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[NT] INTP vs INTJ - who is more manipulative?

tcda

psicobolche
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Nov 17, 2009
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intp
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5
both in their "average" states, and in terms of potentiality.

I would have thought an INTJ tends to in an average state to have more wish to manipulate - though they are forced to do so more in terms of "stragically orienting a conversation" rather than through feeling, because their Fi blocks that. This gives them less manipulative potentiality than the Ti-Fe combination of the INTP.
 

highlander

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nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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Hype
Not sure, but I think INTJ manipulation is more transparent.
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
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Okay, I see we're cycling back to NTs in the "Let's poke and prod a type for a month" game. In all fairness, though, an NT started it.

So anyway, as usual, I think all types can be manipulative if they develop poorly. I really didn't know INTX had the stereotype of manipulating people. I just know there's an INTJ stereotype of vindictiveness and an INTP stereotype of...well,....not giving a crap one way or another.
 

highlander

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Actually, I don't think either INTP or INTJ are particularly manipulative types. ENFx are the ones that I think of. They are so damn charming about it. You know they're doing it (not necessarily in a negative sense) but don't really care.
 

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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I've never perceived INTJ or INTP as manipulative as a type. Some PEOPLE are manipulative, but I'm not sure its really related to MBTI. Manipulation can be a form of power/control though, so if either of them may be more likely than the other to want to control their external environment, I'd probably guess INTJ just because if their drive to accomplish things.

In my mind though, I'm more apt to call it 'planning'... which I suppose can be a form of manipulation. I don't deliberately try to manipulate people though. I don't understand them. They're too much of a wild card in my planning so I try not to rely on anyone's actions but my own when 'manipulating' or trying to make something come to fruition.

Really any kind of action that influences the outsome of something can be considered manipulation. What we may be talking about in the OP is malicious manipulation where people are used and thrown away on the quest for something.

I find that kind of behaviour immoral and borderline criminal. I do, however, believe that if you want something to happen... you should try to make it happen.
 

theadoor

*hmmms*
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esfp
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My experience shows INTP, but I think it totally differs from a person to person.
 

Tallulah

Emerging
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Feb 19, 2008
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At times I see places where I could manipulate someone if I wanted (mainly because someone trusts my opinion or sees me as insightful), but I would never choose to take advantage of that situation for my own gain. It's just kind of a point of pride/ethics. I don't think manipulation is an INTP thing, usually. We value our own autonomy too much, and we hate it when others manipulate us. So we don't do it to others.
 

Grungemouse

Widdles in your cream.
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I'm going by the definition of "using peoples natural inclinations for your own personal gain". I'm not certain this is the correct definition, so yeah.

I can be manipulative. But not in a way I consider immoral. For instance, my girlfriend loves to talk about herself. People, in general, love to talk about themselves. I want to get my girlfriend jewelry for her birthday, but I'm not sure what her favourite style is. I know that when I state my own personal opinion on something, she will recite her own personal opinions as well. So to get information out of her, I conjure up a story and say, "I'm thinking of getting a set of earrings. Pick a colour for me." And she responds with a suggestion, along with her own personal opinions. "...Well I love peridot green and..." I then gently ask further questions, subtle enough that I'm not directly asking her. Without realising, she's given me the information I wanted.

Or is that method something else? Either way, I use it when I'm on the prowl for buying gifts.
 

Haight

Doesn't Read Your Posts
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Messages
6,232
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I say that you guys choose an INTP and INTJ and have a manipoff.

Just select some new, unsuspecting S and see who can get over without detection.
 

Matthew_Z

That chalkboard guy
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Manipulative seems to carry a derogation connotation, which would contradict Isabel Myer's philosophy to describe types positively and in terms of their potential
 

Oaky

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When I wish to be manipulative I am. Many INTJs believe they fully understand other people so we believe that we can get out of them what we wish. Whether this is true or not I have gained countless times by use of manipulation though I don't use it often due to self-pride. What I say, the way I say it, what I wear, use of psychology (metaphysics) of colours, use of psychology of body language, use of other's moral values with many other things mixed together to create situations towards my liking. However INTJ men are not usually as skilled at it then INTJ women. They are, to my understanding, much too good at it.
INTPs may be manipulative but they lack the enthusiasm or care to manipulate people. They would only do so in times of great need where they might use mind tricks to help them out. I haven't yet seen an INTP try to be manipulative. They just go with whatever comes to them.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
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both in their "average" states, and in terms of potentiality.

I would have thought an INTJ tends to in an average state to have more wish to manipulate - though they are forced to do so more in terms of "stragically orienting a conversation" rather than through feeling, because their Fi blocks that. This gives them less manipulative potentiality than the Ti-Fe combination of the INTP.


INTJ. Ni/Te knows just how to get what it wants. Ti/Ne knows how to fantasize about what it wants.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
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so/sx
INTJ. Ni/Te knows just how to get what it wants. Ti/Ne knows how to fantasize about what it wants.

Gotcha! Se-Fi likes to sense how auromatic strawberries are. Fe-Si likes to fantasize about how strawberries would taste if he or she did. Te-Si is Borat Sagdiev embodied, yet Si-Te is only a want to be Borat. Ti-Ne can only fantasize about being Solitarywalker, yet Ne-Ti knows how to be solitary walker. There is a thing in the world thats called a type and just like a human being it has feelings, desires, regrets, worries and so on! How it does, or what desires it has, the fuck if I know; but I think I've just had my groundbreaking discovery above! Oh and don't forget, if I am certain type, I must have certain knowledge and qualities such as being manipulative, being smart, or being reflective. So, if I ever get my PhD, I definitely have become a J type, as to get PhD you need to be conscientious and finish things and to be J and to be conscientious mean the same thing!
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
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Gotcha! Se-Fi likes to sense how auromatic strawberries are. Fe-Si likes to fantasize about how strawberries would taste if he or she did. Te-Si is Borat Sagdiev embodied, yet Si-Te is only a want to be Borat. Ti-Ne can only fantasize about being Solitarywalker, yet Ne-Ti knows how to be solitary walker. There is a thing in the world thats called a type and just like a human being it has feelings, desires, regrets, worries and so on! How it does, or what desires it has, the fuck if I know; but I think I've just had my groundbreaking discovery above! Oh and don't forget, if I am certain type, I must have certain knowledge and qualities such as being manipulative, being smart, or being reflective. So, if I ever get my PhD, I definitely have become a J type, as to get PhD you need to be conscientious and finish things and to be J and to be conscientious mean the same thing!

hahahahahhaha. Right! Exacty. So, if you work hard enough and quit the fantasizing maybe some day you will grow into a world dominating INTJ master mind too, cuz, you know, functions change like that.



There is a speck of truth in it, which is why it's funny. :yes:
 
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