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[NT] Don't get women at all

Litvyak

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most guys I think are happy with someone they find to be nice as a person, fairly attractive (relative to the guy in question), and of a similair intelligence level to themselves. Simple...almost primitive I guess you could say. :tongue:

You don't possibly believe this, do you?
 

Salomé

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For example: I come across quite cold and self-assured. Certain kinds of owmen find this attractive. But then, they want you to be somethign else too. But then, if you were to become something else, they'd no longer be interested, for example.
Hmm. Kinda like the whole virgin/whore thing? Oh no, men aren't demanding at all. They only want women to embody completely contradictory archetypes at the same time!
Then they complain that we are contradictory!
I'm so glad men are such reasonable creatures. :p

So, we're making progress: women want 1.) someone driven and with direction in their life,
2.) emotional intelligence.
Not every woman wants that. Some want more, some want less, some want different things altogether.
 

burymecloser

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It's just a fact I'm afraid. I'm not a misogynist, rationally I believe in feminism. But with real life women, I just, don't get 'em.

I mean don't get me wrong, I know how to "pull" (as we say in Landan Town) etc. - I just find it pathetic the way that by acting in a way that I find annoying/transparent, I can "pull", whereas by acting in a way I find genuinely admirable, I wouldn't. So it's not that I don't know the rules, I just don't get them.

So a few questions:

1.) Why is it that women will pretend to want a nice guy etc., but really are fascinated by you if you are an asshole, and will harrass you to show a "human" side, but then, soon get bored once you have shown it (or at least, if you don't turn it off very quickly).

2.) Leading on from that, why be annoyed by arrogance when this is what attracted you in the first place, and when there were plenty of non-arrogant guys who like you, who you could go for, but don't.

3.) Why demand the hypocrisy that someone be "ambitious" or an "alpha male" in more general terms, but that they not be an asshole, when clearly, the two can't be seprated (by definition, climbing above other people, means taking advantage of situations for your benefit at their expense, i.e., being an asshole)? So why do we have to play some game of denying assholery while at the very same time taking a shit on everyone else?

Actually those 3 questions are probably all the same, but whatever. :D
Maybe women really want someone who's mature, empathetic, and not bitter. Maybe they want someone who doesn't assume that they're all the same or feel like a martyr in an unfair world. Maybe -- crazy idea -- they all want something a little different, and there's a good match out there whether you eventually view them respectfully or not.
 

nomadic

mountain surfing
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you can do the nice guy routine in a genuine way as long as you are dating and messing around/sleeping with multiple women...

you might wonder how it is possible for a nice guy to date multiple women... uh... but in case you haven't noticed. genuinely nice women date multiple guys at the same time too, its just that they don't lie and lead them on in a dishonest way. so you can be a nice guy and just don't be dishonest about what you are feeling.

so if you are dating around and still be a nice guy, you can be genuine to yourself, and still be a challenge enough to her to keep her mentally wet.
 

tcda

psicobolche
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Hmm. Kinda like the whole virgin/whore thing? Oh no, men aren't demanding at all. They only want women to embody completely contradictory archetypes at the same time!
Then they complain that we are contradictory!

Good point.

I was in a bad mood when I made this thread and apologize for making a sweeping generalization. It's a shame this board doesn't have Rants and Raves subforum.;)
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
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Yah, women are nothing but trouble! Now excuse me, I am going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it.
 

Lady_X

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ThatsWhatHeSaid

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It's just a fact I'm afraid. I'm not a misogynist, rationally I believe in feminism. But with real life women, I just, don't get 'em.

I mean don't get me wrong, I know how to "pull"

At first I thought you were talking about masturbating. Anyway...

1.) Why is it that women will pretend to want a nice guy etc., but really are fascinated by you if you are an asshole, and will harrass you to show a "human" side, but then, soon get bored once you have shown it (or at least, if you don't turn it off very quickly).

I'll give you my take. And this should be applicable to a majority of women and men, but certainly not all.

I think people operate from two different places when it comes to relationships. Part of their mind is looking for a compatible mate that is stable. The other part is biologically and automatically drawn to dominance. A guy who's a dismissive asshole suggests that he has something special that he doesn't want to waste on you, thereby creating an illusion of superiority that triggers the "get-the-dominant" psychological circuit/software. It makes the girl (and actually, it works both ways, not just girl --> guy) want to qualify herself and establish herself as worthy and equal, if not superior. How does she do that? By either elevating her own status (status displays) or denigrating the dominant (humanizing him). Once she's succeeded in establishing her worth, the guy is no longer dominant, and the program is terminated. (My apologies for the Matrix-y jargon.)

2.) Leading on from that, why be annoyed by arrogance when this is what attracted you in the first place, and when there were plenty of non-arrogant guys who like you, who you could go for, but don't.

Non-arrogant or just plain pussies? I suspect that a guy who's assertive and at ease is the ultimate catch because he triggers the get-the-dominant circuit without being threatening, and without disqualifying himself from candidacy for life-mate either. There are plenty of women who go for guys who aren't arrogant but who are still assertive and have integrity.

3.) Why demand the hypocrisy that someone be "ambitious" or an "alpha male" in more general terms, but that they not be an asshole, when clearly, the two can't be seprated (by definition, climbing above other people, means taking advantage of situations for your benefit at their expense, i.e., being an asshole)? So why do we have to play some game of denying assholery while at the very same time taking a shit on everyone else?

I agree that some alphas are assholes, but you can be assertive and not be an asshole.

One possibility is that by "alpha" these people are talking about "assertive" males. Another possibility is that they're confused and you're right -- they don't appreciate the complete personality of an alpha. A third possibility is that they're talking about 2 separate guys that fulfill both categories of "life partner" and "dominant." As I said before, I think people operate from 2 places and produce separate lists of desirable qualities. Those lists can become conflated.
 

yenom

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Join the club.

9326-bigthumbnail.jpg
 

Randomnity

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A) you're looking in the wrong place if that's what you're finding

B) you need to stop reading those awful "pick up girls" sites. they make you feel like you understand women, but they actually prevent you from looking at women like real people and getting to know them. make some female friends without trying to sleep with them, that should help.

C) maybe the "good" women can sense this attitude from you and that's why they aren't interested in such a nice guy :rolleyes:
 

tcda

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B) you need to stop reading those awful "pick up girls" sites.

I don't.

make some female friends without trying to sleep with them, that should help.

I do.


Again this just makes me realize how easy it is to post something on the internet that gives a completely different picture from what you meant to say. :s

I've got women friends and I've had serious relationships...when I said I don't get women, I meant it in that context. :p Actually I'll just repost an earlier post which explains it (though it's already been dealt with):

This makes me think that maybe I really don't express myself well, at all. I was never complainging "Why do women go for assholes?"...! This was never at all the point of my post!

OOOOOOOOOKKKKK

When I say "asshole", I don't mean Stiffler.

For example: I come across quite cold and self-assured. Certain kinds of owmen find this attractive. But then, they want you to be somethign else too. But then, if you were to become something else, they'd no longer be interested, for example.

This is just one example. Please can I clarify then: When I say "asshole" I do not mean high school bully, and when I say "women who like assholes", I don't mean a cheerleader who dates the quarter back.

Rather I am exaggerating personality traits in order to portray things. "Simplify the rhyme just to amplify the noise" as Eminem said. :tongue:
 

Salomé

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Amplified noise is a good description of this thread.

If you want specific answers, maybe you need to give specific examples of where you think this has happened? It may just be that you are doing something assholish that you can change. This would be a good thing, since changing yourself is, I would venture, an easier exercise than changing "all women". ;)
 

Bubbles

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I've read this whole thread and I'm still unsure about what the OP is asking us to answer. :unsure:
 

Lady_X

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he thinks women are attracted to the very thing that later repels them...he thinks we're contradictory confusing creatures...but...he's just seeing it wrong. :)
 

hermeticdancer

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I don't.



I do.


Again this just makes me realize how easy it is to post something on the internet that gives a completely different picture from what you meant to say. :s

I've got women friends and I've had serious relationships...when I said I don't get women, I meant it in that context. :p Actually I'll just repost an earlier post which explains it (though it's already been dealt with):

The real question is... OP is what makes you ask this question?

Why are you asking this question in the first place, there must be a reason behind it... Who didn't you understand?
The reason, you are going around and around, is because you are not being specific, and telling your story about previous relationship confusion. You are making generalizations. It is the internet, and you want to remain anonymous, but more details would help to understand your situation. Everything is vague, right now...

If you feel uncomfortable, maybe do it in a private message?
 

tcda

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Yeah I have issues with communication at times, I've realized. :tongue: especially online.

I appreciate what you are saying. For now though I'll put the miscommunication down as my fault, and move on from it. :)
 

hermeticdancer

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1.) Why is it that women will pretend to want a nice guy etc., but really are fascinated by you if you are an asshole, and will harrass you to show a "human" side, but then, soon get bored once you have shown it (or at least, if you don't turn it off very quickly).

:D

What do you think?

Honestly is seems like a passive aggressive, rhetorical question to me...

getting some frustrations out?
 

hermeticdancer

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So where do I find a woman who likes coldness wrapped up in a superiority complex? :tongue:

Joking...but yes, this reply makes a lot of sense.

So, we're making progress: women want 1.) someone driven and with direction in their life,
2.) emotional intelligence.

Now ok, I'll admit my own shortcomings happilly, but, that's a lot to ask for!

For a man that's baffling you see, most guys I think are happy with someone they find to be nice as a person, fairly attractive (relative to the guy in question), and of a similair intelligence level to themselves. Simple...almost primitive I guess you could say. :tongue:

I feel like I am having a converstaion with myself, but that is ok.

Ambition, and sensitivity, yes... I desire those things in a man. I think you are on to something. It is a lot to ask for. However. I would use the language...
I would buffer the extremes. Not an alpha male, nor an asshole, boss type, dictator, dominant, captain, Business Owner, Entrepreneur... Any extreme kind of types are very eccentric, and have difficulty pair bonding.. Think on a continuum, shades of Grey, less extreme. When a man like this has gotten older or slowed down, maybe, but now way when he is young,
-This is a man of testosterone, cerebral intelligence, and adrenalin. This scares me, because I feel he is insatiable and will eat me alive, I can't meet his needs, and he will burn me out, or trade me in for a younger hottie. What I am is attracted to is the idea of procreating with this man, but having a relationship with this "asshole" is a no go. see...

for long term, staying with the children and providing for them, (that being the evolutionary point Im basing this off of) For the long term, I want a man who is able to support me, and understand me. That does take listening skills, and like you say, EQ, or emotional intelligence. I would like that, and know men have it, not just for me, but for my children, so they have that bond of the family. That emotional connection would make me feel secure so that he would not stray, and leave the family...

That combination, idealy makes sense. Just someone who is ambitious and kind. ENFJ's, ESFJ's are that way. An INTJ, can be very loyal, and loving, maybe you just haven't had a good role model, or feel uncomfortable being vulnerable and expressing them. You have to ask for help sometimes, and not be alone...

It almost like, the kind of man you have sex with, and the kind of man you marry...

I don't know where the INTJ falls into that category, but that's not my problem.
 
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