[ENTP] ENTP: Its all in the mind.

[Drezoryx]

So i was reading up on functions with focus on entp's. what seemed striking was that they take an onslaught of info without focus all at once which overwhelms those with undeveloped Ti.

Something like a camera sensor directly exposed to the environment. After this they process info based on the level of development/consciousness of the Ti function.

So i was wondering if Ne can be fed from the subconscious, which would mean that this type truly can create his heaven or hell sitting at the same place without external stimulation with the help of Ti.

Which positively means that stress of anykind is totally under the control of a matured/developed ENTP.

and quite possible out of control for an undeveloped ENTP making him a puppet of the environment.

What do you guys think here?

 

[Lily Bart]

My (albeit limited) experience with ENXP types is that they do not take in raw information in the way that you describe -- my impression is that the information they take in tends to be heavily edited from the very start based on what they want to see, believe, feel, think. I guess what I'm saying is that they have an idea first, and then (possibly unless very mature) tend to selectively focus only on externalities that support their idea. If anything, ENXP types seem to me to be more a puppet of their internal environment.

 

[Lady_X]

ughh...god that it isn't true is it?

 

[Jaguar]

ughh...god that it isn't true is it?

Considering there are no two human brains exactly alike, you decide.

 

[Lady_X]

maybe i like my innards controlling things anyway!

 

[Shimmy]

Considering there are no two human brains exactly alike, you decide.

This!

As for the OP, I think you described pretty much every type and attributed this general human behaviour to ENTPs in specific. Furthermore, your post is a rainbow ruse!

 

[Johnfloyd6675]

So i was wondering if Ne can be fed from the subconscious, which would mean that this type truly can create his heaven or hell sitting at the same place without external stimulation with the help of Ti.

Jung defined intuition as "perception via the unconscious." To be sure, ENTPs have been known to get themselves in trouble by not Thinking when they should have, but I don't think that we "create our own heaven or hell" without external stimulation (unless you mean Guantanamo-style sensory deprivation, which wouldn't go over well with an ENTP). You are absolutely right, however, that an undeveloped Ti leaves us a puppet of our own environment, or at any rate, un-Thinking ENTPs misadventure their way into very unfriendly environments indeed. Imagine a 12-year-old with the keys to his dad's Maserati (the Ne).

Of course, it's possible for Fe to develop a near- or actual equivalence with Ti in highly social ENTPs, and in those cases (which are, for all intents and purposes, ENFPs who make more puns during their monologues) the weakness of Ti seems to be offset either by the anchoring of the Fe or by the guidance of other people ("don't invest all your money in that, sir, that's a pyramid scheme").

But yes, Ti keeps us sharp. Were I a psychiatrist, I'd theatrically write a subscription to the Economist to all my ENTP patients. I believe that exposure to thoughtful commentary about the real world is exactly what the doctor ordered for this type. For ENTPs, Ti must be an effective bullshit detector more than a formulator of grand theories. Ne does that pretty loudly for us.

My (albeit limited) experience with ENXP types is that they do not take in raw information in the way that you describe -- my impression is that the information they take in tends to be heavily edited from the very start based on what they want to see, believe, feel, think.

That sounds broadly correct to me. After taking a battery of cognitive tests once, the psychometrist remarked at the peculiarity of my long-term memory: "it's like you have a photographic memory, but only for information that's meaningful to you." Next she started on about the atrocious state of my short-term memory but I have no recollection of her comments.

 

[Drezoryx]

Neither what im saying is general to all types(shimmy), nor what im saying is so specific that it would be everyman for himself (jaguar) I should have quoted my source for the Camera Sensor analogy i think.. here it is...

Through these filters the outer world is incepted for us. Thus, an Extroverted Perceiver tends to be flexible in his perceptions, yet the Extroverted Judger tends to incept the environment in terms of the pre-existing concrete symbols. As we notice that the Extroverted Judgers tend to rely much more on the pre-established terms for their understanding of ideas. As for instance, it is very common for a Judger to say that they could not imagine the concept of yellow without the word yellow, yet very uncommon for a dominant Extroverted perceiver to make the same claim. For this reason, we shall argue that the Extroverted perceivers, with a slight exception in favor of Introverted Perceivers, tend to collect the soundest information. The Extroverted Perceiver is different from the Introverted Perceiver in the respect that he confronts the external environment directly, whilst the Introverted perceiver must first filter the environment through the apparatus of his own inner perceptions and then shift onto the Extroverted Judgment in order to make a decision. And only at that point he will be able to interact with the outer environment. Because of this, the Introverted perceivers tend to be the least spontaneous, as their access to the outer environment is contingent upon their inner perceptions which are remote from the immediate environment. Yet, the Extroverted perceivers, by contrast, which could be rightly deemed as an animus to the Introverted Perceivers tend to be the most spontaneous. As aforementioned, the reason for this is that they do not require contemplation for direct action, as their perceptions are always in tune with the outer world. In this regard they are even more action oriented than the dominant Extroverted Judging types, who require a plan of action, or external decisions in order to turn their wheels. Yet the Extroverted Perceiver deals with the outer world unconsciously, as the perceiving functions are by definition unconscious. Thus, here again we notice that the EP type requires least contemplation to prepare for action of all 4. This leads to the sense of quickness the EP types tend to be renowned for. We should note that Extroverted perception can very easily be misunderstood for hyperactivity and inherent inability to focus because information tends to be incepted into the mind of an EP in a torrential fashion. As there is no grid of extroverted judgment in the outer world of the EP.

 

[Katsuni]

"don't invest all your money in that, sir, that's a pyramid scheme".

Just had to put this in here ^^

 

[alakazam]

"it's like you have a photographic memory, but only for information that's meaningful to you."

This is so very much me.

Also, when it comes to sensory... I haven't figured out just what it is that makes me notice something, but I can tell someone all about the behavior and associations of all the people in any given room, but I can't for the life of me tell you what color uniform the person I see every day wears or tell you the difference between platinum blonde and black hair, unless it's mentioned (and, of course, it's meaningful)

 

[Drezoryx]

Jung defined intuition as "perception via the unconscious." To be sure, ENTPs have been known to get themselves in trouble by not Thinking when they should have, but I don't think that we "create our own heaven or hell" without external stimulation (unless you mean Guantanamo-style sensory deprivation, which wouldn't go over well with an ENTP). You are absolutely right, however, that an undeveloped Ti leaves us a puppet of our own environment, or at any rate, un-Thinking ENTPs misadventure their way into very unfriendly environments indeed. Imagine a 12-year-old with the keys to his dad's Maserati (the Ne).

Of course, it's possible for Fe to develop a near- or actual equivalence with Ti in highly social ENTPs, and in those cases (which are, for all intents and purposes, ENFPs who make more puns during their monologues) the weakness of Ti seems to be offset either by the anchoring of the Fe or by the guidance of other people ("don't invest all your money in that, sir, that's a pyramid scheme").

But yes, Ti keeps us sharp. Were I a psychiatrist, I'd theatrically write a subscription to the Economist to all my ENTP patients. I believe that exposure to thoughtful commentary about the real world is exactly what the doctor ordered for this type. For ENTPs, Ti must be an effective bullshit detector more than a formulator of grand theories. Ne does that pretty loudly for us.



That sounds broadly correct to me. After taking a battery of cognitive tests once, the psychometrist remarked at the peculiarity of my long-term memory: "it's like you have a photographic memory, but only for information that's meaningful to you." Next she started on about the atrocious state of my short-term memory but I have no recollection of her comments.

1. Regarding Jung, If you feed that Ne consciously what do you get? Whatever you want to believe in!

2. undeveloped entps are great at ignoring other people'd advise due to lack of Fe. Ofcourse if they pay more attention then this works!

3. i like that magazine :hi:

4. Thats precisely because of Jungs definition in your opening sentence. now imagine if you control it by feeding Ne consciously. You would remember what you want to not what your subconscious tilts towards.

 

[Katsuni]

"it's like you have a photographic memory, but only for information that's meaningful to you."

Oh I'd missed that quote... and yeah that very much is me as well XD

I have like absolutely ZERO memory for things that I don't find important to remember... seriously it's like 5 seconds or less usually. I can be in mid sentence and forget whot I was saying >.>

Ask me whot I did 5 minutes ago. I have no idea. I keep chatlogs of EVERYTHING I do online... it's the only way I can keep track of anything XD

But ask me something I deem important enough to know, and I can tell yeu easily, liiiiiiike I can explain the difference between inverse kinematics and forward kinematics easily, I know the stats of pretty much every single unit in starcraft, stuff like that... yet I can't remember my national anthem. I'm so patriotic. <3

 

[Ardent15]

Oh I'd missed that quote... and yeah that very much is me as well XD

I have like absolutely ZERO memory for things that I don't find important to remember... seriously it's like 5 seconds or less usually. I can be in mid sentence and forget whot I was saying >.>

Ask me whot I did 5 minutes ago. I have no idea. I keep chatlogs of EVERYTHING I do online... it's the only way I can keep track of anything XD

But ask me something I deem important enough to know, and I can tell yeu easily, liiiiiiike I can explain the difference between inverse kinematics and forward kinematics easily, I know the stats of pretty much every single unit in starcraft, stuff like that... yet I can't remember my national anthem. I'm so patriotic. <3

I'm like that as well (even though I'm an INTP).

 

[Fluxkom]

Oh I'd missed that quote... and yeah that very much is me as well XD

I have like absolutely ZERO memory for things that I don't find important to remember... seriously it's like 5 seconds or less usually. I can be in mid sentence and forget whot I was saying >.>

Ask me whot I did 5 minutes ago. I have no idea. I keep chatlogs of EVERYTHING I do online... it's the only way I can keep track of anything XD

But ask me something I deem important enough to know, and I can tell yeu easily, liiiiiiike I can explain the difference between inverse kinematics and forward kinematics easily, I know the stats of pretty much every single unit in starcraft, stuff like that... yet I can't remember my national anthem. I'm so patriotic. <3

I always thought that was true for anyone really

 

[sammy]

Oh I'd missed that quote... and yeah that very much is me as well XD

I have like absolutely ZERO memory for things that I don't find important to remember... seriously it's like 5 seconds or less usually. I can be in mid sentence and forget whot I was saying >.>

Ask me whot I did 5 minutes ago. I have no idea. I keep chatlogs of EVERYTHING I do online... it's the only way I can keep track of anything XD

But ask me something I deem important enough to know, and I can tell yeu easily, liiiiiiike I can explain the difference between inverse kinematics and forward kinematics easily, I know the stats of pretty much every single unit in starcraft, stuff like that... yet I can't remember my national anthem. I'm so patriotic. <3

G'lord! I am just like this, too. Get out of my head!

 

[Asterion]

I always thought that was true for anyone really

Nah, there's plenty of people out there that have real good short term memory. I kinda do the same thing as Kataclysm... NP thing maybe, or unrelated?

 

[Shimmy]

Neither what im saying is general to all types(shimmy), nor what im saying is so specific that it would be everyman for himself (jaguar) I should have quoted my source for the Camera Sensor analogy i think.. here it is...

Okay, here's how I see it:

So i was reading up on functions with focus on entp's. what seemed striking was that they take an onslaught of info without focus all at once which overwhelms those with undeveloped Ti.

Something like a camera sensor directly exposed to the environment. After this they process info based on the level of development/consciousness of the Ti function.

Everybody who takes up more information than they can process gets stressed. All my friends have this when they have to study for say, an exam. I'm no worse or better then anybody.

So i was wondering if Ne can be fed from the subconscious, which would mean that this type truly can create his heaven or hell sitting at the same place without external stimulation with the help of Ti.

Taking myself as an example, when there is no outside stimulus, I don't create heaven or hell for myself. I can think of negative and positive consequences, just like everybody else, but without them actually happening I don't get too emotional about them.

Which positively means that stress of anykind is totally under the control of a matured/developed ENTP.

Here you are saying that ENTPs have the potential to handle lots of stress.

and quite possible out of control for an undeveloped ENTP making him a puppet of the environment.

What do you guys think here?

And here you are saying, that if ENTPs haven't developed the potential to control stress, they will be stressful. Sounds perfectly logical to me, but what does it have to do with ENTPs in particular.

Nah, there's plenty of people out there that have real good short term memory. I kinda do the same thing as Kataclysm... NP thing maybe, or unrelated?

I have an excellent memory. Obviously it's better when it deals with interesting things, but I tend to remember even the most mundane things I did, read, saw or otherwise noticed last week.

 

[Drezoryx]

Okay, here's how I see it:

Everybody who takes up more information than they can process gets stressed. All my friends have this when they have to study for say, an exam. I'm no worse or better then anybody.

the idea is you can be if you are an entp.

Taking myself as an example, when there is no outside stimulus, I don't create heaven or hell for myself. I can think of negative and positive consequences, just like everybody else, but without them actually happening I don't get too emotional about them.

the idea is stimulus can be generated internally to suit the external envirment as per wish!


Here you are saying that ENTPs have the potential to handle lots of stress.

Yes an ENTP can simply choose to ignore whats causing it, the point is the fluidity of his power over the environment


And here you are saying, that if ENTPs haven't developed the potential to control stress, they will be stressful. Sounds perfectly logical to me, but what does it have to do with ENTPs in particular.

No control is with other types, ENTPs can choose to ignore it.

I have an excellent memory. Obviously it's better when it deals with interesting things, but I tend to remember even the most mundane things I did, read, saw or otherwise noticed last week.

The thing is functions are being evaluated here, specifically Ne-Ti, memory is a useful input which shows a bunch of things but possibly not anything which strikes me as interesting at the moment.

The idea in OP is open ended, what the point is to confirm if entps here feel that they could behave that way, or if they already have.

Also from a functions point of view, inputs are welcome.

 

[Drezoryx]

ok i think ive found an interesting link between memory and functions by seeing the inputs here..

what i gather is having Ne dominant we draw connections quickly and probably have a lot of floating point computational power in our brain so once we reach the desired destination in our linking up of ideas we just go "aha" and dont really care about the process by which this happened or the path taken. This is perhaps when Ne is dominating while other functions are working merely to support it. This way entps with less developed Ti forget stuff often like so many posts here describe the working of their memory.. once a bridge is crossed, how it was constructed is forgotten and its burnt and we move to other bridges.

now incase of shimmy he describes his memory as different from other entps here... so either he is not an entp or he has well developed Ti. Lets assume the latter.. so what happens here is Ti breaks down processes and registers what goes on in floating computation in Ne, disadvantage could be slowed processing but the advantage is conscious memory creation of how that process happened. Perhaps those with well developed Ti would have better memories by this explanation by developing more conscious control over it.

 

[tcda]

I think all NT types when they start from a flase premise, can be prone throw up all kinds of formally correct information in the moment which support some internally logical argument which they are attached to, but which don't really correspond to reality.