[Ne] Einstein and Extraverted Intuition

[Maha Raj]

Reading about intuition I found this statement at greenwikilight.

Einstein summarised the Extraverted Intuition standpoint best when he said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

Could anyone explain whether or not Einstein's statement is in disfavor with Extraverted Intuition?

 

[INTJMom]

I like Einstein... which attracted me to your post.

I read what Ben wrote about Extraverted Intuition, and I can relate!! That is exactly how I operate when I meet new people. I observe them, try to guess their MBTI and continue adjusting my hypothesis as new information emerges.

So what Einstein said makes sense in an Ne way because what he was saying is that Ne keeps changing its hypothesis as new information becomes available. If you do something, and it doesn't work, you have just gained new information. You should adjust your approach slightly, based on your new information, and try again. It doesn't makes sense to keep doing the same wrong thing over and over again. It's another way of saying we should learn from our mistakes.

Why are you asking?


Welcome to the forum, by the way! :hi:

 

[wildcat]

Reading about intuition I found this statement at greenwikilight.

Einstein summarised the Extraverted Intuition standpoint best when he said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

Could anyone explain whether or not Einstein's statement is in disfavor with Extraverted Intuition?

Does the theory of the inflation bar the constant?
No.
Does the constant bar the inflation theory?
No.

The biggest mistake, eh?
No.

 

[MerkW]

Reading about intuition I found this statement at greenwikilight.

Einstein summarised the Extraverted Intuition standpoint best when he said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

Could anyone explain whether or not Einstein's statement is in disfavor with Extraverted Intuition?

It seems to me, at least, that the statement that Einstein made is in favor of Extraverted Intuition. Someone who favors extraverted intuition would try to do things in a manner different from usual. Albert Einstein himself was probably an INTP or an ENTP.

P.S. Contrary to what is usually listed, I don't think Thomas Edison favored Extraverted Intuition at all. My guess for him is ExTJ.

 

[Athenian200]

Reading about intuition I found this statement at greenwikilight.

Einstein summarised the Extraverted Intuition standpoint best when he said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

Could anyone explain whether or not Einstein's statement is in disfavor with Extraverted Intuition?

It seems more like a criticism of extreme Si, to me. So I guess it's in agreement with Ne. He's usually typed as xNTP, so it seems like a reasonable guess.

 

[Totenkindly]

Essentially, Einstein had ideas about the nature of reality - theories. (Ti)

He would test these theories to see what was probable and to explore patterns in the outer world. (Ne)

The results were sent back inside to modify the internal model, if necessary, or to give it more firmness than before.

Yes, it's more a criticism of Si dominance, here...

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Einstein has always been the patron of INTPs to me.

I'd have serious doubts about him being an Extravert. The rest is pretty obvious, too. I think he's one of the most easily typed figures of fame.

 

[Maha Raj]

So what Einstein said makes sense in an Ne way because what he was saying is that Ne keeps changing its hypothesis as new information becomes available. If you do something, and it doesn't work, you have just gained new information. You should adjust your approach slightly, based on your new information, and try again. It doesn't makes sense to keep doing the same wrong thing over and over again. It's another way of saying we should learn from our mistakes.

Why are you asking?


Welcome to the forum, by the way! :hi:

I was thinking in a different way that the word "same thing" means "same job" that is being repeated. A person with Ne will do the same job over and over again until he/she gets the right result. So I thought Einstein was saying "doing the same 'job' over and over again and expecting a different result is insane." which made me think that he is against Ne.

But then you made it clear. The "same thing" means "same way". Therefore, Einstein’s statement is logically correct as well as in favor with Ne because Ne do continuously change the "way" they do thing to get the right result.

It's a good lesson for me. I learned that misinterpretation leads to disagree with other people's statements when I think their statement doesn't logically make sense.

Thanks (INTJ)Mom.

 

[INTJMom]

I was thinking in a different way that the word "same thing" means "same job" that is being repeated. A person with Ne will do the same job over and over again until he/she gets the right result. So I thought Einstein was saying "doing the same 'job' over and over again and expecting a different result is insane." which made me think that he is against Ne.

But then you made it clear. The "same thing" means "same way". Therefore, Einstein’s statement is logically correct as well as in favor with Ne because Ne do continuously change the "way" they do thing to get the right result.

It's a good lesson for me. I learned that misinterpretation leads to disagree with other people's statements when I think their statement doesn't logically make sense.

Thanks (INTJ)Mom.

You are quite welcome, my dear.

 

[Oberon]

Einstein has always been the patron of INTPs to me.

I'd have serious doubts about him being an Extravert. The rest is pretty obvious, too. I think he's one of the most easily typed figures of fame.

Well, except for his idea of nailing C to the frame of reference. That was a totally new-and-different idea, really a serious intuitive leap. That sort of thing isn't generally typical of INTPs.

That idea wasn't just thinking outside the box--it redefined the box.

 

[MerkW]

Well, except for his idea of nailing C to the frame of reference. That was a totally new-and-different idea, really a serious intuitive leap. That sort of thing isn't generally typical of INTPs.

That idea wasn't just thinking outside the box--it redefined the box.

Such is typical for xNxPs (and also xNxJs, in fact) in general. If you have read any biographies about Einstein, you will know that there is an extremely slim chance that Einstein was an extrovert.

 

[Hypomanic]

Reading about intuition I found this statement at greenwikilight.

Einstein summarised the Extraverted Intuition standpoint best when he said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

Could anyone explain whether or not Einstein's statement is in disfavor with Extraverted Intuition?

No, it's in favor of it. Ne is doing something different. Si is being traditional. He was actually disfavoring Si in that statement, from a MBTI perspective.

 

[Maha Raj]

No, it's in favor of it. Ne is doing something different. Si is being traditional. He was actually disfavoring Si in that statement, from a MBTI perspective.

You are right. Si being traditional and unwilling to change, comes close to the characteristics of OCD.

There are many great people with Ne than Einstein himself. For example, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Edison, Alexander the great, Socrates.

I personally believe that ENTPs are more likely to develop psychological problems such as OCD, which i personally had and treated with Paxil. Ne with OCD is definitely insane because they will do the same thing again again without logically thinking (introverted thinking). But you see, ENTPs have Ti as their second most used function (or sometimes they use is even more of it, when they are isolated themselves). Therefore, they will get rid of their stupid, illogical lifestyle on the run.

I think people with Ne are most likely to get stuck with some psychological problems such as OCD.

Also people with Ne are most likely to be extraverted throughout their life than developing "introverted" functions such as introverted feelings and introverted sensation. I think it depends of their "wealth". For example, born-rich ENTPs are les likely to develop "introverted functions" than born-poor ENTPs. When born-poor- ENTPs are less successful, they will change the way they approach things in order to be successful; therefore they spend time developing "introverted functions", isolating themselves and learning self-development skills.

All of the above ENTPs, I named in the first sentence except ATG, are born-poor ENTPs. Howard Huges (The movie Aviator) could be an example of born-rich ENTPs.

(P.S I've heard Einstein himself had OCD. May be his statement is self-descriptive.)

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, except for his idea of nailing C to the frame of reference. That was a totally new-and-different idea, really a serious intuitive leap. That sort of thing isn't generally typical of INTPs. That idea wasn't just thinking outside the box--it redefined the box.

That's why we look at the whole person, not just one function use, to determine type.

Redefining boxes is more Ni, in any case. Ne is rather like following the lines of possibility out to their reasonable potential conclusions. It creates a string of connections like Christmas lights, each light dependent upon the prior one; and if a light goes out, the string is broken. Ni meanwhile throws the whole string of lights in the trash (because lights are arbitrary) and hangs up a stream of garlands instead.

Ni and Ne are not mutually exclusive -- if you develop one, the other can develop as well (a little to a lot, depending on the person and situation) -- but they are just different ways of perceiving.

Also people with Ne are most likely to be extraverted throughout their life than developing "introverted" functions such as introverted feelings and introverted sensation. I think it depends of their "wealth". For example, born-rich ENTPs are les likely to develop "introverted functions" than born-poor ENTPs. When born-poor- ENTPs are less successful, they will change the way they approach things in order to be successful; therefore they spend time developing "introverted functions", isolating themselves and learning self-development skills.

I think that is very possible -- a logical idea of how Ne is liable to play out based on environmental influences. In general, we follow the path of least resistance and develop traits as we need to.

(P.S I've heard Einstein himself had OCD. May be his statement is self-descriptive.)

I hadn't heard that, although I have heard that his reading skills were slow to develop (or, at the least, he was a lot smarter inside his head than people recognized from the outside, for a long time). And I know he got his theory first, then had to do the math after the fact (as an annoyance) to "prove it" to others.

I don't know about ENTPs and OCD. Usually OCD is used to refer to the need for high (and usually superfluous) levels of organizational and predictability in order to avoid anxiety, isn't it? The intensity/compulsions of the ENTP tend to be more hedonistic, where they avoid anxiety by indulgence and sensory stimulation. This is not really labeled OCD, is it? It's usually hedonistic/addictive-style behavior?

 

[Oberon]

I can tell you for certain, this ENTP is by no means addicted to arbitrary order.

 

[Maha Raj]

I don't know about ENTPs and OCD. Usually OCD is used to refer to the need for high (and usually superfluous) levels of organizational and predictability in order to avoid anxiety, isn't it? The intensity/compulsions of the ENTP tend to be more hedonistic, where they avoid anxiety by indulgence and sensory stimulation. This is not really labeled OCD, is it? It's usually hedonistic/addictive-style behavior?

ESTPs are Hedonistic. ENTPs are anxious when it’s comes to Hedonistic behaviors because; ENTPs want some kind of stability for pleasure. For ENTPs, Hedonistic behaviors don’t seem to be stable, because an ENTP can see through it. Obviously, being an extravert we ENTPs say or do politically correct things that we don't believe in for fear of losing the company of our friends. But it doesn’t mean we are Hedonistic. We don't have the right word to express what we feel, but we feel it (intuitively). So lacking the words, we simply agree to politically correct things, or make politically correct jokes.

OCD is also described as “seeing through things”. Like thinking that unattractive things could be unhealthy, so we tend to be very picky about them. Continuously, isolating ourselves from social contacts, because, we think it’s a waste of time. Eating or drinking same types of food for very long time, thinking that we won’t enjoy as much with other types of food. Either being frugal or getting obsessed with using all the opportunities we come across before it is too late.

 

[Totenkindly]

OCD is also described as "seeing through things." Like thinking that unattractive things could be unhealthy, so we tend to be very picky about them. Continuously, isolating ourselves from social contacts, because, we think it’s a waste of time. Eating or drinking same types of food for very long time, thinking that we won’t enjoy as much with other types of food. Either being frugal or getting obsessed with using all the opportunities we come across before it is too late.

I haven't really observed that level of reclusive-ness in the average ENTP.

And the "pickiness" is something I see more in INTP than ENTP... the self-preservationist and always picking the "best choice" contributes to some INTPs being picky eaters who do not want to branch out and try something they might actually like but just always want the MOST favorite food. Ne as a primary contributes to more exploration; the ENTPs I know tend to like to try many different things, especially with food. They like sampling, know of all the variations, and enjoy the sensate experience. (And yes, I'm sure about the "N" function they possess, they are definitely not ESTPs.)

 

[Maha Raj]

I haven't really observed that level of reclusive-ness in the average ENTP.

And the "pickiness" is something I see more in INTP than ENTP... the self-preservationist and always picking the "best choice" contributes to some INTPs being picky eaters who do not want to branch out and try something they might actually like but just always want the MOST favorite food. Ne as a primary contributes to more exploration; the ENTPs I know tend to like to try many different things, especially with food. They like sampling, know of all the variations, and enjoy the sensate experience. (And yes, I'm sure about the "N" function they possess, they are definitely not ESTPs.)

What you say makes sense. But how long are we gonna explore with food when we intuitively develop the ability to guess the taste of the food without even trying it. Then we become picky right? Its our "Introverted Thinking" that makes us be picky. Both ENTP and INTP have that. We are little easy on it than INTPs.

 

[Totenkindly]

What you say makes sense. But how long are we gonna explore with food when we intuitively develop the ability to guess the taste of the food without even trying it. Then we become picky right? Its our "Introverted Thinking" that makes us be picky. Both ENTP and INTP have that. We are little easy on it than INTPs.

Yes, the Ne contributes to the desire to try new things, the Ti tries to weed things out prior to experiencing them, based on past experience. The more "adventurous" INTPs in their physical lives, I think focus more on their Ne and gathering information. The notably pickier ones seemed to let the Ti reign over their lives when younger.

So I would guess that we would see the same sort of inclinations in ENTPs as well.

 

[Maha Raj]

Yes. If my new wife is cooking, I won’t be picky until I try all the foods she can cook. After a year or something, I may become picky. I will probably try happily any new changes she makes to her cooking, but if she sticks to her same style, I think I will be picky and ask her to make those foods I like the most.

Same goes for sex. ;-)