[NT] How can an NT be stupid?

[goodgrief]

There is an admirable economy to questions that provide their own answer.

It would be nice if you provided any evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying that they are all at least somewhat intelligent, I just want to understand how someone could be dumb with these features. Intuition allows people to understand and produce theories. This could cause someone to come up with a stupid idea yes. I might say, it would be a great idea to teach hamsters to ride motorcycles, but then as an NT my thinking would tell me it is unfeasible as hamsters are very small, not particularly intelligent and their bodies are not designed in the right shape. I want to know how an NT can, for example, not think any intelligent thoughts and not rationalise crazy thoughts. I am open to being proved wrong, but that is not what you have done.

 

[spin-1/2-nuclei]

I know type is supposed to have little effect on intelligence, and I know not all NTs are supergenius's. But seriously, with N giving innovation, abstract thinking, forward thinking and seeing patterns and T giving logical planned decisions and ideals based mostly on what's rational, how can someone honestly be dumb?

Easily... in my opinion being "dumb" is not a result of just one issue it's a manifestation of many. A person can be ignorant, meaning they have the wrong information or no information about a particular subject, which hinders their ability to make the correct associations between cause and effect. So if you combine their ignorance on a variety of subjects with arrogance, laziness, and the inability to ascertain what subjects one is ignorant of and which subjects one is not you get a "dumb" person.

The kind of person that believes their opinions are fact based solely on their grandiose view of themselves and their self perceived ability to think logically. Unfortunately ability without knowledge produces the same - if not worse result - as having no ability at all. So the way I see it ignorant people aren't always "dumb" but having a natural ability with problem solving and critical thinking doesn't guarantee that you won't be either.

 

[Salomé]

It would be nice if you provided any evidence to the contrary.

I'm expected to be both nice AND intelligent, now? Oh, the strain of NTness!
It's a little much to expect me to be stupid just to prove your theory wrong.

Not to mention, redundant.

 

[goodgrief]

Whatever. But it seems a little immature. I'm just asking a question.

And to the other answerers, thank you for the input.

 

[Asterion]

It would be nice if you provided any evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying that they are all at least somewhat intelligent, I just want to understand how someone could be dumb with these features. Intuition allows people to understand and produce theories. This could cause someone to come up with a stupid idea yes. I might say, it would be a great idea to teach hamsters to ride motorcycles, but then as an NT my thinking would tell me it is unfeasible as hamsters are very small, not particularly intelligent and their bodies are not designed in the right shape. I want to know how an NT can, for example, not think any intelligent thoughts and not rationalise crazy thoughts. I am open to being proved wrong, but that is not what you have done.

So you're saying that you've never thought of a crazy idea and just acted upon it? Making blue custard? Frying a guitar string with electricity? Pressing buttons out of sheer curiousity? Smashing a giant vacuum tube with a hammer? Anyone and everyone can be stupid. Logic + imagination can't always simulate the chaos that is reality, sometimes you have to be stupid in order to learn.

 

[Unique]

Most people see me as brilliantly smart

So naturally they are surprised when I tell them I dropped out of school

I can be stupid when it comes to "file cabinet knowledge", but nobody surpasses me in creativity and wisdom

 

[Aleksei]

I know type is supposed to have little effect on intelligence, and I know not all NTs are supergenius's. But seriously, with N giving innovation, abstract thinking, forward thinking and seeing patterns and T giving logical planned decisions and ideals based mostly on what's rational, how can someone honestly be dumb?

Well, type is correlated with intelligence, so we don't know that it's supposed to have little effect. I would say, however, that it's probably the other way around: Intelligence has an effect on type.

Nevertheless, NT combined doesn't automatically make you smarter than everyone else. Statistically, INFs have higher IQs than than ENTs.

 

[Invisiblemonkey]

All this really does is allows for aptitude, you don't -have- to be a genius if you're an NT (Now go to the NF forums and leave us geniuses alone *Snooty Nose-Turn*) Honestly, intelligence is a measure of how well you can comprehend information, retain information, as well as retain comprehension of said information. Also, get a wide vocabulary, and everyone but the hyper-cynical jerks will think you're some kind of genius. Also, the reason why INFs probably have a higher intelligence than ENTs is because Is are more likely to be bookworm hermits (For some reason or another) and that helps. Then again, that's like min/maxing stats.

 

[JHBowden]

How can an NT be stupid?

Below is Bill O'Reilly versus Leonard Peikoff. O'Reilly is an ESTJ, Peikoff is an ENTJ. Indeed, it takes a special kind of intelligence to make Bill O'Reilly look like the reasonable party. [YOUTUBE="JoAWCwm-UXw"]ESTJ and ENTJ[/YOUTUBE]I'm not saying that ESTJs are smarter than ENTJs. I could have done the same thing with Noam Chomsky (INTP) comparing America unfavorably to Nazi Germany, or Hitchens (INTJ) and Dawkins (INTJ) clamoring to arrest the Pope. Silliness, I tell you, silliness! This is the occupational hazard of being an NT-- building an abstract architecture of ideas and arrogantly, and even fanatically, defending it like one's child. There's not enough feeling to give other perspectives their due weight, and there's not enough sensation to notice the contingencies involved in our life situations.

 

[Jaguar]

Enough of that video. I can't stand the torture.

 

[simulatedworld]

Hitchens (INTJ)

How is he not ENTP?

 

[lunalum]

Read Einstein's school reports.
It is all there.

What school reports are you referring to? I have read a lot of them, and the only thing it seems to indicate to me is that his earlier teachers greatly underestimated his abilities.

 

[The Decline]

By being overly focused on minute details without looking at the bigger picture. Context can screw you over.

 

[Oaky]

Hmmm, we see it all the time. NTs getting deluded by their own minds sometimes believing the bizarre thoughts that end up in their heads. There are also those NTs who put up a little identification assumptions for people they meet within seconds and when others act the same they would label them straight into a certain identification by their own minds. As in what is analysed could contradict to the actual reality of it. In other words NTs may frequently stereotype. Not very smart at all.

There are the Ni/Te users who try a look for a meaning in something when there is no meaning behind it and they just waste their time trying to analyse something non-existant.

Then the Ne/Ti users who think up strange abstract theories and sometimes go around spouting what they believe as truth thus showing themselves quite intelligent when in actuality what they believe may not be true at all.

 

[JHBowden]

How is he not ENTP?

As long as he is NT the principle stands.

Specifically though, Hitchens in interviews tends to have a closed posture with his hands together, with a low tone of voice. He strikes me as inflexible as far as getting along socially goes. Hitchens also systematizes his thoughts-- like trying to make his positions on Iraq and Vietnam consistent, though it is a faux systematization. His temperament is more dogmatic than skeptical.

Those are my impressions, though I could very well be wrong, especially since English spoken by the British always sounds authoritative to the American ear. A more questionable case for me happens to be Patrick Stewart-- he is frequently listed as ENTJ, though he may be a good candidate for ENTP. What do you think?

 

[tcda]

There is an admirable economy to questions that provide their own answer.

lol

 

[THE ORACLE OF APATHY]

dumb NT = shitty senator

NTs can be famously stupid. The only person who would notice and care would be another NT. An NF wouldn't care. SP wouldn't notice or care. SJ would care but not notice.

These are the checks and balances that keep the types balanced, like the US government.

NT-senate
NF-executive
SJ-judiciary
SP-house of reps

And, much like a filibustering, drunken senator, the stupid NT will be quite sure of every gnarled dollop of wisdom that plunks from their lips.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

The title of this thread reminds me of a saying I heard once: "You can't outsmart an idiot...they'll always find a way around you."

 

[Amethyst]

I'm your proof, no need to search any longer!