[NT] Any NTs relationship savvy?

[goodgrief]

It always takes people ages to know me and me them. I get all anxious about relationships because I often say mean or presumptuous things unintentionally, but then don't say things I should say. I always tend to doubt my relationships as well. When I'd known my INTP friend for about a year, we got on really well. I wanted him to do something, Ican't remember, and I said
"It's your duty as.." and then I hesitated and said something random and duty implying. He then jokingly said
"Oh so I'm not good enough to be considered a friend yet" so I joked
"Nah." back. I was just so clueless I didn't even know whether he would consider me one yet.

So basically, I am totally clueless of what many others think of me and I often screw up jokes and just random conversations. You guys had any similar experience?

 

[Oaky]

I've dealt with this before. I have somewhat the same problem...

 

[Zarathustra]

Well, this sounds more INTJ-specific, than NT-related.

I don't really know how to help you in this regard.

We are a different breed, and, depending on how well you fit the archetype, how old you are, and how innate these categories really are, some things about you will likely never change.

But some things can.

Learning social skills is not an easy lesson, and, if you really are an INTJ, and the theory holds true so that Fe is very low on your functional usage, then you have to figure out how to socialize via other functions, namely your strengths.

- That being said, Ni is not the best function for socializing. That's what makes you say the weird things that others don't understand. This can be honed, though. Namely, by...

- Te. You can use your Te to figure out how it is that social dynamics work. I recommend reading up on the topic. It will give you a framework through which you might be able to better understand what's going on in front of you, and why people behave the way they do.

- Fi. Being in touch with your own inner feelings is important. This is not Fe, and it's in your tertiary spot, so not only is it not necessarily intended for public consumption (as it's much more self-oriented than Fe), but you're probably not that adept at using it in the first place. However, when others can sense a deep, mature emotional life within you, they can at least see you as something other than an emotionless robot (note: I have well developed Fi, and, depending on the circumstance, this can still happen to me; the issue is that we guard our tertiary Fi, and only let it out with people we trust, or in just the right moment when the situation calls for it, so, yeah...).

- Lastly, Se. This is a tough one, as it's your inferior, so I don't think you'll ever have nearly a good a grasp of it as the first three functions. However, I can sometimes switch into this mode and become extremely outgoing and gregarious (it generally occurs when just the right mix of really wanting to go out for the night, being in good company, and just the right amount of inebriation, take place).

- Those are your primary tools (the other ones might be back there too and manifest in your shadow, but let's not go there for the sake of this conversation). If you really wanna improve your social skills, I suggest you take a Te-based approach by learning the dynamics of social interaction via both reading and experience, learn to hone your Ni (via Te and Fi) so that you can recognize the random shit it comes up with that you should not say (if you want the social interaction to proceed apace) as well as the shit that you should say (this is where that reading and experience will come in handy), learn to use and develop your Fi so that you're a more mature well-rounded emotionally health human being and learn to reveal that side of yourself (when appropriate), and try to figure out how to shift into Se usage a bit when socializing (trust me, it can be fun [I have just a number of occasions a year like this, maybe 5-10, and they're always fun as hell).

I know that's a big pill to swallow, but, if you're serious about improving your social skills as an INTJ, coming from a rather sociable one (who, nevertheless, still has to deal with many of the typical INTJ issues), know that it can be done, and that the above advice is probably the best way you can approach the issue.

 

[tcda]

I had some good INTJ friends, and I can tell you what things about them drained me:

- "Saying wierd things that people don't understand" as Z above said - ok when you're bored, but not so much fun if at a party and your friend just says these obliviously in front of people and then looks to you to get the joke.

- Not letting a train of thought go until hamemred out ocmpeltely to a logical conclusion and consensus - self-explanatory - also especially draining at a social occassion when done in front of other people

- Scrutinizing your behaviour for inconsistencies/deficiencies (and thinking this is "friendly")- an INTP will do this when a matter of principle is touched on, my INTJ friends just do it as a matter of course and it really drains even me, so imagine what it does to non NT's.

- Reading a hidden meaning into everything you say - obviously Ni.

Hope that helps.

 

[Johnfloyd6675]

- Scrutinizing your behaviour for inconsistencies/deficiencies (and thinking this is "friendly")- an INTP will do this when a matter of principle is touched on, my INTJ friends just do it as a matter of course and it really drains even me, so imagine what it does to non NT's.

I did that to my INTJ friend once. Pointed out that he was very fat. Never went after me again. That's how you deal with INTJs. Sudden movements!

- Reading a hidden meaning into everything you say - obviously Ni.

They're very aware, though, that NTs, especially ENTs, have gnatlike attention spans, they've been known to believe that they are themselves the shiznit, and the taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalking that comes out of our mouths drives INTs up the wall and across the ceiling. That's why I suspect that INTJ consciousness in a room with an ENFP, ENTP, and ENTJ consists of hummingbird-fast prosecution of the intuitives in the INTJ head. I think they do deeply envy the swagger, the ability to get yourself to say "I'm in fucking charge here, who the fuck are you?" to some random stranger, sober, and get cheered because the stranger was apparently creepy; the INTJ chassis is a little light to be driving off the course and running into strangers like that. But they envy our victories. I do, however, think that they truly believe that they're better than most people, particularly extraverted intuitives. Their minds are these delicate castles built out of memory and judgement, and ENTs exist to win some sort of glory or validation from the world. That is the last thing an INTJ needs.

 

[goodgrief]

I have a huge attention span when it comes to something I care about paying attention too. That's a reason my friends irritate me sometimes. They never remember a lot of what is said but I hang on their every word and can easily recall conversations days or more later. Or were you talking about all other NT types. It was a bit of a confusing post.

 

[Coriolis]

It always takes people ages to know me and me them. I get all anxious about relationships because I often say mean or presumptuous things unintentionally, but then don't say things I should say. I always tend to doubt my relationships as well.

So basically, I am totally clueless of what many others think of me and I often screw up jokes and just random conversations. You guys had any similar experience?

Zarathustra's comments are right on the money. In fact, I often rely on the Te-based approach, largely because of how I was raised. I have internalized many small scripts of the form, "when someone does/says A, you do/say B". This serves well for superficial, top-level, or introductory social interactions: job interviews, staying on good terms with the neighbors, dealing with store clerks and bureaucrats, etc. It lacks depth, however, since I am acting by rote rather than by feeling or even intuiting what should be done. Of course, I can generalize from the set of scripts to handle new situations, but it is still superficial. To go beyond this to a more meaningful interaction, I must resort to being myself, with all the potential risks. This is fine, since I rarely want a deeper interaction, and when I have decided that I do, I am willing to take that risk.

Zarathustra may be more proficient with the use of Te in a broader variety of interactions. That I am not is probably due to the fact that I have not chosen to exercise it beyond the limits described above. I learned early on that it was not worth pursuing deeper interactions, or actual relationships, with most people, and so did not bother to extend my use of Te into such situations. I also learned that those few people with whom I could develop a satisfying relationship (friendly, romantic, or collegial) would accept me as I am.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Hmm, is this just friendly relationships? I'm awful at those, because I don't care enough to cultivate them, and get bored very easily in most common interactions, though that just be a result of my friend choice. I think I'm a good SO though.