[NT] Prove yourself

[fill]

It isn't really a conscious decision. I don't go 'Haha, watch me BS this guy into giving me my way'... I just kind of pull coherent knowledge out of God-knows-where, having somehow understood it or heard it at some point,

Yeah, this is a lot how I work. Except I will consciously bullshit people, but it's pretty apparent (usually) what I'm doing. If they don't catch it, they'll soon learn to hate me, finding it hard to tell whether or not I'm serious when I say something. But - hey, where would the smoke detector be without fires? And where would the bullshit detector be without lies?

Think of the first person that told a lie; the victims had to be fucked.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I don't ever feel like I'm bullshitting someone, unless it's obviously for funs sake and has some jokes, one liners, puns and whatnot in them. But any other time I'm never bullshitting. And if I seem to be bullshitting, then that's the loss of the listener. Because they either didn't get the joke, or don't understand a thing I say.

 

[simulatedworld]

"The only difference between genius and insanity is success"

Why should the world take the NT intellectual as seriously as they take themselves? Use objective, real-world (sensor) benchmarks.

You're asking why Sensors should take NTs as seriously as NTs take themselves?

They shouldn't, and they won't. If they did, they'd be Ns themselves. They naturally evaluate according to S-oriented criteria, so the advantages of being N to them don't seem as good as the advantages of being S.

You're asking for an explanation of the value of NT types in S terms, which is impossible. You've already defined the answer with the way you set up the premise.

If you want to understand the value in NTs, you need to think in NT terms, not insist that we explain ourselves to you in S terms.

Thing is about being an NT is that you know you could be doing a lot more a lot better. I know myself seeing what perfection could be makes me see how I am not there.

Striving to do better and reach toward perfection doesn't really have anything to do with type. That's not a uniquely NT property.

Your continual insistence on appearing NT is a manifestation of dominant Se's desire to make an impact and gain the respect of others by being a reflection of whatever traits the surrounding culture considers interesting, impressive, and worthy of attention and admiration. On this forum, it's cool to be NT, so Se motivates you to try and appear that way, to a much greater degree than you consciously realize.

Some people say fuck it that isn't what they are about anyway, some people (like myself) just keep working harder or trying to find new ways.

"Just keep going at it, stay active and keep finding new ways of doing whatever seems to make the biggest impact at the time" = ESTP mantra. (Te, on the other hand, would lead us more toward forming a step-by-step plan and knowing exactly how everything is going to go before we actively engage ourselves.)

Constantly staying active, scanning for and adapting instinctively to new opportunities as they unfold is characteristically ExxP.

 

[Jaguar]

The simplest proof I can conjour is as follows. I think. What thinks exists; for to doubt this is itself to think. Therefore, I exist.

If you want to paraphrase the words of René Descartes, at least give him credit in your post.

 

[thisGuy]

If you want to paraphrase the words of René Descartes, at least give him credit in your post.

what if he arrived there on his own...why should he give credit to Descartes then

 

[Jaguar]

what if he arrived there on his own...why should he give credit to Descartes then

HAHAHA. Fucking ridiculous.

 

[thisGuy]

HAHAHA. Fucking ridiculous.

think you meant

"HA. HA. HA. Fucking Ridiculous"...no?

cuz putting a period after 'HAHAHA' is like giving an crackhead less than half a line of coke

 

[visaisahero]

HAHAHA. Fucking ridiculous.

Why so?

 

[Fluffywolf]

for one, it's such a famous quote, I doubt it's possible to say you can reach the same conclusion without consciously or unconsciously be influenced by that.

Secondly, it's pretty much in the exact same wording.

This is the one thing I dislike about living in this age. Pretty much everything has already been said at some time by other people. I know I have the ability to offer the world all sorts of quotes that my Ti provides me with, but seem incapable of offering them to the world with my name written on them and honestly say they originated from me and me alone.

But then again, using that as an arguement, René Descartes pretty much directly or indirectly stole the quote anyways.


Still, it's pretty pointless to debate such an insignificant issue.

 

[foolish heart]

Dad?

lol!

Na. He need only define success.

They shouldn't, and they won't. If they did, they'd be Ns themselves. They naturally evaluate according to S-oriented criteria, so the advantages of being N to them don't seem as good as the advantages of being S.

You're asking for an explanation of the value of NT types in S terms, which is impossible. You've already defined the answer with the way you set up the premise.

If you want to understand the value in NTs, you need to think in NT terms, not insist that we explain ourselves to you in S terms.

A lot of you seem to be missing the point of this exercise, which is to emphasize the biggest hurdle in NT personal development--finding what value the real world and emotions has to offer you.

Because the NT temperament thinks abstractly without concrete or emotional checks and balances, it tends to self-inflict the very state of ignorance it initially sought to avoid. It is those with the deepest desire for truth who will bite into the hook of false knowledge the hardest (SW anyone?) Behind a wall of intellectuality, self-enabling thoughts are allowed to fester and the NT slips further away from the actual truth. As they lose their grasp, pride develops to protect the ego.

The end result is ironic, especially if the NT sees them self as a pedagogue, as others assume competence is the explanation for the intellectually haughtiness and develop misplaced trust in the false ego. They start to replace their accurate (albeit humble) knowledge for lofty theories (perhaps even mimicking them, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all) and the ignorance spreads. This also serves to bolster the NT confidence and usually sealing their fate.


I don't really care how you define success, but attempting to do so in a concrete manner is the first step towards overcoming the vicious cycle of intellectual masturbation and the ignorance it induces. By becoming more receptive to their concrete and emotional nature, the NT becomes a more balanced individual overall, ultimately fueling a greater degree of success through their preferred means.

 

[onemoretime]

"The only difference between genius and insanity is success"

Why should the world take the NT intellectual as seriously as they take themselves? Use objective, real-world (sensor) benchmarks.

Who the fuck said I take myself seriously?

 

[foolish heart]

Who the fuck said I take myself seriously?

Why the fuck are you offended if you dont?

 

[simulatedworld]

I don't see myself as a pedagogue, nor am I among the most intellectual people that I know. I know a decent amount about a few select subjects and that's really it.

In any event, I define success as being happy and feeling accomplished and contended with one's life. That's all there is to it. I don't understand the implication that NTs have no definition of success.

By the way, most of what you're saying about ignoring the real world applies more to NTPs than NTJs. Most NTJs (especially ENTJs) are much more concerned with finding some application for their skills and making money at it.

It's harder for NTPs, but you seem to equate "lofty theories" with the antithesis of "accurate knowledge", which I can't really agree with.

I think the hardest thing for NTPs is figuring out what they want to do with themselves and then sticking with it long enough to see the fruits of their endeavors. Being interested in "lofty theories" doesn't somehow drain an NT of all accurate knowledge. This part just sounds like the standard "grrr abstraction is DUMB!" nonsense that we hear from Ss all the time.

Maybe thinking about those lofty theories is part of what makes us happy? Why does thinking about abstract theory necessitate that we don't have any accurate knowledge?

 

[onemoretime]

Why the fuck are you offended if you dont?

Who said I'm offended? I might just curse a blue streak (which I do).

Speaking of taking himself so seriously:

A lot of you seem to be missing the point of this exercise, which is to emphasize the biggest hurdle in NT personal development--finding what value the real world and emotions has to offer you.

Because the NT temperament thinks abstractly without concrete or emotional checks and balances, it tends to self-inflict the very state of ignorance it initially sought to avoid. It is those with the deepest desire for truth who will bite into the hook of false knowledge the hardest (SW anyone?) Behind a wall of intellectuality, self-enabling thoughts are allowed to fester and the NT slips further away from the actual truth. As they lose their grasp, pride develops to protect the ego.

The end result is ironic, especially if the NT sees them self as a pedagogue, as others assume competence is the explanation for the intellectually haughtiness and develop misplaced trust in the false ego. They start to replace their accurate (albeit humble) knowledge for lofty theories (perhaps even mimicking them, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all) and the ignorance spreads. This also serves to bolster the NT confidence and usually sealing their fate.


I don't really care how you define success, but attempting to do so in a concrete manner is the first step towards overcoming the vicious cycle of intellectual masturbation and the ignorance it induces. By becoming more receptive to their concrete and emotional nature, the NT becomes a more balanced individual overall, ultimately fueling a greater degree of success through their preferred means.

We should just give up and bask in your greatness, o wise one.

 

[Jaguar]

Because the NT temperament thinks abstractly without concrete or emotional checks and balances, it tends to self-inflict the very state of ignorance it initially sought to avoid. It is those with the deepest desire for truth who will bite into the hook of false knowledge the hardest (SW anyone?)

I see you have a hard on for SW.
Go screw with him, and stop assuming the rest of us would write a 40-page essay on the importance of lint.

 

[Night]

A lot of you seem to be missing the point of this exercise, which is to emphasize the biggest hurdle in NT personal development--finding what value the real world and emotions has to offer you.

Why do you assume that the NT misses concrete detail?

If this is a preferential critique, I think it appropriate to remind you that tendency and ability, when scaled with the MBTI as a backdrop, are utterly unrelated terms.

Because the NT temperament thinks abstractly without concrete or emotional checks and balances, it tends to self-inflict the very state of ignorance it initially sought to avoid. It is those with the deepest desire for truth who will bite into the hook of false knowledge the hardest (SW anyone?) Behind a wall of intellectuality, self-enabling thoughts are allowed to fester and the NT slips further away from the actual truth. As they lose their grasp, pride develops to protect the ego.

The end result is ironic, especially if the NT sees them self as a pedagogue, as others assume competence is the explanation for the intellectually haughtiness and develop misplaced trust in the false ego. They start to replace their accurate (albeit humble) knowledge for lofty theories (perhaps even mimicking them, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all) and the ignorance spreads. This also serves to bolster the NT confidence and usually sealing their fate.


I don't really care how you define success, but attempting to do so in a concrete manner is the first step towards overcoming the vicious cycle of intellectual masturbation and the ignorance it induces. By becoming more receptive to their concrete and emotional nature, the NT becomes a more balanced individual overall, ultimately fueling a greater degree of success through their preferred means.

Given the detail of your charge, your projection is either specific to someone you know in person, or it's just an example of unqualified personal exposition. In either case, I don't think it makes much sense to generalize a blanket ideology onto people you've never even met. You're abstracting in a situation that doesn't call for it.

You're guilty of the very thing you seek to educate out of us.

 

[simulatedworld]

I see you have a hard on for SW.
Go screw with him, and stop assuming the rest of us would write a 40-page essay on the importance of lint.

Maybe he's talking about solitarywalker. I could see someone making that argument about either of us.

btw, lint is pretty damn important. You don't even know.

Given the detail of your charge, your projection is either specific to someone you know in person, or it's just an example of unqualified personal exposition. In either case, I don't think it makes much sense to generalize a blanket ideology onto people you've never even met. You're abstracting in a situation that doesn't call for it.

You're guilty of the very thing you seek to educate out of us.

No dude, you're missing the point, and that's that NTs are dumb. Quit using this retarded "abstract terminology" and go back to having no definition of success or any accurate knowledge about anything like all NTs.

 

[Jaguar]

Maybe he's talking about solitarywalker.

I never thought otherwise.

 

[simulatedworld]

I never thought otherwise.

Oh, I figured since it was negative and could potentially be about me, you'd probably interpret it that way if at all possible.

 

[Jaguar]

Oh, I figured since it was negative and could potentially be about me, you'd probably interpret it that way if at all possible.

I knew he wasn't talking about you, since you are not a pretentious windbag.