[Ti] What is Ti to you?

[Chaolioe]

I know it sounds silly, but could some of you explain to me how Ti either is, or at least functions within yourself?
I'm having a Ti/Fi dilemna. I believe I'm a feeler, but now I feel like my bias in my descriptions has made me come across as a feeler.
Whenever I have Ti v. Fi explained to me, I normally feel like I relate to both.

So, I figure the thinkers can tell me all about it, and maybe I'll figure it out for myself.
Maybe.

 

[INTPness]

I know it sounds silly, but could some of you explain to me how Ti either is, or at least functions within yourself?
I'm having a Ti/Fi dilemna. I believe I'm a feeler, but now I feel like my bias in my descriptions has made me come across as a feeler.
Whenever I have Ti v. Fi explained to me, I normally feel like I relate to both.

So, I figure the thinkers can tell me all about it, and maybe I'll figure it out for myself.
Maybe.

For me, Ti in it's most raw and true form (it can get unhealthy if not tamed) is locking the doors of my apartment and intensely learning, exploring, analyzing, creating, and/or breaking down information in order to learn as much as possible about the given subject. In it's raw and true form, I can do this from the time I wake up until I'm too tired to keep my eyes open anymore. Then I can wake up the next morning and do it all over again. When in this mode, I am almost completely oblivious as to what is going on outside of my apartment. I'm just devouring and inhaling information and it just feels so natural.

There's much more to it than that - like how Ti operates in social settings, etc. But, being an introverted function Ti is, to some extent, designed for solitude.

 

[INTPness]

Some Ti activities might be:

-Teaching yourself how to play guitar
-Learning everything you can about Astronomy
-reading all the works of C.S. Lewis
-trying to get a firm grasp on how genetics works
-learning how to program and write computer code
-trying to understand why historic military commanders made the decisions they made

If Ti is fully engaged, these things can be learned at a very quick pace.

Fi, I'm assuming would be similar but it's more value-based and people-friendly, where as the above examples are just more about conquering (for lack of a better word) a subject.

 

[Chaolioe]

You broke that down very nicely, thank you.
I do participate in behaviors like that, but never to a degree in which I will follow through.
Because I love music, I will pick up a guitar and figure out how to read tabs--- and then I will go google random things, such as "things you didn't know you didn't know" because I can't focus on a single task for too long.
You've actually helped me quite a lot with this issue before, and are probably the best at showing me the Ti in myself that others often see.
Maybe I straddle T/F a little too severely and there in lies my trouble?
I feel the drive to know and understand everything, strongly, but it isn't something I can follow through on.
It's hard for me to take those things and look at the value/people- based versions of what they might be, though, to see which I relate to more strongly.

 

[INTPness]

You broke that down very nicely, thank you.
I do participate in behaviors like that, but never to a degree in which I will follow through.
Because I love music, I will pick up a guitar and figure out how to read tabs--- and then I will go google random things, such as "things you didn't know you didn't know" because I can't focus on a single task for too long.
You've actually helped me quite a lot with this issue before, and are probably the best at showing me the Ti in myself that others often see.
Maybe I straddle T/F a little too severely and there in lies my trouble?
I feel the drive to know and understand everything, strongly, but it isn't something I can follow through on.
It's hard for me to take those things and look at the value/people- based versions of what they might be, though, to see which I relate to more strongly.

Um, well, INTP's have that "P" in us too, so not following through can be something we battle. I hate to make statements like, "we never follow through" or "we are incapable of sticking to something for more than 3 or 4 years", because to buy into such nonsense is just silly. But, let's just say that your typical INTP does battle with these kinds of issues.

Some have described INTP's as a sort of "jack of all trades", but master of none. I've also heard it said that we only learn things to the point of being competent - once we've learned enough about a subject that it's "good enough", we don't really care about learning too much more about it.

So, the fact that you bounce around (Ne) and don't always want to follow through (P) - those things all seem to coexist within the INTP temperament.

We generally want to learn about everything.

As for the INFP version of things, Fi seems to be a difficult thing for people to explain and provide examples of, but I seem to think of it as thinking more with your heart (Fi) rather than your head (Ti). Perhaps it could be said that INFP's (I'm painting with VERY broad strokes here) would do better in the arts and humanities while INTP's would do better in the hard sciences. F is more relationship-oriented and idealistic, while T is more about systems and resources and tends to be more objective.

Another very general statement that may help you decide whether you are more Ti or Fi is that NF's tend to desire a "soul mate", while NT's tend to desire a "mind mate".

It's quite possible that you are fairly balanced between F and T, in which case you will be able to relate to both. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Shimmy]

-Teaching yourself how to play guitar
-Learning everything you can about Astronomy
-reading all the works of C.S. Lewis
-trying to get a firm grasp on how genetics works
-learning how to program and write computer code
-trying to understand why historic military commanders made the decisions they made

Crossed of the list! I'm definitely more Ti than Fi.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Functions are more orientations of the mind, than a list of traits. The point of functions is to allow for the entire range of human behavior and ability, but to outline different mental justifications and steps for doing so.

Type does not equal traits. Type is more descriptive of how you perceive and judge your world.

Ti:

Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed.

And for comparison, Fi:

It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words. As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in. There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life’s situations. We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, “Sometimes, some things just have to be said.” On the other hand, most of the time this process works “in private” and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the “essence” of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.

I'm not even a fan of these definitions, but they're okay. Functions orient our attentions to specific qualities of data, and evaluate based on certain qualities of judgment. Ability is NOT the realm of functions.

 

[VagrantFarce]

Whenever I have Ti v. Fi explained to me, I normally feel like I relate to both.

They're fairly similar, in that both are about tracking some measure of experiential coherence (try saying that ten times in a row!) - they enable you to morph and change with reality and circumstance, as a way of organising and "making sense" of things while still being able to respond to chaotic or unpredictable events (often, to observers, in an equally chaotic way!).

Ultimately, the difference is in what is being cohered: Fi makes apparent the emotional needs that give rise to things, whereas Ti makes apparent the "rulesets" or "systems" that give rise to things. Both are involved in analytical and experiential circumstances, and may even come to similar conclusions when asked the same question, but ultimately they do not share the same focus. One is emotionally-attached, the other is emotionally-detached, yet both are utterly holistic and internal.

I hope that's easy enough for you to digest.

(Now I want to brand "experiential coherence" into my forehead, my god that's good)

 

[Chaolioe]

Aha. I figured posting in the NT forum would get me the best answers =)

It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words

That hit me really hard, because I will often be driven mad to the point of tearing at my hair and wanting to scream because I will be upset over the fact that no matter how hard I try to explain things because "My mind works in pictures, not words". It's one of the single most frustrating things in the world and I end up having to Ne all my "thoughts" into abstract analogies which I use to draw the pictures for other people.

And I think the one thing that turns me away from Ti the most is the world analyze. I... don't do it. I love learning and yes, I will go out and explore things and try to learn more.. but I can't analyze for the life of me.
In fact.. this thread sort of proves that. It's sort of me saying "Hey NTs, want to analyze something then spoon feed it to me?". And you are doing so successfully, and I appreciate it. Keep the good info coming.

 

[Rainne]

Ti, I think, is exploring and analyzing everything you can about an object or an idea, breaking down and reconstructing the pieces. Then you apply this knowledge to assemble, fix or improve on something.

You basically want to learn what makes it 'tick'.

 

[Shimmy]

Aha. I figured posting in the NT forum would get me the best answers =)

Aha. I figured posting in the NT forum would get me the best answers =)


That hit me really hard, because I will often be driven mad to the point of tearing at my hair and wanting to scream because I will be upset over the fact that no matter how hard I try to explain things because "My mind works in pictures, not words". It's one of the single most frustrating things in the world and I end up having to Ne all my "thoughts" into abstract analogies which I use to draw the pictures for other people.

And I think the one thing that turns me away from Ti the most is the world analyze. I... don't do it. I love learning and yes, I will go out and explore things and try to learn more.. but I can't analyze for the life of me.
In fact.. this thread sort of proves that. It's sort of me saying "Hey NTs, want to analyze something then spoon feed it to me?". And you are doing so successfully, and I appreciate it. Keep the good info coming.

Having said those things, you come across as an INTP to me. The quest for knowledge and wanting to figure things out seems like a typical Ti thing to do. You're definitely analysing a lot, It maybe self-projecting though. I obviously don't know what you are like in real life and therefore can't tell you what type you are.

 

[Chaolioe]

does it apply to people as well?

 

[JHBowden]

What is Ti to you?

It is after la, but before do.

 

[Chaolioe]

Shimmy- it may be. Close friends of mine say I strongly reflect both type descriptions. Those who have emotional problems or rough lives lean towards INFP, those who don't lean towards INTP. Maybe I am thinking. Someone on these forums suggested even possible ENTP. Whether extroverted or not, I have an intensely strong Ne...

I don't mean to seem too forward in anyway, but would chit chatting with me in some way help you at all?

 

[Chaolioe]

JHBowden--You win at life kthnx.

 

[Seymour]

I think INFPs are also often motivated to understand and analyze things, but their motivation is subtly different. I notice that my motivation tends to fade the farther things get away from the human sphere. So, something in the purely logical realm interests me less after a certain point. (I say this as a programmer whose underlying work motivation is still about helping people on some level, so clearly the relationship to deeper values can be indirect.)

I think as INFPs learn, on some level they may ask "what does this mean in relation to me and my values" or "how does this deepen my understanding of myself and human nature." It isn't always conscious, but it does seem like there is a running thread of awareness evaluating information in terms of inner values and the definition of self.

That isn't to say INTPs don't study human nature and aren't interested in themselves, but to me it feels as though their process of understanding tends to be more detached from themselves. While they tend to have idiosyncratic logical systems, there's a clear understanding that the system is not the person. Hence, even though they will defend their systems, they tend to feel less personally attacked than INFPs when their output is critiqued.

 

[Chaolioe]

Seymour- That was also extremely helpful. I find most of the things I truly, truly analyze are psychological theories and myself. I want to know every facet and flaw of humanity- it thrills me.
My career path is actually veterinary care-- which I'll explain so that more of myself can be exposed and maybe it will help you guys more...
As a kid I always ended up liking animals better than people. This was because as an outcast with a working single mother, I had few people to depend on. My confidants were limited to my older brother and my black lab. So on days when my brother would leave me alone in the front yard because I was too slow, or too silly, or too much of a girl to follow along, the only thing I had to relate to was my dog.
And she was loyal.
From that alone, I learned something-- animals are expressive, they are caring, they know whether you are sad or excited and they will join you in these feelings. Dogs will lick tears off your face, and they will lay by you and protect you while you sleep. Animals, I've found, were all the things I wanted people to be: loyal, compassionate, protective, loving, genuine. I've never witnessed a malevolent act or act of coercion or manipulation by an animal. Even when they do act violent, it is due to some provocation. I feel it is unfair that these most genuine of things are voiceless, and often abused. My heart goes out to them, so my interest in helping them for the entirety of my life is my desire to protect something I view as perfect. The fact that I could spend my days saving lives of companions to people and therefor pleasing the people is rather secondary but still positive.

 

[INTPness]

animals are expressive, they are caring, they know whether you are sad or excited and they will join you in these feelings. Dogs will lick tears off your face, and they will lay by you and protect you while you sleep. Animals, I've found, were all the things I wanted people to be: loyal, compassionate, protective, loving, genuine. I've never witnessed a malevolent act or act of coercion or manipulation by an animal. Even when they do act violent, it is due to some provocation. I feel it is unfair that these most genuine of things are voiceless, and often abused. My heart goes out to them, so my interest in helping them for the entirety of my life is my desire to protect something I view as perfect. The fact that I could spend my days saving lives of companions to people and therefor pleasing the people is rather secondary but still positive.

INFP
/thread

 

[visaisahero]

^I concur.

Also, VagrantFarce: I am SO forming a math rock band just so I can name it Experiential Coherence

 

[Chaolioe]

Thank you both ^.^ I feel rather fulfilled now.

And I approve of that band name, though I'm sure it made no difference to you. =D