". I'm aware of the holes in my theory/construct and I'm aware of "what I haven't yet taken into account" or don't have enough information on. And when those things come up, I'm not surprised. I might be a little less sure of how to proceed, but I knew it was a possibility and I'm quite capable of winging it.

Being NP's, we're pretty good at responding "as things happen" anyways, so it's OK if things don't go EXACTLY according to plan. Most of my constructs cover the basics of "what will probably happen."

It's like drawing a big circle and then saying, "I know the dart is going to land SOMEWHERE within this cirlce". Rarely does it land outside of the circle and, when it does, that's OK too because we'll just adjust and respond accordingly - and then go back and tweak the construct as needed.

There are those rare times where the dart lands WAY out of the circle though and I'm kind of "stumped". We're good at handling curve balls, but sometimes the pitcher will surprise you and throw right at your head.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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Also, without the 20% of not knowing what's going to happen our constructs wouldn't change much, at least through experiences, so I usually gladly welcome not knowing so I can learn what I need to know from it.
 

2XtremeENFP

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Do tell! If Justin can bring sexy back, we can bring Ti back. :shock:

Erughhh I always struggle with this, I really think that what everyone is describing is how I think (whenever I'm not relying on my Fi...), but then again, I still don't think I fully grasp the difference between Ti and Te.

It seems like how you broke it down seemed very organized and like If->then statements, isn't that how Te would work too? Organized Step-by-step?

How you explained it seemed like an outline one would use to write a paper, which is how I think. Main point, and then blah blah blah to support.

I always thought Ti was jumbled and not so linear looking?
 

INTPness

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Erughhh I always struggle with this, I really think that what everyone is describing is how I think (whenever I'm not relying on my Fi...), but then again, I still don't think I fully grasp the difference between Ti and Te.

It seems like how you broke it down seemed very organized and like If->then statements, isn't that how Te would work too? Organized Step-by-step?

How you explained it seemed like an outline one would use to write a paper, which is how I think. Main point, and then blah blah blah to support.

I always thought Ti was jumbled and not so linear looking?

Te users "speak out" their thinking - clearly - to the outside world. They think through things while they are conversating. Talking it out, explaining, directing, organizing, etc is how they "think through things". I know some ESTJ's that are capable of thinking on their own, but they aren't nearly as effective alone as when they are around others - and they don't seem to like it much. They want to be directing and talking things out with someone. I even know one that gets really stir crazy if he's alone for a few hours. It's because he has nobody to bounce his ideas and strategies off of. When he's alone, he's unable to use Te the way it's meant to be used - in an extroverted way, with a focus on the outer world. It's strange for me to watch actually. It's almost like the one time in life where he starts to almost look helpless or lost.

Ti is all of this that we're discussing, but it's mostly directed internally. It helps/aids with outside things, but the thinking itself is most effective when it's done privately and without a lot of distractions. Ever noticed that sometimes when you ask an INTP about something you sometimes get a response that makes you go, "Uhhh, what did he just say?" That happens when we feel rushed - it takes us time and a lot of thought to "translate" what we see so clearly in our minds into actual words that reflect those thoughts to other people.

Te users can do it instantaneously. Ask them a question and you get an answer. Right now. Ask a Ti user a question that is somewhat complex (not just a 'yes/no' question like, 'did you eat lunch yet'?) and if we feel rushed or if the dialogue is moving quickly then you will probably get a "half-baked" answer that doesn't truly reflect our internal thoughts/constructs. But, sit down with us and show real interest or actually ask our advice and you will get an answer that reflects our thoughts much more accurately. Even then, it may be hard for us.

The absolute best way that you can get our thoughts is to say, "Hey, think about this tonight when you go home and get back to me tomorrow. I need some good input and I'd like your thoughts." Or, "give this some thought and if you think you can find a solution, shoot me an e-mail explaining what you think is the best approach." Then, we can sit privately and think clearly.

When I'm by myself, my thought process is like a mighty, free-flowing river. When I'm dialoguing with someone who I don't know well or if the dialogue is rapid, my thought process is more like a lawn sprinkler. You're going to get some glimpses of what I'm thinking, but it tends to be very "choppy" and Ne makes it even more scattered. That's one of the reasons that lots of interaction can wear us out. It requires a lot of energy to "think about what's in our head, then think about if it would be wise to say that to the person we are currently talking to, then make adjustments if we think it needs changes, then try to say it (all the while fighting off Ne's desire to start talking about something else).
 

missfixit

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I was thinking more about your first post and, yeah, I definitely do that a lot. I make lists of the logical order I need to follow in order to get something accomplished. I do it so that I can see the logical sequence that I need to follow and I can also think about steps I might be missing. So I think what you posted is definitely a Ti thing - mapping things out in logical order.

To answer your questions, I think "N" is future oriented while "S" is mostly "here and now", as you mentioned is the case with you. My Ti is probably a lot like the ISTP Ti, except for Ne makes me want to "peek into the future" as much as possible and think about how I can be prepared as much as possible for what is coming tomorrow or in 10 years.

What's interesting is that I have a good ISTP friend and he and I have NEVER talked about this kind of stuff. We don't "show" our Ti to each other, nor do we talk about it. Since it's an introverted function, it mostly goes unnoticed. So, it was interesting to hear that you kind of think in a similar way. I usually just see the Se of ISTP's and they usually just see my Ne. We don't really ask questions about what's going on in our heads.

I've been thinking some more since my last post here too (hahaha)...

I spend such in incredible amount of time in my own head, lost to the world, that I thought I might be INTP. But I think I'm too much of a hands-on Se person, and I'm just not interested in possibilities as much as what is...I'm definitely an ISTP, but the Ti is hardcore!
I do wonder if all of my constant thinking is getting me anywhere sometimes, since it's not like I'm ever prepared for the future. lol I think, instead of these forward-thinking constructs, I am running a sort of programming language in my head at all times, in order to deal with a problem I face.
You know, using computer language... you logically map out all the possibilities, and then you run an if/then loop -- If x, then y, else z"

The If/THEN loops are always running for me... but they just aren't far reaching. They don't go into next year, they run through one day at a time.

Ti is definitely not something that anyone on the outside will see, or even know about you...unless you are really close to someone who forces you to show it.

In my relationship with the ENTJ, I was regularly forced to show my Ti. He would present a problem or question, demand that I make up my mind, and I would be forced into 24 hour seclusion so I could think like a madman (madwoman?), burn through all of my loops and then "present" my answers or arguments to him. Once I did that a few times he "knew" me very well --can even guess what I'm thinking. And he knows by the look on my face now when my mind is churning about something.

The best compliment I ever got was from him. He said "You're a very powerful thinker."
:p
 

Serge

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Te users "speak out" their thinking - clearly - to the outside world. They think through things while they are conversating. Talking it out, explaining, directing, organizing, etc is how they "think through things". I know some ESTJ's that are capable of thinking on their own, but they aren't nearly as effective alone as when they are around others - and they don't seem to like it much. They want to be directing and talking things out with someone. I even know one that gets really stir crazy if he's alone for a few hours. It's because he has nobody to bounce his ideas and strategies off of. When he's alone, he's unable to use Te the way it's meant to be used - in an extroverted way, with a focus on the outer world. It's strange for me to watch actually. It's almost like the one time in life where he starts to almost look helpless or lost.


Maybe it's because I have my Te paired with Ni or perhaps it's because I don't have Te at all, but I don't find myself nor the INTJs (Entjs do it, slightly) I know acting in such a manner. I do my best thinking when I'm introduced to a subject I really want to get involved in, and then being left alone with it. Interacting with other people typically causes me to get distracted (And explaining to them what I'm thinking tends to be a bitch) I, myself, tend to organize my thoughts so that my actions are my efficient and such, but I don't tend to take organization to some esoteric level where I must control everything!

Ti is all of this that we're discussing, but it's mostly directed internally. It helps/aids with outside things, but the thinking itself is most effective when it's done privately and without a lot of distractions. Ever noticed that sometimes when you ask an INTP about something you sometimes get a response that makes you go, "Uhhh, what did he just say?" That happens when we feel rushed - it takes us time and a lot of thought to "translate" what we see so clearly in our minds into actual words that reflect those thoughts to other people.
From what I've seen and experienced, INTJs, INFJs, INFPs, and INTPs tend to have that slight delay in response, at times. I would have thought that Ti would be better at enunciating an coherent answer because it is so logical, as compared to Ni. I wonder, just a thought, how does Fe/Ti work? And Ti/Se for the few individuals who are actually fully developed and have those functions.
Te users can do it instantaneously. Ask them a question and you get an answer. Right now. Ask a Ti user a question that is somewhat complex (not just a 'yes/no' question like, 'did you eat lunch yet'?) and if we feel rushed or if the dialogue is moving quickly then you will probably get a "half-baked" answer that doesn't truly reflect our internal thoughts/constructs. But, sit down with us and show real interest or actually ask our advice and you will get an answer that reflects our thoughts much more accurately. Even then, it may be hard for us.
I think that instant answer might be more of a "Ni" thing than Te. I've had various instances where I gave the, albeit correct, answer but had no way to explain it. Of course it came later, but at the current moment, it was likely that I flipped a coin before hand and said "Let's do this one!" The most I respond to this post, the less I think I'm an INTJ =/


The absolute best way that you can get our thoughts is to say, "Hey, think about this tonight when you go home and get back to me tomorrow. I need some good input and I'd like your thoughts." Or, "give this some thought and if you think you can find a solution, shoot me an e-mail explaining what you think is the best approach." Then, we can sit privately and think clearly.
I just thought that that was being a decent person and giving you time to think, doesn't everyone need that? I can give you my first interpretation of a situation, but I most likely won't give you the right one unless I have time to think.

When I'm by myself, my thought process is like a mighty, free-flowing river. When I'm dialoguing with someone who I don't know well or if the dialogue is rapid, my thought process is more like a lawn sprinkler. You're going to get some glimpses of what I'm thinking, but it tends to be very "choppy" and Ne makes it even more scattered. That's one of the reasons that lots of interaction can wear us out. It requires a lot of energy to "think about what's in our head, then think about if it would be wise to say that to the person we are currently talking to, then make adjustments if we think it needs changes, then try to say it (all the while fighting off Ne's desire to start talking about something else).
Overall, I liked your post! Sorry, if my response seems a bit terse and infactual
 

INTPness

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You know, using computer language... you logically map out all the possibilities, and then you run an if/then loop -- If x, then y, else z".

The If/THEN loops are always running for me... but they just aren't far reaching. They don't go into next year, they run through one day at a time.

OK, I'm curious. If your mapping of things doesn't go further than "today", then how do you deal with the things in life such as:

If I don't work hard and get my finances in order this year, then next year (or in 5 years), I'll still be having the same problems that I am today.

Or, if I go to class today then that will help me learn more and get a better grade, which will mean a better grade point average, which will mean more job prospects in 4 years when I graduate."

I know an ISFP who I was talking to about this very thing. And she basically said, "I just don't do that. I don't even know how to do that. I just can't think about the future like that. It gives me a headache. I just live for today, for this moment."

It makes me wonder why she ever went to college. I went to college because of the future I thought it would give me (whether it gave me that future is questionable, but I was young and didn't know better). But, why would someone like her even bother going to college? She's not doing it for the future, because she doesn't think about the future. So, is it more like, "college is fun, so I think I'll sign up"? Then I wonder what made her persevere for 4 years and actually graduate (I think it took her more like 7, just like me).

Do you see what I'm asking? I make decisions based on the fact that I know it will make my life better or more enjoyable tomorrow and in the future. I do things in order to shape a better future. I do see one potential problem for people like me, however. When we actually get to the future, maybe we'll still be "looking to the future" instead of enjoying the now. So, there are good things about both personalities: it's good to enjoy today as much as possible, but it's also wise to make sure you do today what will help you tomorrow.

But, I do see my ISTP friend (and the ISFP) getting themselves into situations where they forgot about the consequences of tomorrow and then it causes problems for them. Like they plan on working today, but then something fun and interesting comes up and so they say, "I'll do the work tonight." Then as the night comes, they say, "I'm tired from today. Let's just go out to dinner." Then tomorrow comes and people are looking at them like, "why didn't you get that stuff done like you were supposed to?" And they have that look on their face like the big problem that they have now isn't even something that crossed their mind. They didn't even think about the fact that when tomorrow came, it was going to be a huge problem that they didn't get their work done."
 

INTPness

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From what I've seen and experienced, INTJs, INFJs, INFPs, and INTPs tend to have that slight delay in response, at times.

Yeah, I think the INxx's have that in common. It's because our thoughts/feelings/intuition is directed inwardly. For the extroverts, whose energy is naturally directed "outward", the "delay" isn't nearly as long. Have you ever been in a conversation with a bunch of extroverts and the conversation is very rapid and it almost becomes difficult to keep up with, so you just kind of "give up" after a while? That happens to me.

I would have thought that Ti would be better at enunciating an coherent answer because it is so logical, as compared to Ni.

Well, Ti (when given patience, or when "calm" and under control) has the ability to speak very well. I've given speeches at a few events and people really enjoyed what I had to say. But, I spent hours preparing a general outline of what I was going to say. And even while I'm speaking, there are times where I pause in order to "let it come to me". I can't just get up there and go, "First A, then B, then C. Thanks for coming, hope you all enjoyed the speech." There's a lot of pondering, processing, and thinking while I am speaking. It can be very intense and draining, but also very enjoyable.


I just thought that that was being a decent person and giving you time to think, doesn't everyone need that? I can give you my first interpretation of a situation, but I most likely won't give you the right one unless I have time to think.

The ESTJ's that I know (just as one example, I could include ESTP's and others as well) really do not take much time to think about what they are about to say. Since they are very "what you see is what you get", and because their extroverted energy is automatically focused OUTWARD, there's not much to think about. I've been told by ESTJ's when they ask me a question that I'm thinking too much. "Just give your answer! Don't think!" Well, it doesn't work that way for me. I have to think about it, then I have to consciously "extrovert it" out of my mouth (and that sometimes doesn't come out exactly how I had hoped). If you listen to 2 ESTJ's in a conversation, you're not likely to hear things like, "I don't know, I'll have to ponder that for a while." They just tell you what they think right there on the spot (very rapid fire dialogue) and they feed off each other's energy/dialogue. It's fast and it's to the point. The INxx's are the ones who "need to go sit under an apple tree for a few hours to think about things". Not everyone needs that time or even wants it. I'm not saying that ESTJ's don't ever need to think things over, but hopefully the distinction is clear. Some extroverts just don't need time to "think things through" like introverts do.
 

missfixit

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OK, I'm curious. If your mapping of things doesn't go further than "today", then how do you deal with the things in life such as:

If I don't work hard and get my finances in order this year, then next year (or in 5 years), I'll still be having the same problems that I am today.

Or, if I go to class today then that will help me learn more and get a better grade, which will mean a better grade point average, which will mean more job prospects in 4 years when I graduate."

Yes, this is the really frustrating thing about ISTP. We can't really plan for the future very well.
For instance, I did go to engineering school. Only because I had nothing better to do and I thought maybe engineer would be a "fun" job. Unfortunately I could not keep my eyes on the future goal, and so I got poor grades and screwed around, and ended up with a GPA that wasn't so awesome. Then i had trouble finding that "cool job" that i originally wanted.

I kneecap myself like that ALL THE TIME. It is frustrating. I am a problem solver and deep thinker but it doesn't translate into future results, or productivity.

That's why I often feel useless. Brain is churning, i have lots of ideas or things i want to do, but then i flame out or get bored...and it's over.
"Man I could totally build that space shuttle, let me get my drill---
OOOH! cake!!"
:doh:
 

entropie

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Ti construct - Bar Stool GTX 2000 - for the lazy alcoholic:

barstool-dui.jpg
 
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