[INTP] INTP emotional maturity and cheating

[Uytuun]

Uytuun suggested that INTJs can handle this kind of admission and that it might not be a big deal.

INTJs deal better with the truth than you think they do. Better to tell them an unpleasant truth than drop them in the fog. They can work with unpleasant truths in understanding ways.

Well, you need to see what I said in the context of the extreme behaviour described in the post I replied to. I didn't mean to give the impression that INTJs are on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Or imply that they wouldn't be completely devastated by the news and react emotionally or lash out in some form, feel fundamentally hurt. But from what I've observed (and my remark went way beyond this cheating situation) we prefer to face difficulty (and its consequences) rather than avoid it. We're more geared towards solving the situation (possibly dissolving in this case) and we do tend to have a capacity for empathy. Both are helpful in (emotional) crisis situations.

I find it difficult to see how withholding information can be constructive in this situation. Avoiding hurt and trying to preserve the relationship are not (necessarily) the same as constructive IMO.

 

[Unique]

If you don't have a ring it don't mean a thing.

Don't worry, its just sex, all is forgiven...just don't tell your SO.

Edit: and don't tell your friends because they will just turn around and tell your SO. There is a saying that gos "silence is golden"

I was waiting for the "jk" or "just kidding" part in the post, then I realized you were serious and lost what little faith I had in humanity left

Just kidding, I have no faith in humanity

 

[leonidas1986]

I've just started an "affair" with an Entp

First post ( INTP )

I can be quite flirtatious when i'm out...it seems i'm either on fire or I ain't. I think it's got to do with knowing that other women are interested that gives an INTP the strengths when flirting that they shouldn't naturally have- given their nature. .I reckon when a intp is unsure of another girls intention or attraction they will withdraw and know not what to do.

In the 8 years I've been with my girlfriend, ( I'm 24) I've never cheated nor had sex with another woman. For most of this time I have even upheld high ideals about honour and would never have seen myself actually having an affair. The fact that I don't feel guilty whatsoever or remorseful is strange- even for me-..but I reckon I know why this is.

So !!!...I met this girl one night and immediately was attracted. I gave her those deep eyes (the only way an INTP can flirt if you ask me) but was not outspoken about her beauty. She was more outspoken because my mate was trying his best and I think a sense of urgency took her over. Also being ENFP she's a bit sassy.

We danced and eventually I kissed her. It was sweet and we exchanged numbers. While this has happened before the next day I knew I would meet her again. And I did. And we talked a lot ...a lot about politics and philosophy and the finer things in life I usually find so difficult to make a two way conversation of. AND we had sex. Although we didn't plan it, this has happened three times in the last week. It happens after we talk a lot and I reckon in a way that's a medium we both feel more comfortable expressing ourselves ( we both seem equally affectionate and child like).

I can relate to a lot of different points of views on this forum and the ways in which INTPs work and so on, and I think they are valid. However I know personally why I did what I did. It was and is an interesting experience and logically I may ( but recognise I probably won't) spend a better life with her. At the very least it is an experience which i've never had, which is a natural and justifiable as anything else in the world. My girlfriend is lovely but not very challenging. This girl would be more challenging but probably not as nice in the long run

As the man said "Go on, enjoy yourself. Life is but a once-around". This wasn't a selfish act but a natural act.

INTP's need challenges and new experiences to keep them happy.

 

[Salomé]

This wasn't a selfish act but a natural act.

INTP's need challenges and new experiences to keep them happy.

I've heard some far-out rationalizations in my time but this one is a classic.

I hope I never cheat. I think the damage it does to one's ability to reason is perhaps even worse than the damage it does to one's character...

 

[Tallulah]

I've heard some far-out rationalizations in my time but this one is a classic.

I hope I never cheat. I think the damage it does to one's ability to reason is perhaps even worse than the damage it does to one's character...

Right? It's one thing to cheat. That's bad enough. But own up to the fact that you're cheating. It's not a natural thing. It's a cowardly thing.

If the gf is lovely but not challenging, break up with her. You're not doing her any favors.

 

[Synarch]

Right? It's one thing to cheat. That's bad enough. But own up to the fact that you're cheating. It's not a natural thing. It's a cowardly thing.

One must acknowledge the feelings and desires one has. But cheating can be a result of this original repression in the context of a relationship. So, it seems rather illogical to expect anything other than more repression of feeling and honesty. Know what I mean?

 

[Tallulah]

One must acknowledge the feelings and desires one has. But cheating can be a result of this original repression in the context of a relationship. So, it seems rather illogical to expect anything other than more repression of feeling and honesty. Know what I mean?

Do you mean that the something lacking in the relationship facilitated the cheating and repression of honesty about feeling? Or that the perpetrator has a tendency to repress his feelings in the first place, so why would we expect any different?

When I was younger and didn't quite understand the emotional effect cheating has on the other party (even emotional cheating or sharing a kiss with someone else, etc), I would have been tempted to frame it as, "well, I just didn't know what I was missing, and had to explore this connection, etc." But when you are a fully-fledged adult, you know going in that you're causing pain to someone else by indulging in a selfish act. That is a decision you're making. To rationalize away in any way, rather than dealing with the problems in the current relationship, is an act of pure selfishness. And to hide behind the INTP type description to justify that behavior is extremely distasteful.

 

[Kra]

As the man said "Go on, enjoy yourself. Life is but a once-around". This wasn't a selfish act but a natural act.

INTP's need challenges and new experiences to keep them happy.

Just keep in mind that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and it may affect more than you (which it certainly does in this case).

Whatever you do, be willing to accept the consequences. That honor that you mentioned early is something that's not so easy to re-acquire.

 

[Synarch]

Do you mean that the something lacking in the relationship facilitated the cheating and repression of honesty about feeling? Or that the perpetrator has a tendency to repress his feelings in the first place, so why would we expect any different?

Both. For example, cheating often represents the end of the relationship "as it is". And often, it ends a relationship in fact. I think people repress the desire to leave out of fear. And, a repressed person is more likely to be susceptible to attraction because repression causes one to be vulnerable to the action of submerged needs. The submerged needs seize opportunities and the mind forms justifications after the fact.

When I was younger and didn't quite understand the emotional effect cheating has on the other party (even emotional cheating or sharing a kiss with someone else, etc), I would have been tempted to frame it as, "well, I just didn't know what I was missing, and had to explore this connection, etc." But when you are a fully-fledged adult, you know going in that you're causing pain to someone else by indulging in a selfish act. That is a decision you're making. To rationalize away in any way, rather than dealing with the problems in the current relationship, is an act of pure selfishness. And to hide behind the INTP type description to justify that behavior is extremely distasteful.

It could be a selfish act or a self-denying act. In many cases, it looks like a self-denying act.

 

[Totenkindly]

... when you are a fully-fledged adult, you know going in that you're causing pain to someone else by indulging in a selfish act. That is a decision you're making. To rationalize away in any way, rather than dealing with the problems in the current relationship, is an act of pure selfishness. And to hide behind the INTP type description to justify that behavior is extremely distasteful.

That.

If you're not sure how you should feel about it, it's easy to resolve: Share the news with your girlfriend for the past eight years, and her response will clarify whether or not you should feel okay about it and whether your relationship can survive your decision to go boldly out there and explore strange new worlds involving other women. Very simple.

... cheating often represents the end of the relationship "as it is". And often, it ends a relationship in fact. I think people repress the desire to leave out of fear. And, a repressed person is more likely to be susceptible to attraction because repression causes one to be vulnerable to the action of submerged needs. The submerged needs seize opportunities and the mind forms justifications after the fact.

Regardless of "psychological analysis," like I said, the solution is simple.
Come clean, put the cards on the table, and move on from there.

The only way to get over not having cajones is to grow a pair, and that doesn't happen by screwing around behind your LTR's back.

Right now, he's dealing with his shit at his girlfriend's expense. I had to deal with this sort of cowardice too in myself, so I don't feel like I'm being too harsh. Far too typical reticence in INTPs to be afraid to give up relational security and thus have their lives destabilized, so they just explore in secret to avoid losing control of the situation ...and while strategically it serves the needs of the INTP, it totally violates the trust of the other person.

EDIT: ... this should probably be in its own thread, but maybe we're seeing a need to have a thread for INTPs and cheating.

 

[Synarch]

Just keep in mind that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and it may affect more than you (which it certainly does in this case).

Again, I think this is the action of the submerged needs at work. Consequences go out the window when you give in to repressed emotion.

 

[Tallulah]

Both. For example, cheating often represents the end of the relationship "as it is". And often, it ends a relationship in fact. I think people repress the desire to leave out of fear. And, a repressed person is more likely to be susceptible to attraction because repression causes one to be vulnerable to the action of submerged needs. The submerged needs seize opportunities and the mind forms justifications after the fact.

It could be a selfish act or a self-denying act. In many cases, it looks like a self-denying act.

Ah, good thoughts...something to chew on.

Heaven knows there is probably a repressed-needs obstacle course in the mind of many a young INTP.

Edit: I guess my major problem is, at a certain point, the truth needs to be acknowledged. Even by the repressed. Even by the young and immature. When does it end?

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I would imagine merely bringing this up to your significant other would cause distress. Tricky situation. I have no words of advice.

 

[Synarch]

Ah, good thoughts...something to chew on.

Heaven knows there is probably a repressed-needs obstacle course in the mind of many a young INTP.

Edit: I guess my major problem is, at a certain point, the truth needs to be acknowledged. Even by the repressed. Even by the young and immature. When does it end?

What is the truth? It's an elusive creature.

 

[Synarch]

Ah, good thoughts...something to chew on.

Heaven knows there is probably a repressed-needs obstacle course in the mind of many a young INTP.

Edit: I guess my major problem is, at a certain point, the truth needs to be acknowledged. Even by the repressed. Even by the young and immature. When does it end?

Also, consider this. That guy is stayed faithful for 8 fucking years. That's not your run-of-the-mill pussy-chasing dirtbag.

 

[Tallulah]

What is the truth? It's an elusive creature.

I'm not getting into framing this is a million different ways to make excuses for someone who cheats. Some things DO need to be absolute. I'm not getting into a relationship with someone who is thinking, "I'm totally faithful to you. Unless a, b, or c happens, and then we will redefine what cheating really means in the context of our relationship." Most people can agree on what constitutes cheating. There may be a psychological reason for the cheating, but the consequences are usually the same. The emotional consequences for the other party don't alter because you can frame it in a bunch of different ways.

Also, consider this. That guy is stayed faithful for 8 fucking years. That's not your run-of-the-mill pussy-chasing dirtbag.

True. But if the new girl made him realize that his gf of 8 years was a nice girl but ultimately unsatisfying and unchallenging, he needs to finish that business first. Not have a fling and then reevaluate whether he wants to continue the emotionally altered relationship with the meh girl. Also, 8 years is a lot of time for the girlfriend to develop trust in him.

Not saying he is a dirtbag, but I think he's doing a lot of justification and rationalization here, and not considering the depth of pain he is causing the gf.

 

[Synarch]

I'm not getting into framing this is a million different ways to make excuses for someone who cheats. Some things DO need to be absolute. I'm not getting into a relationship with someone who is thinking, "I'm totally faithful to you. Unless a, b, or c happens, and then we will redefine what cheating really means in the context of our relationship." Most people can agree on what constitutes cheating. There may be a psychological reason for the cheating, but the consequences are usually the same. The emotional consequences for the other party don't alter because you can frame it in a bunch of different ways.

That's logical and I agree.

True. But if the new girl made him realize that his gf of 8 years was a nice girl but ultimately unsatisfying and unchallenging, he needs to finish that business first. Not have a fling and then reevaluate whether he wants to continue the emotionally altered relationship with the meh girl. Also, 8 years is a lot of time for the girlfriend to develop trust in him.

Not saying he is a dirtbag, but I think he's doing a lot of justification and rationalization here, and not considering the depth of pain he is causing the gf.

That's true, too. But, he honestly sounds too young to really know what he's doing.

 

[Totenkindly]

Also, consider this. That guy is stayed faithful for 8 fucking years.

That was the claim.

That's not your run-of-the-mill pussy-chasing dirtbag.

That wasn't the point.


I'm not in this to create an accurate "moral view" of this guy and decide whether he was justified, what pressures he was under, whether he could have done worse, yada yada yada. This isn't a psych profile and we're not therapists.

The gist is that, if you do this shit, you're going to deep-six your relationship. It's also unfair to your partner. What, you think it matters if you say, "I was faithful eight years and only waited until now to have sex 3 times with someone I only met just once before, so you should cut me some slack... obviously I feel trapped but have never been able to say it!" Yeah. I'm sure that will keep everything from blowing up and preventing her from feeling devastated.

The only rational thing for him to do, if he plans to continue this path, is talk to her about it.

If what you say is true, they need to talk about it and decide why things have soured so much and decide together whether their relationship should continue. Maybe they NEED to break up, and this is the catalyst.

If what you say is false, they need to talk about it so she has the ability to know what she's dealing with and decide whether SHE wants to continue.

Pragmatically, that's what has to happen next, and if he doesn't talk to her, it's certainly not for her benefit, it's for his. Boo.

he honestly sounds too young to really know what he's doing.

Then it's a good thing he posted here, so us old farts who already made the same mistakes can knock some sense into him.

 

[INTP]

I've heard some far-out rationalizations in my time but this one is a classic.

this

 

[thescientist]

First post ( INTP )

As the man said "Go on, enjoy yourself. Life is but a once-around". This wasn't a selfish act but a natural act.

Interesting that your first post is a complete and unwarranted justification of your cheating. Sounds like you're just trying to convince yourself.

INTP's need challenges and new experiences to keep them happy.

Even more interesting...in order to maintain your "happiness" you have to destroy someone else's. If that isn't selfish, I don't know what is.

A coward is what you are for not ENDING the relationship before engaging in something with someone else, and for not admitting to your MISTAKES.

This is what I would love to see played out: You fall in love with the woman of your dreams. She is the one you want to spend the rest of your life with. Eventually, you're just not challenging enough for her. So she goes fucks some guy's brains out. According to your assumptions, you have no right to feel upset about it, because it was just a NATURAL thing right? RIGHT?

Give me an effing break.