[NT] NTPs: Leaders?

[sculpting]

NTPs-

Assuming you work in an organizational structure of some sort and have to follow a leader...

What type would you choose to be a leader?

What sort of organizational structure/management style would you prefer?


I have seen the ENTJ leader-NTP workers model go horrifically wrong as the NTPs would not confront the ENTJ

I am watching issues crop up in the ENFP leader-NTP workers model now

I am also watching an ENTP leader-NTP workers model as well, however he is a suburb ENTP, but is having issues with the ISTJ faction.

 

[JustHer]

Maybe the problem lies in the NTP workers

 

[kelric]

NTPs-

Assuming you work in an organizational structure of some sort and have to follow a leader...

What type would you choose to be a leader?

What sort of organizational structure/management style would you prefer?

To start off, I'm not so sure that my preferences really have much to do with type so much as their management style. My (strong) preference is to work under situations where I'm told what someone wants, and then I'm left alone to do it by myself. Shield me from interruptions, bureaucracy, and paperwork, and just let me focus on a single project to get things done on my own, in my own way. Sounds a bit utopian, but I really do produce more and better results in that situation as well.

I think that any type can have those characteristics in management style... it's all about focusing on letting me get things done as opposed to trying to delegate responsibility but not control ("you're responsible for the results, but you can't make any decisions on how to do the task"). Having said that, what I think of as the traditional "SJ" mindset that is most likely to infuriate me at work. The "make a checklist", "tell me exactly what you're going to do and how, and how long it will take, before you start", and "you must shoehorn your solution into this documented process -- just because that's the way we do things" behaviors anger me to no end.

 

[Valiant]

Maybe the problem lies in the NTP workers

Seconded.

I know NTPs who work well within most/all power structures.
They're often given their much-needed autonomy if they can be trusted.
If they can't do what they're told which is the problem with unhealthy rebellious P-types...
Well, then the problem lies with the NTP.

Personally, I find some of the methods used by NTPs to be very odd...
But I definitely understand the way some works.
I know quite a few. None work in a steady pace, they all kind of sit around recuperating and then spring into action and get things done very fast.
It works really well, and they can handle all sorts of weird crisis scenarios awfully good.
I value that highly, and I don't nag about stuff like that. It's even quite a pleasant way of working, one which I mimic when around NTPs.

I don't believe in NTP upper management at all, though.

1. Not following the procedures of society, thus breaking laws and earning bad reputation.
2. Being too democratic is bad in a company. Listen to people, but don't let them decide for you. Too many cooks makes a toxic effing soup.
3. Organizations don't work well if they're not organized. The leader roll is a lot about organizing and a P in the mix is peeing in the mix.
4. NTPs are just that. Individualists. They are awesome on their own or holding up a tiny group of highly autonomous workers, where leadership is only symbolical.


NTPs fill a huge role already, they don't fit into the leader role though.
Besides, who the hell wants to be a figurehead?

 

[highlander]

NTPs-

Assuming you work in an organizational structure of some sort and have to follow a leader...

What type would you choose to be a leader?

What sort of organizational structure/management style would you prefer?

I have seen the ENTJ leader-NTP workers model go horrifically wrong as the NTPs would not confront the ENTJ

I am watching issues crop up in the ENFP leader-NTP workers model now

I am also watching an ENTP leader-NTP workers model as well, however he is a suburb ENTP, but is having issues with the ISTJ faction.

I've had a lot of different bosses and only had one that I really didn't like. I turned down a promotion because I couldn't stand working for her. I don't think it has anything to do with type at all.

As to what sort of management style I prefer, this may sound strange but I have never really had someone who managed me. I'm pretty independent. The ones that I liked are the ones that were an effective coach or guide, someone who steered me in the right direction and let me go.

 

[tinkerbell]

I've worked in a fair few industries/roles/management strcutres.

I likes stuctures that empower me to do my job without too much red tape, I'm pretty good at navagating organisational potocall, I supect better than a fair few ENTPs.

I like working for N's more,

INTPs/ENTPs let you ahve the sapce to just get on with it, and are usually tremendously supportive from the side lines.

Until recently I've found it inspiring to work with an ENTJ - although it worked out that he was screwing me over the whole time in a hugely manipulative way... I feel a bit bitter and twisted... Not sure that would put me off though.

Thankfully I see a dissporpotion of NT's and to a lesser exten NF's in very senior management in very large organisations.

I like the learership of NF's they can get shit doen without pissing people off, J types have less ability to let people be rather than controlling.

I'd find SP's easier to deal with managerially than SJ's, although in my recent history I'm not doing too badly at beign driven insane by an SJ... I think we are both coping reasonably well..

Ideally - I'd want the people skills of an NF and the mind of an NT

 

[StrawMan]

I don't believe in NTP upper management at all, though.

1. Not following the procedures of society, thus breaking laws and earning bad reputation.
2. Being too democratic is bad in a company. Listen to people, but don't let them decide for you. Too many cooks makes a toxic effing soup.
3. Organizations don't work well if they're not organized. The leader roll is a lot about organizing and a P in the mix is peeing in the mix.
4. NTPs are just that. Individualists. They are awesome on their own or holding up a tiny group of highly autonomous workers, where leadership is only symbolical.

I think you have quite stereotyped view of NTPs there.
1. I don't personally know any real life NTPs, who would not follow laws when working in a corporation. That would be just dumb to get bad image.

2. At least ENTPs will make the decisions they see fit, even when the decisions are not democratic.

3. Micro-managing is not a NTP strength, but NTPs maybe shouldn't be in positions that require a lot of micro-managing.

4. I would say that leading is often mostly holding up a small group of people. Also in large companies I would believe that the CEO is mostly in contact with his closest subordinates. Also, it is not only ExTJ trait to be able to tell people what to do, and check if they have done it.

Personally, I would like to have a mature ExTx boss. Emphasis really more on maturity than type.

 

[thisGuy]

a type of entp...specifically the 7w8 kind works best to be my boss

 

[JocktheMotie]

I can't see an NTP ever wanting to be in a leadership position.

EXXJ would be my natural preference for a leader. I'd tailor my input to accommodate the middle letters.

 

[simulatedworld]

Not very often. Most NTPs I know will only step up to a leadership position if nobody else is willing/able to do it, and they foresee that collapse of the whole project is imminent if nobody does something about it.

And even then they might not even particularly care if the whole project collapses. You can always start a new one.

 

[tinkerbell]

Not very often. Most NTPs I know will only step up to a leadership position if nobody else is willing/able to do it, and they foresee that collapse of the whole project is imminent if nobody does something about it.
And even then they might not even particularly care if the whole project collapses. You can always start a new one.

What makes you think that? It's not something I've ever found in reality, there are a lot of NT leaders - keeping in mind they are a tiny proportion of the population

 

[simulatedworld]

What makes you think that? It's not something I've ever found in reality, there are a lot of NT leaders - keeping in mind they are a tiny proportion of the population

Sure, there are lots of NT leaders. Most of them just also happen to be NTJs.

 

[tinkerbell]

Sure, there are lots of NT leaders. Most of them just also happen to be NTJs.

ewe, not sure where you get that from, fair mix of both actually, I have just come from an organisation where the grade 2s (one grade below director general), in an organisation of 89,000 were ENTP and ENFP's respectively.... Next grade down on our side of the business had 3 INTPs 1 ENTJ, ESTP and an ESTJ, so pretty NT skewed actually.... I've come across a lot of NxP's in senior role sin other organisations who are doing customer operations and Marketing/creative disciplines... and they seem to do VERY well.

In my current role the equivelent role is an ENFP... so it doens't stack up... I don't ahve quant evidence.

One thing I can say, is it really is different in different industries... Advertising and media is full of NF's

Don't worry you can still be a god and have a P-ness

 

[Matthew_Z]

I'd take command and replace all of the NTPs that can't get shit done.

 

[Valiant]

I'd take command and replace all of the NTPs that can't get shit done.

Yeah, but you're special. Good special.

 

[Matthew_Z]

Yeah, but you're special. Good special.

It's a shame some people consider their job to be a right rather than a privilege. Much easier to keep the machine running when that idea goes away.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Seconded.

I know NTPs who work well within most/all power structures.
They're often given their much-needed autonomy if they can be trusted.
If they can't do what they're told which is the problem with unhealthy rebellious P-types...
Well, then the problem lies with the NTP.

Personally, I find some of the methods used by NTPs to be very odd...
But I definitely understand the way some works.
I know quite a few. None work in a steady pace, they all kind of sit around recuperating and then spring into action and get things done very fast.
It works really well, and they can handle all sorts of weird crisis scenarios awfully good.
I value that highly, and I don't nag about stuff like that. It's even quite a pleasant way of working, one which I mimic when around NTPs.

I don't believe in NTP upper management at all, though.

1. Not following the procedures of society, thus breaking laws and earning bad reputation.
2. Being too democratic is bad in a company. Listen to people, but don't let them decide for you. Too many cooks makes a toxic effing soup.
3. Organizations don't work well if they're not organized. The leader roll is a lot about organizing and a P in the mix is peeing in the mix.
4. NTPs are just that. Individualists. They are awesome on their own or holding up a tiny group of highly autonomous workers, where leadership is only symbolical.


NTPs fill a huge role already, they don't fit into the leader role though.
Besides, who the hell wants to be a figurehead?

There is some truth to this.......but not completely.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I've had a lot of different bosses and only had one that I really didn't like. I turned down a promotion because I couldn't stand working for her. I don't think it has anything to do with type at all.

As to what sort of management style I prefer, this may sound strange but I have never really had someone who managed me. I'm pretty independent. The ones that I liked are the ones that were an effective coach or guide, someone who steered me in the right direction and let me go.

That pretty much describes the relationship between myself and an INTJ co-worker who i'm starting up a business with. He has tons of drive, but is generally pretty damn rebellious in his own right, to the point of hacking off his employers. I do my best to steer his desire to burn the place down toward productive ends, and help explain the underlying motives of other human beings. He keeps me on task. It works.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Not very often. Most NTPs I know will only step up to a leadership position if nobody else is willing/able to do it, and they foresee that collapse of the whole project is imminent if nobody does something about it.

And even then they might not even particularly care if the whole project collapses. You can always start a new one.

I've found myself being followed, more than any desire I have had to lead. I just turn around and people seem to be behind me waiting for me to lead the way. I suspect that is what usually happens with ENTPs find themselves in a 'leadership' position.......they certainly never intended it.

 

[Valiant]

It's a shame some people consider their job to be a right rather than a privilege. Much easier to keep the machine running when that idea goes away.

Point.

One that is easily overlooked by spoiled westerners in particular.
Some cultures seem to be somewhat resistant to it... Like Germany, Japan and Finland.
A good work ethic is important as hell. If you get paid to do something, you do it.
It's the results that matters.